A warning from a mother and father in Indiana

[Yttrium]

The Child in this case was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, parent-child relationship problem, and gender dysphoria. There was also a borderline personality disorder diagnosis.

Without all this, I'd support the parents. With all this, I support the state's decision. At some point the health of the child needs to take priority over the parents' control.

 

[Merrill]

You make a legitimate point. Some kids would use emotional blackmail to benefit themselves. But you also note that kids are being brainwashed, and perhaps some are being brainwashed by their own overbearing parents. This seems like a long running family feud in which courts are forced to intervene for the safety of the child. The bad actors are occasionally the parents.

There is a documentary on "Transgender kids" on HBO

one of the kids is heavily influenced by his mother into becoming trans. She even drags him on the stage of a Unitarian Universalist church, and forced his to proclaim his trans status.

years later, we find the boy has abandoned all of that, and it was clear that the mother was pushing it

so yes, parents can absolutely brainwash their kids

 

[rambot]

After reading that, it appears that:

1. The child is clearly estranged from his parents, and does not want to live at home
2. After the "transgender identity" was rejected by his parents, the boy then embarked on a kind of hunger strike, and adopted an eating disorder, as a way to seek escape from the home

One wonders what led to all this dysfunction to begin with?

the state wasn't simply motivated by protecting the boy's transgender identity, but also to make sure he got treatment for the eating disorder

but I also see the common blackmail technique of transgender people of "if you don't let me go get hormones or a sex change operation, I'll kill myself, and it will be your fault"! Transgender activists push this tactic online

this whole thing is a cautionary tale for parents: you need to make sure your kid is getting brainwashed with ideology, or exposed to bad actors.

I am not at all surprised to see victim blaming here.


I would argue the BEST strategy when your child stops eating is to, I dunno, have them receive mental health supports. So it makes sense to do what? Oh! Withdraw mental health supports.

And what is the other strategy when you are being abusive? What's that? Isolating the victim from others? Check! Let's withdraw him from school!


Whatever it takes to support terrible parents, I guess.

 

[rambot]

There is a documentary on "Transgender kids" on HBO

one of the kids is heavily influenced by his mother into becoming trans. She even drags him on the stage of a Unitarian Universalist church, and forced his to proclaim his trans status.

years later, we find the boy has abandoned all of that, and it was clear that the mother was pushing it

so yes, parents can absolutely brainwash their kids

This is a weeeeird argument. Of course parents can "brainwash" kids. It's why we send our children to church to begin with. Nobody would argue that.

But the argument that this is EXCLUSIVELY happenning to children (or even in the majority of cases) is misguided.

 

[JustOneWay]

so yes, parents can absolutely brainwash their kids

As parents, that is their prerogative. It happens everywhere every day.

 

[Merrill]

I am not at all surprised to see victim blaming here.


I would argue the BEST strategy when your child stops eating is to, I dunno, have them receive mental health supports. So it makes sense to do what? Oh! Withdraw mental health supports.

And what is the other strategy when you are being abusive? What's that? Isolating the victim from others? Check! Let's withdraw him from school!


Whatever it takes to support terrible parents, I guess.

I'm not victim blaming

I asked why there was all this dysfunction in the kid's life to begin with? Which is a way of saying "what in the world were the parents doing with this kid"?

Obviously, the kid needs (or needed) therapy for a number of issues

but you are simply assuming that the "terrible parents" are responsible for all the kid's problems. We don't know that. The boy may have been unduly influenced by others, abused by someone other than his parents, or exposed to all kinds of bad ideology online.

you do realize that a segment of our society is pushing the idea that "to be really cool, you not only need to be gay, you have to be transgender"!

 

[JustOneWay]

I'm not victim blaming

I asked why there was all this dysfunction in the kid's life to begin with? Which is a way of saying "what in the world were the parents doing with this kid"?

Obviously, the kid needs (or needed) therapy for a number of issues

but you are simply assuming that the "terrible parents" are responsible for all the kid's problems. We don't know that. The boy may have been unduly influenced by others, abused by someone other than his parents, or exposed to all kinds of bad ideology online.

you do realize that a segment of our society is pushing the idea that "to be really cool, you not only need to be gay, you have to be transgender"!

Not victim blaming, just blaming transgendered people in general.

 

[Merrill]

Not victim blaming, just blaming transgendered people in general.

nice strawman attempt

 

[Belk]

I'm not victim blaming

I asked why there was all this dysfunction in the kid's life to begin with? Which is a way of saying "what in the world were the parents doing with this kid"?

Obviously, the kid needs (or needed) therapy for a number of issues

but you are simply assuming that the "terrible parents" are responsible for all the kid's problems. We don't know that. The boy may have been unduly influenced by others, abused by someone other than his parents, or exposed to all kinds of bad ideology online.

you do realize that a segment of our society is pushing the idea that "to be really cool, you not only need to be gay, you have to be transgender"!

No, I did not realize a segment of society was pushing "You have to be gay to be cool". What segment is pushing this and how are they doing so?

 

[rambot]

I'm not victim blaming

Upon rereading, I stand mostly corrected. I think there's one statement that reads a bit that way but otherwise, not really.
I stand corrected.

I asked why there was all this dysfunction in the kid's life to begin with? Which is a way of saying "what in the world were the parents doing with this kid"?

Frankly, I found it shocking that parents would WITHDRAW their child from counselling when they were aware of what he was dealing with.

but I also see the common blackmail technique of transgender people of "if you don't let me go get hormones or a sex change operation, I'll kill myself, and it will be your fault"! Transgender activists push this tactic online

Whoa. That's a pretty nasty claim. Do you have evidence for that? This sounds like something a talking head would spout off. Also, I'm specifically calling out the word "common" and would ask you to expound on what exactly it means in this context.

Obviously, the kid needs (or needed) therapy for a number of issues

It's easy to say that now, but yes. He absolutely did.

but you are simply assuming that the "terrible parents" are responsible for all the kid's problems.

Yes, I am. I'm inclined to say I think the difference between you and me is exactly what we would delineate as the "kid's problems" though.

We don't know that. The boy may have been unduly influenced by others, abused by someone other than his parents, or exposed to all kinds of bad ideology online.

Ahhh....but you're stearing the problem toward him being transgender. I don't think they are terrible parents BECAUSE he is transgender.

I think they're terrible parents based on how they RESPONDED to his being transgender.

you do realize that a segment of our society is pushing the idea that "to be really cool, you not only need to be gay, you have to be transgender"!

First off, I would DEFINITELY argue that defining it as a "Segment of society" seems to give it WAAAAAAY more power than you think. There is a small contingent of their PEERS that may say that....but that contingent will be miniscule.

There is a much LARGER portion of society that is saying "if you're transgender, youre ** in the head".

There really isn't THAT many people who talk about being "gay" and being "cool". I'm not gonna DENY it at all, but I think that group is pretty small.

 

[Vambram]

After reading that, it appears that:

1. The child is clearly estranged from his parents, and does not want to live at home
2. After the "transgender identity" was rejected by his parents, the boy then embarked on a kind of hunger strike, and adopted an eating disorder, as a way to seek escape from the home

One wonders what led to all this dysfunction to begin with?

the state wasn't simply motivated by protecting the boy's transgender identity, but also to make sure he got treatment for the eating disorder

but I also see the common blackmail technique of transgender people of "if you don't let me go get hormones or a sex change operation, I'll kill myself, and it will be your fault"! Transgender activists push this tactic online

this whole thing is a cautionary tale for parents: you need to make sure your kid is getting brainwashed with ideology, or exposed to bad actors.

Amen!!!!
Parents really ought to make sure that their children are not being brainwashed with ideology or exposed to people who are bad actors, and activists that support behaviors which should be limited to adults.
Children and teenagers should be kids and enjoy being kids. When they are adults, that's when they, generally speaking, should start making decisions as adults. But when kids are still kids, let them be kids.

 

[Merrill]

Upon rereading, I stand mostly corrected. I think there's one statement that reads a bit that way but otherwise, not really.
I stand corrected.


Frankly, I found it shocking that parents would WITHDRAW their child from counselling when they were aware of what he was dealing with.


Whoa. That's a pretty nasty claim. Do you have evidence for that? This sounds like something a talking head would spout off. Also, I'm specifically calling out the word "common" and would ask you to expound on what exactly it means in this context.


It's easy to say that now, but yes. He absolutely did.

Yes, I am. I'm inclined to say I think the difference between you and me is exactly what we would delineate as the "kid's problems" though.

Ahhh....but you're stearing the problem toward him being transgender. I don't think they are terrible parents BECAUSE he is transgender.

I think they're terrible parents based on how they RESPONDED to his being transgender.


First off, I would DEFINITELY argue that defining it as a "Segment of society" seems to give it WAAAAAAY more power than you think. There is a small contingent of their PEERS that may say that....but that contingent will be miniscule.

There is a much LARGER portion of society that is saying "if you're transgender, youre ** in the head".

There really isn't THAT many people who talk about being "gay" and being "cool". I'm not gonna DENY it at all, but I think that group is pretty small.

No one is born with gender dysphoria, and no one is born "in the wrong body"

It is a consequence of upbringing, environment, trauma, propaganda, or all of these. There could be an underlying neurosis or psychosis that also plays a big part

In the UK, the number of adolescents diagnosed with gender dysphoria went up 20 fold in 10 years, with most of the individuals being young girls

‘An explosion’: what is behind the rise in girls questioning their gender identity?

As the NHS reviews gender referrals, parents, clinicians and young people reveal the social, medical and emotional challenges they face

www.theguardian.com

Logic and observation clearly show that is a consequence of things other than biology. In the US, the number of gender clinics has exploded, and there is big money to be made in "gender-affirming care". If doctors can get paid to chemically castrate kids, they will do it

so there are victims here for sure: young girls who are told they are boys by parents (specifically mothers) who seek affirmation in far-left political and ideological circles. Girls who are subjected to "top surgery" and hormones by greedy, morally-bankrupt doctors. Girls who are confused and alienated. We can argue about this all day, but believe me, 10 years from now, there will be massive lawsuits and a lot of very unhappy people who were victimized by all of this. It is like "repressed memory syndrome" all over again

Now in this instance, we can only speculate as to why this boy was suffering from gender dysphoria, anorexia, anxiety, and other issues. The parents may not have gotten him the care he *should* have gotten

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

As parents, that is their prerogative. It happens everywhere every day.

I am old school, and I believe what the Bible teaches. Maybe it is brainwashing but it works where I live.
Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

 

[rambot]

No one is born with gender dysphoria, and no one is born "in the wrong body"

It is a consequence of upbringing, environment, trauma, propaganda, or all of these. There could be an underlying neurosis or psychosis that also plays a big part

In the UK, the number of adolescents diagnosed with gender dysphoria went up 20 fold in 10 years, with most of the individuals being young girls

‘An explosion’: what is behind the rise in girls questioning their gender identity?

As the NHS reviews gender referrals, parents, clinicians and young people reveal the social, medical and emotional challenges they face

www.theguardian.com

Logic and observation clearly show that is a consequence of things other than biology. In the US, the number of gender clinics has exploded, and there is big money to be made in "gender-affirming care". If doctors can get paid to chemically castrate kids, they will do it

so there are victims here for sure: young girls who are told they are boys by parents (specifically mothers) who seek affirmation in far-left political and ideological circles. Girls who are subjected to "top surgery" and hormones by greedy, morally-bankrupt doctors. Girls who are confused and alienated. We can argue about this all day, but believe me, 10 years from now, there will be massive lawsuits and a lot of very unhappy people who were victimized by all of this. It is like "repressed memory syndrome" all over again

Now in this instance, we can only speculate as to why this boy was suffering from gender dysphoria, anorexia, anxiety, and other issues. The parents may not have gotten him the care he *should* have gotten

I'm not sure why you quoted my post (that raised several different points) when writing this as I'm not sure how they are related.

 

[Larniavc]

No one is born with gender dysphoria, and no one is born "in the wrong body"

It is a consequence of upbringing, environment, trauma, propaganda, or all of these. There could be an underlying neurosis or psychosis that also plays a big part

And you presumption that this is true is based on what? Which study done or read by you as convinced you of this?

 

[JustOneWay]

I am old school, and I believe what the Bible teaches. Maybe it is brainwashing but it works where I live.
Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

The reason I said that is because of the choice to use the word 'brainwash' because every child is taught, indoctrinated and brainwashed as needed by parents and supervising adults. I just chuckle that indoctrinated and brainwashed are used when the person using the word dislikes or takes issue with the subject matter.

 

[JustOneWay]

nice strawman attempt

No strawman here.

After reading what you have said about transgendered people, my comment is accurate.

 

[BCP1928]

I stand with the parents to raise their child as they see fit.

That doesn't answer the question. What would you do?

I'm not victim blaming

I asked why there was all this dysfunction in the kid's life to begin with? Which is a way of saying "what in the world were the parents doing with this kid"?

Obviously, the kid needs (or needed) therapy for a number of issues

but you are simply assuming that the "terrible parents" are responsible for all the kid's problems. We don't know that. The boy may have been unduly influenced by others, abused by someone other than his parents, or exposed to all kinds of bad ideology online.

you do realize that a segment of our society is pushing the idea that "to be really cool, you not only need to be gay, you have to be transgender"!

It's too bad that their sex education has been so poor that they fall for it.

 

[Merrill]

And you presumption that this is true is based on what? Which study done or read by you as convinced you of this?

I haven't made any "presumptions"

but you seem to be making some claims here.

1. That people can be "born in the wrong body". OK, show me empirical proof of that, or what it would even look like, because that is a metaphysical claim
2. That gender dysphoria has nothing to do with upbringing, environment, or underlying neurosis / psychosis. So where does gender-dysphoria come from exactly? Are we going back into metaphysics?

There are countless studies on gender dysphoria --I don't need to start posting them here.

And even if, it could be proved that people are "born in the wrong body", it would STILL be unethical to subject them to sex-reassignment surgery, as it is impossible to change the biological sex of a human being

Transgenderism is ideology. Gender Dysphoria is a disorder.

 

[Merrill]

No strawman here.

After reading what you have said about transgendered people, my comment is accurate.

Really?

Show me where I "blamed transgendered people" of anything?