A wifes submission to her husband includes obedience

[thesunisout]

Because of our post modern culture, which is leavened with feminism, relativism, and biblical skepticism many Christians doubt that God has given the husband authority over his wife in marriage. It is one of the most politically incorrect issues out there, and there is a vast machinery out there to fight this idea. The spiritual reason it is opposed so loudly is because it is an attack on the heart of the family itself. If you can destroy the order God created you are opening a door for another order to come in and corrupt what God intended. We can see the bad fruit of this with the divorce rate in the church being at an all time high.

I am going to examine three verses which I believe sum up the whole issue:

Ephesians 5:22-24

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything

So, what is this talking about? The first thing that should catch your eye is that the role of the husband is contrasted with the Lord Jesus Christ three times, once per verse. That was shocking to me when I first read it.

How are they contrasted?

In verse 22 wives submit as the church submits to Christ
In verse 23 husbands are the head just as Jesus is the head
In verse 24 wives are to be subject in everything as the church is to the Lord

The difficulty of these passages is not understanding what they are saying, it is believing them contrary to what society has taught you. To see what they mean we just need to ask some basic questions.

How does the church submit to Christ?
What does it mean that Jesus is the head of the church?
How is the church subjected to Christ in everything?

The answer to those questions will tell you exactly how the wife should behave which is the entire key to understanding those scriptures. The ridiculous explanations that people come up with to ignore the obvious here is startling. So, we aren't going to be debating those things in this thread. Instead, I want people to answer those three questions because if we can figure out what they mean then we have the answer. Here they are again:

How does the church submit to Christ?
What does it mean that Jesus is the head of the church?
How is the church subjected to Christ in everything?

Please answer these so we can figure out the role of the wife in a marriage relationship.

 

[thecolorsblend]

It's interesting how some of the most vocal opponents of feminism are feminists. If one believes that women deserve the voting franchise, that person is a feminist by definition.

 

[Not David]

What does "authority" exactly means in a marriage?

 

[thesunisout]

What does "authority" exactly means in a marriage?

It means that there is one head, and not two. God has given the husband authority to make decisions in every area of the marriage, which the wife should abide by. An example would be, the wife wants to make a purchase and the husband vetos it. In this case because the husband has authority the veto is unilateral and the wife cannot overrule it. She can pray and ask God to speak to her husband about it, of course.

If the Lord does not agree with her and at that point the wife decides to disobey her husband and buy what she wanted, she has sinned against the Lord. It is not the husbands job to punish her, although he can certainly bring her to the word and show her the problem. At that point though it is in the Lords hands.

To be a good husband you must have an intimate relationship with the Lord so He can not only teach you how to be one, but also overrule any bad decisions you have made. His authority over us is the check and balance on our authority over our wives. He has corrected me on some decisions, and also in general on my improvement as a husband, but He has also affirmed my decisions as well.

Ideally, you won't have to make many unilateral decisions. If you and your wife are both seeking the Lord you should be able to find agreement on many things. I wouldn't be so quick to make unilateral decisions about any major decision, either. God has provided our wives as helpmates which involves wise counsel. We shouldn't be so quick to overrule the objections of our wives which could be from the Lord. Prayerfully should be a key word in our thinking about this.

That is a basic idea of authority in a marriage, but it also involves spiritual leadership to disciple your wife in the faith.

 

[SkyWriting]

Because of our post modern culture, which is leavened with feminism, relativism, and biblical skepticism many Christians doubt that God has given the husband authority over his wife in marriage.

You are reading a private letter to a particular group of people in a church. If you don't have the writers express permission to reprint this private letter, it may not be legal for you to do so.

Assuming you do have reprint rights:
Any advice inside the letter must be screened to see if it is applicable.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, then,
do to others as you would have them do to you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

So here you can see that "everything" must be screened
so that gender designations are eliminated.

Men must treat women the same as if they were men. In all things.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[redblue22]

What are some commands you would want your wife to obey? Give a few examples.

 

[JackRT]

Since women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and since the bible emerged out of an intensely patriarchal culture, I have no problem at all in ignoring the mistaken patriarchy of some Biblical writers.

 

[Not David]

My issue is that the Bible also said to submit one another out of reverence for Christ, how does that apply to a relationship? Also, remember that a leader has to act like a servant, so I don't think it's Christian-like if a man acts authoritarian, even if he is "the head".

 

[Smidlee]

It means that there is one head, and not two. God has given the husband authority to make decisions in every area of the marriage, which the wife should abide by. An example would be, the wife wants to make a purchase and the husband vetos it. In this case because the husband has authority the veto is unilateral and the wife cannot overrule it. She can pray and ask God to speak to her husband about it, of course.

.

I think this is going to the extreme. The whole idea is not to yolk a oxen and a donkey together. That way the man does not have to exercise authority in every area of a marriage as the more in tune both the man and woman is with Christ the less man need to apply his authority. Since Christian marriage is to be an oath until death there has to be a way to break the tie when the two have a disagreement. This should be rare occasions in a Christian marriage.
The man and woman are supposed to be one.

 

[thesunisout]

What are some commands you would want your wife to obey? Give a few examples.

It's not about commanding my wife, as if she is my servant. It's about the love relationship I have with her, and the authority is there to bring balance and mediation to our lives. Sometimes a final call needs to be made, and the husband has been given the authority to do that. Sometimes we get into unhealthy living situations and corrections need to be made. This is helpful to the wife as well, because as she is submitting herself to Christ and to her husband, she is eager to receive help from the Lord through her husband. The authority is meant to be life giving, not something which hinders but something that helps the wife to grow into the person the Lord created her to be.

 

[thesunisout]

My issue is that the Bible also said to submit one another out of reverence for Christ, how does that apply to a relationship? Also, remember that a leader has to act like a servant, so I don't think it's Christian-like if a man acts authoritarian, even if he is "the head".

I think it applies to this situation greatly, David. A servant leader is not seeking his own but desires to lift up others in the Lord. This should be the attitude of the husband to serve his wife and put her needs before his. Maybe my post seems like that is my argument, but all I am trying to establish is the scriptural basis for the headship of the husband. How that works is an entirely different question. The husband should realize that beyond his authority there are many other commands that should shape his heart in meeting the needs of his wife; the authority itself is not the primary concern of the husband, but loving his wife sacrificially. This must be something the Spirit leads us in as He teaches us to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[thesunisout]

I think this is going to the extreme. The whole idea is not to yolk a oxen and a donkey together. That way the man does not have to exercise authority in every area of a marriage as the more in tune both the man and woman is with Christ the less man need to apply his authority. Since Christian marriage is to be an oath until death there has to be a way to break the tie when the two have a disagreement. This should be rare occasions in a Christian marriage.
The man and woman are supposed to be one.

Amen, I completely agree with you. I am not saying the husband should always be exercising his authority in every area of the marriage, only that God has given him the authority to do that. I am only trying to establish the biblical basis for the authority, not how it should be used. That's a different question but definitely worthy of discussion. However the husband must understand what the nature of the authority is because with authority comes responsibility and accountability to the Lord. Not just for the wrong decisions we have made, but for the good decisions the Lord wanted us to make but we didn't.

 

[SkyWriting]

Because of our post modern culture, which is leavened with feminism, relativism, and biblical skepticism many Christians doubt that God has given the husband authority over his wife in marriage.

If you treat others as you would wish to be treated, then there can be no difference.

 

[redblue22]

It's not about commanding my wife, as if she is my servant. It's about the love relationship I have with her, and the authority is there to bring balance and mediation to our lives. Sometimes a final call needs to be made, and the husband has been given the authority to do that. Sometimes we get into unhealthy living situations and corrections need to be made. This is helpful to the wife as well, because as she is submitting herself to Christ and to her husband, she is eager to receive help from the Lord through her husband. The authority is meant to be life giving, not something which hinders but something that helps the wife to grow into the person the Lord created her to be.

And you see this as different from the other view? What do you think the alternate is?

 

[grasping the after wind]

It's interesting how some of the most vocal opponents of feminism are feminists. If one believes that women deserve the voting franchise, that person is a feminist by definition.

Simply not the case. One can believe in voting rights for women without being a feminist. Some of the definitions of feminism I have heard are simply so vague as to make the term feminist meaningless.

 

[SkyWriting]

Amen, I completely agree with you. I am not saying the husband should always be exercising his authority in every area of the marriage, only that God has given him the authority to do that. I am only trying to establish the biblical basis for the authority...

None.
Treat others as you would have them treat you.
No gender bias.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free,
male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[SkyWriting]

It's interesting how some of the most vocal opponents of feminism are feminists. If one believes that women deserve the voting franchise, that person is a feminist by definition.

Or they don't recognize any gender differences in the voting place.
If you don't acknowledge a difference, then your not a genderist of any type.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So, what is this talking about? The first thing that should catch your eye is that the role of the husband is contrasted with the Lord Jesus Christ three times, once per verse. That was shocking to me when I first read it.

Just as Jesus sacrificed Himself for the Church the husband is to sacrifice himself for the wife and the family. Jesus is an example of the love we are to have. There is teaching in the Mormon church about similitude. The Church or the Bride is to be a similitude of Christ. So the wife is to reflect her husband in as much as he reflects Christ.

Not all women are called to marriage and women can be very different from each other. One women may have 12 kids and devote her life to supporting and taking care of her family. Another women may not be married at all and she could be the CEO of a company. So we need to understand the gifts, talents and abilities that God gives each of us and how very different out calling can be.

 

[Tayla]

Please answer these so we can figure out the role of the wife in a marriage relationship.

The issue of women submitting to men is another cultural topic in the Bible, similar to Paul's mention of hair length and head coverings. Sadly, men have used it to dominate, exploit, and discriminate against women.

 

[mama2one]

I'm ok with it
after all he's smarter than me by about 3 IQ points, he's older by about a yr (so more experience), and he can make decisions whereas am horrible about making decisions and constantly change my mind

so I think will follow husband
most important, he's a Christian