A warning from a mother and father in Indiana

[Handmaid for Jesus]

cosmetic surgery should be reserved for adults over 18

Well, I agree to a point. Unless child is born disfigured in some way...say...a cleft lip, then corrective surgery would be appropriate imho.

 

[Merrill]

Well, I agree to a point. Unless child is born disfigured in some way...say...a cleft lip, then corrective surgery would be appropriate imho.

sure

that is an entirely different situation.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I don't think the dramatic rise in transgenderism among kids is simply a result of more social acceptance

that may play a small part

but there is also the incentives the medical field has in treating these kids (aka money), the widespread promotion of transgenderism by wealthy activists like Jennifer Pritzker, social media influencers, etc.

How does the financial incentive for the doctor work? They'd have to first convince the kid that they are (or might be) transgender in order to pad the bill like that. How does the doctor make that initial connection?

How does Jennifer Pritzker influence kids?

It's wild to me that you think these adults are a bigger influence on kids than their own peers.

 

[rambot]

In fact, for giggles, here IS some reasearch on gender dysphoria.....

Gender dysphoria in childhood | 9 | Gender Dysphoria and Gender Incong

These children show extreme and enduring forms of gender nonconforming/gender variant behaviours, preferences, and interests because they do not identify with their birthassigned gender. Because of the incongruence between their assigned gender and experienced gender, these children may experience clinically significant distress and are consequently often in need of clinical attention

The reason why I included this research and highlighted that portion is so that this "chicken and the egg" scenario can be ended.
Children have gender dymorphia AND because of that, they develop "significant distress".

I mean, I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that any of hte anti-trans people have come even CLOSE to cracking open and taking a look at the WPATH. I mean, it is THE single resource that would alleviate some of their concern but htey choose not to engage with it.


https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1359104510378303

. Both persisters and desisters stated that the changes in their social environment, the anticipated and actual feminization or masculinization of their bodies, and the first experiences of falling in love and sexual attraction had influenced their gender related interests and behaviour, feelings of gender discomfort and gender identification

This is a list of the things that these kids said influenced them.
1) Changes in social environment
2) approach of puberty
3) 1st time falling in love
4) Sexual Attraction
Notice: That is 3 INTERNAL things and 1 external. It's like we have to trust kids to know about themselves.

You know whats NOT on that list:
1) Parents saying "it's a sin"
2) Parents saying "stop it"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1521690X15000160
I've included this to reassure all that not every kid with gender dysmorphia gets the exact same treatment in the same timelines.


Notice:
None of these are completed by political bodies masquerading as health bodies
All of this is published in peer reviewed journals.

 

[rambot]

Your question was, "so how do you explain a 20 fold increase in gender dysphoria among kids in the UK?"
I responded with, "as it becomes more socially acceptable to express these kinds of feelings, more people are going to do so."

In regards to numbers from the UK, I get a bit antsy because the NHS clinic they had set up, I think, was overwhelmed and undersupported and I'm inclined to think that some less that excellent medicine may have been occurring there....
TO BE CLEAR,
1) I have no grounds to think that.
2) It's 1 clinic of hundreds.

Sure there is. I just made it.

Frankly, its kind of a perfect analogy.

 

[RileyG]

That doesn't answer the question. What would you do?

It's too bad that their sex education has been so poor that they fall for it.

I do not have children, but I would not accept trans ideology, regardless.

 

[BCP1928]

I do not have children, but I would not accept trans ideology, regardless.

Still, you are interested enough to criticize (with some justification) the way things are being handled now. What kind of a program would you like to see replace it?

 

[RileyG]

Still, you are interested enough to criticize (with some justification) the way things are being handled now. What kind of a program would you like to see replace it?

What do you mean?

 

[BCP1928]

What do you mean?

There are always going to be LGBT kids in school. If you were running the school, what would your official policy on the matter be?

 

[RileyG]

There are always going to be LGBT kids in school. If you were running the school, what would your official policy on the matter be?

Treat everyone fairly and kindly. It's not hard. That does not mean I have to accept people's choices.

 

[BCP1928]

Treat everyone fairly and kindly. It's not hard. That does not mean I have to accept people's choices.

What do you mean by "accept people's choices?" Choices? Or just feelings about themselves, about who they are? Their feelings are their own, You can think them wise or foolish, and advise them when you think they're wrong. But "accept?" The word doesn't even make any sense in that context.

 

[Merrill]

In fact, for giggles, here IS some reasearch on gender dysphoria.....

Gender dysphoria in childhood | 9 | Gender Dysphoria and Gender Incong

The reason why I included this research and highlighted that portion is so that this "chicken and the egg" scenario can be ended.
Children have gender dymorphia AND because of that, they develop "significant distress".

I mean, I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that any of hte anti-trans people have come even CLOSE to cracking open and taking a look at the WPATH. I mean, it is THE single resource that would alleviate some of their concern but htey choose not to engage with it.


https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1359104510378303

This is a list of the things that these kids said influenced them.
1) Changes in social environment
2) approach of puberty
3) 1st time falling in love
4) Sexual Attraction
Notice: That is 3 INTERNAL things and 1 external. It's like we have to trust kids to know about themselves.

You know whats NOT on that list:
1) Parents saying "it's a sin"
2) Parents saying "stop it"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1521690X15000160
I've included this to reassure all that not every kid with gender dysmorphia gets the exact same treatment in the same timelines.


Notice:
None of these are completed by political bodies masquerading as health bodies
All of this is published in peer reviewed journals.

It sounds like a lot of those kids are simply gay --or lean that way.

and that is another issue altogether

gender dysmorphia is simply another type of body dysmorphia, such as anorexia-nervosa. This can also be seen in men who take massive steroids until they drop dead, because in the mirror, they always look "skinny"

this is a problem with perception and self. If someone imagined himself to be a dog, we wouldn't say "well we need to build you a kennel and start feeding you dog food"! --you would get that person into therapy.

if a girl thinks she is a boy, she is wrong

we don't need "studies" or research to tell us that she is wrong.

 

[probinson]

If someone imagined himself to be a dog, we wouldn't say "well we need to build you a kennel and start feeding you dog food"! --you would get that person into therapy.

But what if the child really believes they are a dog and are distressed by their parents refusing to acknowledge them as Fido?

 

[rambot]

It sounds like a lot of those kids are simply gay --or lean that way.

Ridiculous, this.
1. That is a factually wrong

2. You didn't even look at the studies.

3. You dismissed all that reaearch with a light flick of the wrist.

3. That you felt that your further opinion on this topic was going to be interesting to me after.....

4. You end this post with the classic "we don't need research we got [fill in the blank]".

 

[probinson]

Notice:
None of these are completed by political bodies masquerading as health bodies
All of this is published in peer reviewed journals.

I'm not commenting on these specific studies in this post (because I didn't read them yet) but rather on your comment that simply because this is published in a peer reviewed journal that somehow makes the research more authoritative and/or not prone to bias. In fact, this is nothing more than the logical fallacy of appealing to authority.

One major concern is that peer review has done little to identify failures of scientific rigor (e.g., improper statistics, missing controls, data fabrication, or manipulation, detection of bias) (5, 6). Another issue is that it has revealed institutional, geographic, racial, and gender bias (7, 8)​

​

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.03183-22#:~:text=One%20major%20concern%20is%20that,bias%20(7%2C%208).

​

Then consider this recent study on "The Nonsense Math Effect" in studies. You can read it for yourself at the link below, but the gist of it is two different research papers were submitted to 200 people well-versed in reviewing studies and asked to judge the quality of the research based on the abstract. In 100 of those (randomly selected), a nonsensical mathematical model was added. Specifically it said this:

A mathematical model

is developed to describe sequential effects.​

As you might expect, those with a degree in mathematics saw this for the nonsense that it was. But more interestingly is that those reviewers with degrees in medicine, humanities and social sciences and other fields rated the abstracts with the nonsensical math as being higher quality research just because it had a complex looking mathematical model included. It didn't matter that it was nosense. Its very presence caused the reviewers to rate the quality of the research higher.

The nonsense math effect | Judgment and Decision Making | Cambridge Core

The nonsense math effect - Volume 7 Issue 6

www.cambridge.org

Just because something has been "peer-reviewed" does not validate its methods and/or results, nor does it indicate that the results are not beyond question.

Sorry for the bunny trail. I will comment on these specific studies after I read them.

 

[probinson]

Sorry for the bunny trail. I will comment on these specific studies after I read them.

Well as it turns out, I can't read either of the studies you posted, because they're not freely available. The only thing available for each at the link you posted is the abstract, and so I can't really comment on the methods or the results.

I suspect you didn't actually read the studies either, since they're not freely available to read.

 

[rambot]

I'm not commenting on these specific studies in this post (because I didn't read them yet) but rather on your comment that simply because this is published in a peer reviewed journal that somehow makes the research more authoritative and/or not prone to bias. In fact, this is nothing more than the logical fallacy of appealing to authority.

One major concern is that peer review has done little to identify failures of scientific rigor (e.g., improper statistics, missing controls, data fabrication, or manipulation, detection of bias) (5, 6). Another issue is that it has revealed institutional, geographic, racial, and gender bias (7, 8)​

​

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.03183-22#:~:text=One%20major%20concern%20is%20that,bias%20(7%2C%208).

​

Then consider this recent study on "The Nonsense Math Effect" in studies. You can read it for yourself at the link below, but the gist of it is two different research papers were submitted to 200 people well-versed in reviewing studies and asked to judge the quality of the research based on the abstract. In 100 of those (randomly selected), a nonsensical mathematical model was added. Specifically it said this:

A mathematical model

is developed to describe sequential effects.​

As you might expect, those with a degree in mathematics saw this for the nonsense that it was. But more interestingly is that those reviewers with degrees in medicine, humanities and social sciences and other fields rated the abstracts with the nonsensical math as being higher quality research just because it had a complex looking mathematical model included. It didn't matter that it was nosense. Its very presence caused the reviewers to rate the quality of the research higher.

View attachment 343064

The nonsense math effect | Judgment and Decision Making | Cambridge Core

The nonsense math effect - Volume 7 Issue 6

www.cambridge.org

Just because something has been "peer-reviewed" does not validate its methods and/or results, nor does it indicate that the results are not beyond question.

Sorry for the bunny trail. I will comment on these specific studies after I read them.

You should probably just copy and paste this anytime someone posts peer reviewed work.

 

[SimplyMe]

I haven't made any "presumptions"

but you seem to be making some claims here.

1. That people can be "born in the wrong body". OK, show me empirical proof of that, or what it would even look like, because that is a metaphysical claim

It isn't proven, by any means, at least in part because it is impossible to ethically test in humans. However, animal testing (and even studies done of animals in polluted areas) show that estrogens introduced to a fetal animal can cause the animal to act as if they are the other sex. There are also studies done of transsexual's brains (after death) that find that "sex" portion of their brains are structured opposite the sex of their genitals, even accounting for hormone therapies.

2. That gender dysphoria has nothing to do with upbringing, environment, or underlying neurosis / psychosis. So where does gender-dysphoria come from exactly? Are we going back into metaphysics?

There are countless studies on gender dysphoria --I don't need to start posting them here.

And even if, it could be proved that people are "born in the wrong body", it would STILL be unethical to subject them to sex-reassignment surgery, as it is impossible to change the biological sex of a human being

Transgenderism is ideology. Gender Dysphoria is a disorder.

So, no, based on current research, the evidence suggests that transsexualism is a real, physical condition caused either prior to birth or while still a baby. As has been further pointed out to you, studies further show that trying to "force" transsexuals into "their proper gender roles" and denying they have a real issue leads to other psychological issues and, if left untreated, frequently leads to drug and alcohol abuse (as poor attempts to self-medicate the pain) and suicide. I know enough to say that I don't have the answers for how to treat them for their conditions, it is a very tough thing to deal with. What I will say is that what many Christians here frequently suggest (essentially to "suck it up and act right") is not the right answer, as it merely leads to more issues and wasted lives.

 

[Larniavc]

I haven't made any "presumptions"

but you seem to be making some claims here.

1. That people can be "born in the wrong body". OK, show me empirical proof of that, or what it would even look like, because that is a metaphysical claim
2. That gender dysphoria has nothing to do with upbringing, environment, or underlying neurosis / psychosis. So where does gender-dysphoria come from exactly? Are we going back into metaphysics?

There are countless studies on gender dysphoria --I don't need to start posting them here.

And even if, it could be proved that people are "born in the wrong body", it would STILL be unethical to subject them to sex-reassignment surgery, as it is impossible to change the biological sex of a human being

Transgenderism is ideology. Gender Dysphoria is a disorder.

So no evidence. Well done. The agenda to disenfranchise the non Christian from society is monstrous.

 

[Larniavc]

I do not have children, but I would not accept trans ideology, regardless.

Don’t think that your lack of experience in raise kids from cradle to adulthood might render your view myopic (metaphorically speaking)?