A Violent God?

[Martinez]

The 'serpeant' in the garden of Eden was an describtion of satan...now whether he used a real snake to 'talk through' or not, I do not know. I don't know if he has that kind of power. In Revelation satan is refered to a a serpent.

Revelation 12:9
This great dragon--the ancient serpent called the Devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world--was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.

Satan is called this because of the type of being he has become...low, underhanded, not to be trusted, etc....God used animals alot in the bible to describe the character of beings or people and even whole nations. Its pretty interesting actually.

On the talking donkey...why couldn't God make a donkey He created talk? Its one of the passages Christians enjoy joking around about alot....not that we doubt it, its just such a funny thing to image in our minds!



Well since God created us He knows excatly how our bodies work...of course! In fact there are quiet a few passages about the human body in the bible and as time has gone by science has been slowly learned enough to realize what the bible said on a certain health issue was indeed correct! For instance it was alll over the news that a health study was done showing the benefits of wine...including with upset stomachs! Of course they also say, getting drunk, drinking too much WILL damage organs in the body just as the bible also warns about...it warns against being a drunk. But two glasses of red wine and even some white wines have huge health benefits.

Here is one website on it.

http://nutrition.about.com/od/guestarticles/a/healthandwine.htm
The Health Benefits of Wine

A scientific team in Denmark was the first to uncover the remarkable phenomenon that, on average, the French consume about 30% more fat than Americans in the form of cheeses, butter and meat. However, the French have far lower cholesterol levels than Americans and a startlingly 40% fewer heart attacks. The researchers found the moderate and daily consumption of red wine was the missing link in the American diet.

In research that has been reproduced and expanded upon throughout the world, it has been confirmed that the nutrients, minerals, vitamins and immune system boosters that are contained within red wine can add-up to substantial long-term health benefits - especially for individuals at risk for heart disease as the result of a high fat, high cholesterol diet. New research is beginning to uncover the presence of powerful antioxidants in red wine, including veratrole and catechin among others, that are known to reduce blood clotting, reduce risk of heart attacks, and even help combat some forms of cancer.


It aids in digestion, stimulates the appetite and combats neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s. It has even been found to help combat both Anorexia and Obesity.


White wine, like red wine, has significant anti-inflammatory properties derived from appropriate levels of tyrosol and caffeic acid. Because the process that creates white wine retains many of the antioxidants that are found in red wine, it is also important for its anticancer qualities, as well as its ability to improve blood circulation and increase oxygen supply.


I picked out just a few things in that article...there is alot more if you care to go to the link...or do your own search even. Here is a link to quiet a few websites on the health benefits of wine: http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv1-&p=health+benefits+of+wine



I am wondering if you have any children? or have any experience in taking care of children. Kids are like a blank slake in many ways, they don't seem to 'just know' not to do certain things...like run in the street, not touch something hot, not play with knifes, not take things from other children and so forth. For a parent to beable to do a good job they have to disciple them...which means make judgements. You for instance know certain things are wrong to do...a child does not...and a little baby that is crawling around and grabbing for something that could hurt them, do not know what 'no' means...so no matter how many times you say, no, they will keep doing it. But first you have to make a judgement about what they are doing before you can make the desion to say no.

You have to decide if what they are grabbing for may hurt them...later when they are older and doing something wrong, such as smacking their brother or sister...or biting them (alot of little ones go through this stage of biting), you know its wrong, but they don't. So you have to make a judgment call, right? Biting someone else hurts...and can lead to a dangerous infection if the break the skin requiring medical treatment. Now you cannot isolate this child from everyone in the world including yourself to avoid them biting anyone..so what do you do?

In love you make a judgment call and disciple them for biting...this may mean time out, having to go to their room for awhile...etc...

They are simply too young to reason with too....a child cannot understand.."See how you made your brother or sister cry! You hurt them!" congitively they cannot 'image being someone else. They really cannot understand they have infliced pain on someone else. If you say, "How would you like it if someone bit you like that?" they will scream and cry thinking someone is going to do an injustic to them! But cannot 'see' they are doing an injustic to someone else.

So in order to teach them right from wrong you have to pass judgment on what they are doing...and set rules and guidelines of what they can and cannot do. God set commandments for us to prevent us from hurting each other and ourselves. In order for Him to do this, He had to judge what was right and what was wrong. Do you agree on that?

Yeah!

You go girl!
that was so well said, you are so much more paitient and mature than I am.

 

[whitestar]

Wait a second, are you saying that there are some things that God cannot do? So, it is true, God is not all-powerful afterall....hmm....

No...I didn't say He could not as in it was impossible...I quoted Jesus, who said of the blasphemyHoly Spirit would NOT be forgiven. At any rate the limitations if you can even call it that of God are that He cannot do anything outside of His nature...meaning, He cannot sin! So if you want to say He is limited because He can't sin....so be it...but that would be a rather twisted image of God I would think.

Quote

I was just making a point here that not ALL sins are forgiven. I have no idea if she meant just believers or everyone or what...here is another intesting article on sin...sadly some Christian think they can sin all they want if they accept Jesus as their Savior..it just doesn't work that way.

Yes, ALL sins are forgiven. Especially since sin doesn't exist...but that's another argument not for this particular discussion. I meant everyone.
Hmm? I haven't seen anyone here claiming that they can go around living outside of love.

So murder is ok with you then?

Why would anyone here claim to be living outside of the love of God? Well except the athesit..who totally reject Him...have you been on that fourm when they hang out and constantly attack God and say He doesn't exist at all by the way?

Because, it doesn't seem true compared to what God's taught me about Himself. Well, let's see, the influences of others mostly tells me to believe the Bible is true and stop following the path God has put me on....I think I'll listen to God rather than man.

Oh but you ARE following man's idea of God! You claim to be a pantheism Christian, which is a man made idea:

pantheism
One entry found for pantheism.

Main Entry: pan·the·ism
Pronunciation: 'pan(t)-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French panthéisme, from panthéiste pantheist, from English pantheist, from pan- + Greek theos god
1 : a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe
2 : the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

How do I know that the Bible doesn't have the ultimate authority on God's character? Because, there are many other books that speak of God, and more importantly, Love speaks of God.

And what books would those be if you don't mind me asking?

how do you define love? How do you know the bible is not the word of God?

I define Love as the energy force that binds everything together in perfect unity. It doesn't envy, nor does it keep a record of wrongs. It sees others with open eyes-full of understanding and compassion. It gently guides people to their highest self. It doesn't judge.
Because, Christ is said to be the Word of God-"The Word was with God, and the Word was God." That's not talking about the Bible.

Actually that last sentence is in the bible.


John 1

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

At any rate your view of God and love are excatly defined in what pantheism is...this isn't a new thing, its not a view that only you have...you learned it from others ideas it seems.

I'm sorry, but as Athene said, the Bible cannot be proven to be inspired by God because it says so. Guess what, some of my journal is inspired by God. Yes, because it says so. (I mean it, really, God spoke to me, and I wrote down what He said.) But, you won't believe that any of my journal is inspired by God, will you?

If you had read that whole article you would see that there are tons of evidence outside the bible showing its true in what it says it is. Of course if I ONLY said the bible proves its self by only using the bible that would be circalar reasonings...but I don't have to only rely on that because of all this other evidence the bible is true.

http://www.bible-history.com/empires/pilate.html
Pontius Pilate
http://www.bibleprobe.com/archeology.htm
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a021.html
Is there archaeological evidence of the Tower of Babel?
http://www.knls.org/images/slideshows/Humble%201to13/jpg_humble02.htm
Caiaphas Ossuary and other bible archeology

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/arch-ot.html
Archaeology and the Old Testament

http://www.carm.org/bible/extrabiblical_accounts.htm
Non biblical accounts of New Testament events and/or people
http://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htmhttp://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htm
Scientific Accuracies of the Bible

Let me know if you want more 'proof' that the bible is the word of God. I trust God enough to believe His word on it. Its for doubters that I have done all this research that show evidence outside of the bible to show it is true.

It gently guides people to their highest self. It doesn't judge.

Do you belive God lead Hilter to his higher self? If you think God was in Hilter, and Hilter was extremely voilent and committed some very extreme horrors then God was 'in it with him' wouldn't you think? If you believe God is in all of us, then God was going right along committing these horrors that Hilter was doing. And all murders, rapist and every evil people in this world is acting on God leading them to a higher place...which apparently for them is a very awful place and for those they hurt and mame and God is 'helping' them because He would be in them too...

If I am misunderstanding your beliefs here, please do educate me...cause it seems to me this is what you are saying. Not everyone in this world is a good person by any means!

Guess what, some of my journal is inspired by God. Yes, because it says so. (I mean it, really, God spoke to me, and I wrote down what He said.) But, you won't believe that any of my journal is inspired by God, will you?

I have no idea..I didn't know you had a journal nor have I read it...so I can't answer that.

God bless

 

[Athene]

Whitestar, wine does have many health benefits, and it also aids digestion by being a powerful stimulator of stomach acid secretion, excess acid production irritates the stomach lining causing inflammation.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

to the merciful, God shows himself merciful... to the violent: -

 

[whitestar]

Whitestar, wine does have many health benefits, and it also aids digestion by being a powerful stimulator of stomach acid secretion, excess acid production irritates the stomach lining causing inflammation.

Ok...but the thing is you are assuming this is the type of stomach problems talked about in the bible...where is doesn't say what the problem was...it only says this:


<LI>1 Timothy 5:23
Don't drink only water. You ought to drink a little wine for the sake of your stomach because you are sick so often.It simply doesn't tell us it was too much acid on his stomach...so why are you assuming that was the problem?

 

[Martinez]

No...I didn't say He could not as in it was impossible...I quoted Jesus, who said of the blasphemyHoly Spirit would NOT be forgiven. At any rate the limitations if you can even call it that of God are that He cannot do anything outside of His nature...meaning, He cannot sin! So if you want to say He is limited because He can't sin....so be it...but that would be a rather twisted image of God I would think.

Quote

I was just making a point here that not ALL sins are forgiven. I have no idea if she meant just believers or everyone or what...here is another intesting article on sin...sadly some Christian think they can sin all they want if they accept Jesus as their Savior..it just doesn't work that way.

So murder is ok with you then?

Why would anyone here claim to be living outside of the love of God? Well except the athesit..who totally reject Him...have you been on that fourm when they hang out and constantly attack God and say He doesn't exist at all by the way?



Oh but you ARE following man's idea of God! You claim to be a pantheism Christian, which is a man made idea:

pantheism
One entry found for pantheism.

Main Entry: pan·the·ism
Pronunciation: 'pan(t)-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French panthéisme, from panthéiste pantheist, from English pantheist, from pan- + Greek theos god
1 : a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe
2 : the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism



And what books would those be if you don't mind me asking?



Actually that last sentence is in the bible.


John 1

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

At any rate your view of God and love are excatly defined in what pantheism is...this isn't a new thing, its not a view that only you have...you learned it from others ideas it seems.




If you had read that whole article you would see that there are tons of evidence outside the bible showing its true in what it says it is. Of course if I ONLY said the bible proves its self by only using the bible that would be circalar reasonings...but I don't have to only rely on that because of all this other evidence the bible is true.

http://www.bible-history.com/empires/pilate.html
Pontius Pilate
http://www.bibleprobe.com/archeology.htm
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a021.html
Is there archaeological evidence of the Tower of Babel?
http://www.knls.org/images/slideshows/Humble%201to13/jpg_humble02.htm
Caiaphas Ossuary and other bible archeology

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/arch-ot.html
Archaeology and the Old Testament

http://www.carm.org/bible/extrabiblical_accounts.htm
Non biblical accounts of New Testament events and/or people
http://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htmhttp://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htm
Scientific Accuracies of the Bible

Let me know if you want more 'proof' that the bible is the word of God. I trust God enough to believe His word on it. Its for doubters that I have done all this research that show evidence outside of the bible to show it is true.



Do you belive God lead Hilter to his higher self? If you think God was in Hilter, and Hilter was extremely voilent and committed some very extreme horrors then God was 'in it with him' wouldn't you think? If you believe God is in all of us, then God was going right along committing these horrors that Hilter was doing. And all murders, rapist and every evil people in this world is acting on God leading them to a higher place...which apparently for them is a very awful place and for those they hurt and mame and God is 'helping' them because He would be in them too...

If I am misunderstanding your beliefs here, please do educate me...cause it seems to me this is what you are saying. Not everyone in this world is a good person by any means!



I have no idea..I didn't know you had a journal nor have I read it...so I can't answer that.

God bless

Now you sound like your starting to get annoyed.

welcome to my world!

 

[whitestar]

Now you sound like your starting to get annoyed.

welcome to my world!

Actually my son is driving me totally batty today!! well actually all weekend....sigh

 

[Martinez]

Actually my son is driving me totally batty today!! well actually all weekend....sigh

actually,

My son's going to drive me totally batty for the next six months or so.
aparrently He's just started teething!
I think their coming home tonight, I hav'nt seen them for 2 months!

He was 2 months old when I saw him last.

 

[whitestar]

Casstranquility, I think I am all caught up on here except to address your post...number 52 which you had asked me to do...so I will do that now...I had to go back and reread some things to see what we were discussing to better understand your reply...so I may have a mix of another previous post in here too.

Casstranquility: The rest of my post describes things that are either not in the Bible, or are interpretations of a metaphorical veiwing of the Bible.
I know that the all-powerful, all-knowing, God who is Love committed no acts of violence. Nor did It order violence to occur.

To commit violence, God would have to forget the meaning of love.
I believe that the OT is either a collection of myths/metaphors, or if it happened truly, than the only god who told others to murder was one that represented humans and their depth into the illusion of separation.

Is there anything in the bible you do believe? I posted links showing actual evidence of many of the places and people existing in the OT...how much proof would it take for you to believe the stories in the OT really did happen?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/arch-ot.html


You see, to me, we are all God, and God, as us, orders killings all of the time. We are living in an illusion of separation, so we do not know Who we are. That is the only way we are able to experience death and suffering. (I agree with trase. )

Again this makes totally no sense...because its saying that when a person chooses to murder, God is in them, helping them murder...but yet you say God is not voilent...so this makes no sense.

Then I replied to this and then you replied to me on your post 52 here:

Quote
Originally Posted by: whitestar

Apparently...they are your metaphorical viewing of what God is...

What does that mean?

I mean you are reading into what the bible says to make God into what you want. This is why I believe you are getting a distorted view of who God is.

Quote

You are trying to compare what the world calls love to how God defines it...they are not the same thing.

I am not. I do not think you understand what the world calls love. People on this earth do not know how to love each other with a Godly love, otherwise we would not have wars.
I know they are not the same thing. God's love is pure. God defined love in the Bible, and that's what I was going by, not what the world calls love.

You are talking about people's actions...and you are right in that its pretty obivous there are alot of unloving people out there, or we wouldn't have wars. But I was talking about what the world thinks love is...what they think it means...

The world thinks love is what you seem to think it is...no pain...fluffy ice cream bubbles in the sky love, where no one ever hurts another in word or actions and everyone lives happily ever after....kind of like the a fairy tale story...or Snow white kind of love..the 'we'll be together forever love', the nothing bad ever happens love, etc, etc...its very unrealistic and impossible for any human being to meet this type of love. Its not even close to the bibles defination of love either.

In order for their to be true pure love, their has to be judgment...other wise it means God does not care about those who have been murder, raped, or had other horrible things done to them. Do you honestly think love would not care about such things? Just tell Hilter and his so called doctors who did horrible experiements on children and others...all they did was torture them ...there was no real medical studies going on. Do you think it would be love for God to ingore that? And tell them, oh its ok you baked to death hundreds of little children, I still love you, welcome to heaven...

Would you want to be in a Heaven with evil people like this to begin with? Or do you think at that point God would have zapped them into perfect loving beings that no longer wanted to hurt anyone? And the children that were murdered in this way would just shrug it off and give Hilter a big hug? What about their parents? Should they also be zapped into forgiving these men for the terrible things they did to their children and never see any justice?

By having the word, "Christian" on your incon this implies you believe in the Christian God, that you believe that Jesus was the Son of God, that He died for our sins, rose from the dead and now sits at the right hand side of the Father in Heaven. And one day will return to judge the living and the dead.

You might want to rethink your beliefs and your position on this...check out how this board defines what a Christians is:
http://www.christianforums.com/rules
.2 We use the contents of the Nicene Creed as a set of criteria to define who can post in the "Christians Only" forums. The Nicene Creed has been used for millenia by the church to define the boundaries of orthodoxy within Christianity. The contents of the Nicene Creed conveniently summarize the main doctrines found in the Bible that are held by Evangelical Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox Christianity. The Nicene Creed itself has been used since the beginning of church history to battle heresy. It summarizes issues like the Trinitarian nature of God, the Divinity of Christ and other basic doctrines of mainstream Christianity that are agreed upon by all major Christian denominations and churches. We do not expect members who want to post in the "Christians Only" forums to accept or affirm the actual Creed - we expect them to agree to its contents only which are based on the Bible.

6.3 The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references as it is based on the Bible)


We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

*The word "catholic" (literally, "universal") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination or institution.

**This can be interpreted to mean that baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or a regenerating ordinance.

Quote
Have you ever read the book of Revelation in the NT? If so what do you think about God pouring out His wrath on the wicked?

Yes. I think that there is no wrath in Love. The book of Revelations is a dream, not a reality.

Revelation is propheties...some of it has already come to pass, more is to come. One thing the bible is totally excellent on is its propheties...everyone has come true, except for the Second Coming of Jesus, the Great White Throne judgment and the New Heave and New Earth....those are yet to come. Every Christian I know can't wait for the Second Coming of Jesus...it will be awesome! And then at last, we can be at home with our God.

Do you believe anything in the bible at all?

Quote
Did you read my post as to why God has those people killed? He has a choice of taking away their free will and 'making them into nice people' or killing them. His sees saving our souls as more important then a very short physical life....it seems He did make this choice based on love....He stopped the suffering the children were going through by the hands of their very wicked evil parents...

I may have. Killing them destroys their free will, didn't you know?
Yes, the spiritual journey of a soul is more important than this physical life.
I see what you are saying...I think my problem is that if we were all perfect beings with perfect love, we could never be violent. God is a perfect being with perfect love, so cannot be violent-but perhaps He created the universe in such a way so that everything destroys itself in its present form if it's no longer useful. That way, He doesn't mess with free will, nor does He allow rampant wickedness to continue past certain points.

That's right...He doesn't allow rampant wickedness to continue past a certain point...so you are right..they lose their free will...

If you believe every thing will eventually be destroyed then you don't believe in Heaven either? Enteral life that Jesus brought to us?

 

[*Starlight*]

By having the word, "Christian" on your incon this implies you believe in the Christian God, that you believe that Jesus was the Son of God, that He died for our sins, rose from the dead and now sits at the right hand side of the Father in Heaven. And one day will return to judge the living and the dead.

You might want to rethink your beliefs and your position on this...check out how this board defines what a Christians is:
http://www.christianforums.com/rules

Just because CF defines a Christian as someone who believes in the Nicene Creed, it doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't accept the NC is a non-Christian! Christianity is a very diverse faith... you can find almost all kinds of beliefs here. The Nicene Creed describes the beliefs of only one kind of Christianity.

 

[whitestar]

Just because CF defines a Christian as someone who believes in the Nicene Creed, it doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't accept the NC is a non-Christian! Christianity is a very diverse faith... you can find almost all kinds of beliefs here. The Nicene Creed describes the beliefs of only one kind of Christianity.

Yes I realize that, I was using it as an example of the core of most Christians beliefs...as at least a starting point in my discussion with Cassie..I am simply trying to understand her beliefs...

 

[Casstranquility]

That's quite the little Idol you have fashioned in your own image there for yourself, not exercising any judgment!

MY OWN IMAGE????!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, had to yell, because I've seen this so often, I'm tired of it. Right, have you ever seen a human who can love without judging anyone? Hmm? Huh? No.

 

[Athene]

Ok...but the thing is you are assuming this is the type of stomach problems talked about in the bible...where is doesn't say what the problem was...it only says this:


<LI>1 Timothy 5:23
Don't drink only water. You ought to drink a little wine for the sake of your stomach because you are sick so often.It simply doesn't tell us it was too much acid on his stomach...so why are you assuming that was the problem?

I'm not assuming that, I'm stating that wine stimulates stomach acid production which is generally not desired when one has a stomach upset, unless of course the problem is too little stomach acid . . . but of course we can't assume that was the problem either.

BTW I noticed that a large part of the articles you linked too were published by wine making sites, or sites which promote wine sales, slightly spurious don't you think? There is increasing evidence to suggest that the alleged health beneifts of wine may be simply down to the fact that wine drinkers have healthier lifestyles then beer or spirit drinkers.

Wine benefits?
Wine benefits2?
http://www.jsonline.com/alive/news/jun05/332789.asp

 

[Casstranquility]

I am wondering if you have any children? or have any experience in taking care of children.

No. Yes.

So in order to teach them right from wrong you have to pass judgment on what they are doing...and set rules and guidelines of what they can and cannot do. God set commandments for us to prevent us from hurting each other and ourselves. In order for Him to do this, He had to judge what was right and what was wrong. Do you agree on that?

Humans have judgments-it's one of the ways we determine one thing from another. God needs no judgments, for to God, there is no right/wrong up/down hot/cold evil/good.
Those commandments prevent nothing. No, I don't agree, because I don't see right and wrong from God's point of view.

 

[Casstranquility]

At any rate the limitations if you can even call it that of God are that He cannot do anything outside of His nature...meaning, He cannot sin! So if you want to say He is limited because He can't sin....so be it...but that would be a rather twisted image of God I would think.

No, I wouldn't say that. Sin is a man-made idea. Sin is just an idea. I wouldn't say that God can sin.

So murder is ok with you then?

Where did you get that idea?

Why would anyone here claim to be living outside of the love of God? Well except the athesit..who totally reject Him...have you been on that fourm when they hang out and constantly attack God and say He doesn't exist at all by the way?

Are you talking about Atheists? I was talking about Christians. You said some Christians think they can sin all they want to. I said I didn't see anyone here acting like that.

Oh but you ARE following man's idea of God! You claim to be a pantheism Christian, which is a man made idea:

Yes, I know, but it's mine, not someone else's idea shoved on me. I chose this path through experience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

And what books would those be if you don't mind me asking?

The Upanishads. The Bhagavad Gita. The Q'uran.

Actually that last sentence is in the bible.

I know that.

At any rate your view of God and love are excatly defined in what pantheism is...this isn't a new thing, its not a view that only you have...you learned it from others ideas it seems.

That's what you did when you became a Christian. You took other's beliefs of love and God upon yourself. If you searched for yourself, used your experience, your spiritual compass, and you came to Christianity, then good for you. I don't dislike your path. I only say it is not the truth to me.

Do you belive God lead Hilter to his higher self?

Not in the last life we know about. That certainly wasn't his higher self showing when he had people killed.

If you think God was in Hilter, and Hilter was extremely voilent and committed some very extreme horrors then God was 'in it with him' wouldn't you think?

Not just in Hitler-is Hitler. Yes, if you want to think that way, God did it. But, it's nothing worse than what God did in the Old Testament anyway. I don't say God did it, I say that Hitler did it because he didn't know himself to be God.

If I am misunderstanding your beliefs here, please do educate me...cause it seems to me this is what you are saying. Not everyone in this world is a good person by any means!

Yes, you are misunderstanding, because I believe in reincarnation. People aren't rampaging, raping, and killing out of God-knowledge. They only do so out of ignorance. But, perhaps the Bible is true when it says God ordered violence-but not the Higher Self of God.

I have no idea..I didn't know you had a journal nor have I read it...so I can't answer that.

No...well, I could share some of what God told me with you if you like.

-Cassie

 

[Casstranquility]

Again this makes totally no sense...because its saying that when a person chooses to murder, God is in them, helping them murder...but yet you say God is not voilent...so this makes no sense.

That happens when I am talking about God-the Ultimate One, and God who doesn't know themself to be God. They are One, yet they are not the same. One is in the illusion of separation, experiencing life in all it's diversity. The Other is Everything at once, realized and complete.

I mean you are reading into what the bible says to make God into what you want. This is why I believe you are getting a distorted view of who God is.

No, I'm not trying to make God what I want. I'm reading the Bible in such a way to match what God told me about Himself. I don't understand it all myself, which is why I have trouble explaining my beliefs. Sometimes I'd much rather believe what others believe and what is laid out in the Bible, it would be soooo much easier, but I can't do that.

You are talking about people's actions...and you are right in that its pretty obivous there are alot of unloving people out there, or we wouldn't have wars. But I was talking about what the world thinks love is...what they think it means...

I was talking about love. There would be no war if people knew what love is. But, they don't.

The world thinks love is what you seem to think it is...no pain...fluffy ice cream bubbles in the sky love, where no one ever hurts another in word or actions and everyone lives happily ever after....kind of like the a fairy tale story...or Snow white kind of love..the 'we'll be together forever love', the nothing bad ever happens love, etc, etc...its very unrealistic and impossible for any human being to meet this type of love. Its not even close to the bibles defination of love either.

Are you talking about love-such as in one person with another? Happily ever after is not what people think love is, it's just a fantasy to them. They know it isn't real. I don't know any humans who know how to love with perfect love.

In order for their to be true pure love, their has to be judgment...other wise it means God does not care about those who have been murder, raped, or had other horrible things done to them.

There doesn't have to be judgment in love. And that does not mean that God doesn't care about those who have been treated horribly in this life.

Do you think it would be love for God to ingore that? And tell them, oh its ok you baked to death hundreds of little children, I still love you, welcome to heaven...

God doesn't ignore that. They don't make it to heaven right away.

Would you want to be in a Heaven with evil people like this to begin with?

Yes, actually, because there are no 'evil' humans. There are humans who have done 'evil' things, but no 'evil' humans.

Or do you think at that point God would have zapped them into perfect loving beings that no longer wanted to hurt anyone?

No, they go through more than one life to finally realize they are One with God, along with everyone else. And a person who realizes that, with no doubts, does not kill, or rape, or destroy.

And the children that were murdered in this way would just shrug it off and give Hilter a big hug?

Yes. They would actually. They would know for what reason everything happened.

What about their parents? Should they also be zapped into forgiving these men for the terrible things they did to their children and never see any justice?

The parents would come to see everything as it is, and have no need for justice. This is one area where we will certainly disagree. I do not believe in justice.

By having the word, "Christian" on your incon this implies you believe in the Christian God, that you believe that Jesus was the Son of God, that He died for our sins, rose from the dead and now sits at the right hand side of the Father in Heaven. And one day will return to judge the living and the dead.

Uh, no. I believe God is all gods-including the Christian perception. I do belive Jesus was the Son of God, as I am God's Daughter. I don't believe He died for our sins-unless He died to save us from the illusion of separation. Yes, rose from the dead. No, doesn't sit at the right hand of the Father. And not in heaven, unless we have some means of determining what heaven is. No judgment. I use the word Christian in my icon because I believe in Jesus, I believe in God, I believe in Love.

You might want to rethink your beliefs and your position on this...check out how this board defines what a Christians is:[/quote]

No thanks. I am a Christian. No matter what anyone says. I'm fine with my beliefs.

Every Christian I know can't wait for the Second Coming of Jesus...it will be awesome! And then at last, we can be at home with our God.

Well, here's a Christian who can wait. I want to learn how to be at home with God here on this earth.

Do you believe anything in the bible at all?

Obviously, yes.

That's right...He doesn't allow rampant wickedness to continue past a certain point...so you are right..they lose their free will...

I didn't say they would lose their free will. I don't think this is the only life we have. It makes it pointless to spiritually evolve for such a small amount of time and then poof! gone. Nah.

If you believe every thing will eventually be destroyed then you don't believe in Heaven either? Enteral life that Jesus brought to us?

I don't believe that everything will eventually be destroyed. Destroyed is one of those words that doesn't work well...because I don't believe anything can be destroyed-only change forms.
But, actually, I don't believe in heaven, unless it is Everywhere.
We have always been eternal beings. Jesus brought us knowledge of eternal life.

-Cassie

 

[whitestar]

Cassie, are you still sick? I know this is off topic, but it seems like you have had that sick icon up for awhile now...are you ok?

Just because we don't see eye to eye on things, doesn't mean I don't care about you, and I am concerned because it seems like you have had that sick icon on for awhile...

As far as your last two posts, right now I don't have time to respond as I am getting ready to go have lunch with my son at his school...but I did want to ask you something. Do you meditate? I have a feeling you do because of intergrating so many other beliefs. I would like you to try something if you want too. Next time you meditate, focus only on Jesus Christ...not God.

The word God is actually a genertic term used in many regilions as you know...and can literally mean any god...so focus on Jesus next time and let me know if you have any visons of Him and what was happening in your vision and how you felt at the time. If you don't want to publicily post it, please feel free to PM me about it. I have visions of Jesus myself when I meditate on Him. The bible does say to meditate on the word, which as you say, is Jesus...but its also scriptures that we meditate on.

I would be interested in viewing your writings too of course and if you click on my profile you can see my website and read my online novel though its not finished yet...still working on it.

While you view other regilions as having the same god...that they are all the same, I strongly disagree with that as they contrict each other for one thing. At any rate, there is of course a very high spiritual side to Christianity.

As far as saying God in the OT did the same thing as Hilter, this is what athesit like to say...but its simply not true. God never totured someone to death....as Hilter and his thugs did. They invented new extremely painful ways of killing people.

As far as God's judgment, there can be no love without it.

 

[Casstranquility]

Cassie, are you still sick? I know this is off topic, but it seems like you have had that sick icon up for awhile now...are you ok?

Yes, I'm still sick. I'm okay, just sick.

Just because we don't see eye to eye on things, doesn't mean I don't care about you, and I am concerned because it seems like you have had that sick icon on for awhile...

Thanks for caring.

Do you meditate? I have a feeling you do because of intergrating so many other beliefs. I would like you to try something if you want too. Next time you meditate, focus only on Jesus Christ...not God.

No, I don't meditate. Wish I did, but my mind just doesn't want to leave the picture. The times I have managed to meditate, I've found peace. I've never had any visions...only in my waking dreams, and those I created myself.

I would be interested in viewing your writings too of course and if you click on my profile you can see my website and read my online novel though its not finished yet...still working on it.

Okay, I'll share some of what I have typed up with you, then. Cool, you are a writer! I like to write poetry when I'm inspired or just being silly.

At any rate, there is of course a very high spiritual side to Christianity.

Yes, I know. It is one of the aspects of Christianity that keeps me with it. I know that through Christ I can find an amazing connection to God.

As far as saying God in the OT did the same thing as Hilter, this is what athesit like to say...but its simply not true. God never totured someone to death....as Hilter and his thugs did. They invented new extremely painful ways of killing people.

No, I don't remember reading where God ordered someone to be tortured...That would have made it even harder to read the OT.

As far as God's judgment, there can be no love without it.

We'll definitely have to agree to disagree there. I say there can be no Love with judgment.

-Cassie

 

[Casstranquility]

Sorry, extra post.

But, while I'm here, might as well send a hug to anyone who wants one.

 

[whitestar]

I'm not assuming that, I'm stating that wine stimulates stomach acid production which is generally not desired when one has a stomach upset, unless of course the problem is too little stomach acid . . . but of course we can't assume that was the problem either.

BTW I noticed that a large part of the articles you linked too were published by wine making sites, or sites which promote wine sales, slightly spurious don't you think? There is increasing evidence to suggest that the alleged health beneifts of wine may be simply down to the fact that wine drinkers have healthier lifestyles then beer or spirit drinkers.

Wine benefits?
Wine benefits2?
http://www.jsonline.com/alive/news/jun05/332789.asp

opps I totally missed this..sorry! Actually I didn't notice they were wine sellers, I just typed in a search and that is what it came up with....I did this because it seems like many people on this board don't know how to even do a search at all! But this was on the world news...so if you disgree with the benefits so be it...I didn't do the study so I can't prove or disprove them...lol. Oh and no I don't sell wine either..