This is true; and because Jesus is one person and Blessed Mary gave birth to the Lord, Jesus Christ, it is true and right to say that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God.
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This is true; and because Jesus is one person and Blessed Mary gave birth to the Lord, Jesus Christ, it is true and right to say that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God.The heresy is dividing Christ into two persons, as heresies have to do with the person of Christ.
A human being is a person, and God is a person. And yet God is not human except in the case of Christ where the two natures remain distinct yet in union, undivided. Therefore, because Christ is not divided, nor is He merely God residing in a human body, Mary was the mother of God. This was insisted on by the church not to honor Mary first of all-and certainly not to maintain that God originated with her somehow- but to maintain that she actually carried God in her womb in order to emphatically affirm that unique union of God with man, a critical union because through it both God and man are instrumental in man's salvation.Two separate "tings" (sic)?
Your quote talks about two separate persons. Body is not a person of its own (though it has its own collective "will" and goals, in mitochondria and microbiome).
Let us stick with biblical vocabulary and concepts. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.A human being is a person, and God is a person. And yet God is not human except in the case of Christ where the two natures remain distinct yet in union, undivided. Therefore, because Christ is not divided, nor is He merely God residing in a human body, Mary was the mother of God. This was insisted on by the church not to honor Mary first of all-and certainly not to maintain that God originated with her somehow- but to maintain that she actually carried God in her womb in order to emphatically affirm that unique union of God with man, a critical union because through it both God and man are instrumental in man's salvation.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that people can't object to a disproportionate Marian focus and through that temper any honorifics given to her even if they are technically correct. Some may object on Christological grounds, but those are not the only grounds for criticism (and from what I've seen are the exception rather than the general case).This is true; and because Jesus is one person and Blessed Mary gave birth to the Lord, Jesus Christ, it is true and right to say that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God.
The truth is that left to themselves people can and do object to every major doctrine of Christianity because they think they have better doctrines with which to replace them. The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God and she is without the stain of original sin and she is in heaven now bodily.Yes, but that doesn't mean that people can't object to a disproportionate Marian focus and through that temper any honorifics given to her even if they are technically correct. Some may object on Christological grounds, but those are not the only grounds for criticism (and from what I've seen are the exception rather than the general case).
And what does that even mean? On these forums and elsewhere Christians disagree on what Christ taught. Do we need to obey the ten commandments in order to enter life (Matt 19:17)? Do we need to forgive our brother, from our heart, in order to be forgiven by God (Matt 6:15, 18:35)? Does our righteousness need to surpass that of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law, and what does that mean (Matt 5)? Do we need to be baptized by water, if possible? Is Christ really present in the Eucharist, or is it just a symbolic memorial service? Is Jesus God? They're arguing that one again more now, based on Scripture. Are we once saved always saved? That's quite a significant matter. Do our own wills play any role in our salvation? Is faith alone enough to makes us just, to justify us, and what does that imply; do our acts/works/deeds/overcoming of sin matter? If we're not holy, if we don't love, if our hearts aren't pure, will we see God?There's no disunity among Christians when it comes to Christ.
I believe that many has read John 3:13 that no MAN hath ascended up to heaven , but He that came down from heave , even nthe Son of Man which is in HEAVEN .The truth is that left to themselves people can and do object to every major doctrine of Christianity because they think they have better doctrines with which to replace them. The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God and she is without the stain of original sin and she is in heaven now bodily.
That is a belief held by Catholics, and maybe others. I do not share it.The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of God and she is without the stain of original sin and she is in heaven now bodily.
But none of those things change what is true about Jesus; that he was both God and man, came to earth, lived among us, died for our sins, was raised, ascended and will come again. That is what we all agree on.And what does that even mean? On these forums and elsewhere Christians disagree on what Christ taught. Do we need to obey the ten commandments in order to enter life (Matt 19:17)? Do we need to forgive our brother, from our heart, in order to be forgiven by God (Matt 6:15, 18:35)? Does our righteousness need to surpass that of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law, and what does that mean (Matt 5)? Do we need to be baptized by water, if possible? Is Christ really present in the Eucharist, or is it just a symbolic memorial service? Is Jesus God? They're arguing that one again more now, based on Scripture. Are we once saved always saved? That's quite a significant matter. Do our own wills play any role in our salvation? Is faith alone enough to makes us just, to justify us, and what does that imply; do our acts/works/deeds/overcoming of sin matter? If we're not holy, if we don't love, if our hearts aren't pure, will we see God?
Who He is doesn't tell us what He wants us to do, how to live our lives. Otherwise we wouldn't need any instructions whatsoever. So great, we agree with who He is and decide not to divide over how to live, even though He came to tell us that. Ok??!!But none of those things change what is true about Jesus; that he was both God and man, came to earth, lived among us, died for our sins, was raised, ascended and will come again. That is what we all agree on.
The rest is just working out our faith, his teachings and how we apply them.
It's of concern because it can affect how we live our lives.Once Saved Always Saved, for example, is an interesting academic debate, or puzzle, but at the end of the day it's not actually our concern.
He tells us in many places what the evidence, the fruit, should be-so that we can know, and seek change if need be, for the sake of our eternal destinies. Somehow methinks yer just sort of grasping at straws here to defend a position that shouldn't require defending. Christians can and should-and do- draw the line somewhere on these and other such matters.Whether someone is saved, and will ultimately be saved, is his business - ours is just to love as he loved us and to proclaim the Good News.
The primary focus is who Christ is and what he wants. The primary factor is Christ that wants us to forgive others, he wants us to be baptized, he wants us to eat his body and drink his blood, he wants us to do good works and bear fruit. The bulk of protestantism is going to be in agreement with that. There might be dickering on the finer theological points of those things, but what's most important is doing what Christ wants.And what does that even mean? On these forums and elsewhere Christians disagree on what Christ taught. Do we need to obey the ten commandments in order to enter life (Matt 19:17)?
Do we need to forgive our brother, from our heart, in order to be forgiven by God (Matt 6:15, 18:35)? Does our righteousness need to surpass that of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law, and what does that mean (Matt 5)? Do we need to be baptized by water, if possible? Is Christ really present in the Eucharist, or is it just a symbolic memorial service? Is Jesus God? They're arguing that one again more now, based on Scripture. Are we once saved always saved? That's quite a significant matter. Do our own wills play any role in our salvation? Is faith alone enough to makes us just, to justify us, and what does that imply; do our acts/works/deeds/overcoming of sin matter? If we're not holy, if we don't love, if our hearts aren't pure, will we see God?
If you listen to sermons by well known Protestant pastors such as Charles Stanley and Alistair Begg etc, most of their sermons are going to be about our relationship with God and being equipped to serve Christ and others.Who He is doesn't tell us what He wants us to do, how to live our lives. Otherwise we wouldn't need any instructions whatsoever. So great, we agree with who He is and decide not to divide over how to live, even though He came to tell us that. Ok??!!
It's of concern because it can affect how we live our lives.
He tells us in many places what the evidence, the fruit, should be-so that we can know, and seek change if need be, for the sake of our eternal destinies. Somehow methinks yer just sort of grasping at straws here to defend a position that shouldn't require defending. Christians can and should-and do- draw the line somewhere on these and other such matters.
The primary focus is who Christ is and what he wants. The primary factor is Christ that wants us to forgive others, he wants us to be baptized, he wants us to eat his body and drink his blood, he wants us to do good works and bear fruit. The bulk of protestantism is going to be in agreement with that. There might be dickering on the finer theological points of those things, but what's most important is doing what Christ wants.
The question becomes, what do we need to do in order to gain eternal life-and there we have quite a variety of opinions-and some of those exclude anything besides having faith-believing something. And as the ancient churches taught justification correctly, there was never reason for the division that we now have. But I always appreciate right teachings coming from whereover they come and for the most part the majority of Protestants live as if what they do counts, regardless of theology.If you listen to sermons by well known Protestant pastors such as Charles Stanley and Alistair Begg etc, most of their sermons are going to be about our relationship with God and being equipped to serve Christ and others.
If you read the rest of my post, #388, I explained it.Why?
Excuse me for being so blunt, but what you wrote is just wrong all the way through.Jesus was the only person who could die for the sins of the world because he, alone, was perfect. Had Mary been perfect, she would not have had Jesus at all. She could have given her perfect life as a sacrifice to God for the sins of mankind. God would never have come to earth, never walked in our shoes, felt the things that we feel, experienced rejection, suffering and death.
In the OT a sacrifice was a lamb without blemish. If Mary had no blemish, she would have been that lamb.
He doesn't tell us how to live our lives though.Who He is doesn't tell us what He wants us to do, how to live our lives.
Like I said, he didn't come to tell us how to live our lives.So great, we agree with who He is and decide not to divide over how to live, even though He came to tell us that. Ok??!!
In what way?It's of concern because it can affect how we live our lives.
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace etc. These aren't possible without the Holy Spirit; HE produces them in us, we can't make the chnge on our own.He tells us in many places what the evidence, the fruit, should be-so that we can know, and seek change if need be, for the sake of our eternal destinies.
What position? All I said was that we have to work out a lot of things for ourselves.Somehow methinks yer just sort of grasping at straws here to defend a position that shouldn't require defending.
Yes, of course - but sometimes it will be a personal line.Christians can and should-and do- draw the line somewhere on these and other such matters.
Obviously you are going to say that; you're a Catholic.Excuse me for being so blunt, but what you wrote is just wrong all the way through.
Jesus' death saved people from sin.Blessed Mary was born without the stain of original sin BECAUSE Jesus saved her from it.
Jesus saved Mary from sin after he had died on the cross - just as he saved everybody else.Blessed Mary's human nature was without the stain of original sin BECAUSE she was saved by Jesus, but Jesus' human nature was without the stain of original sin because he was conceived without it. He needed no saviour because he was perfect in every way, Blessed Mary needed a saviour because she was a human being born by natural procreation and hence inherited a human nature marked by sin but by God's singular act of grace she was preserved unstained by original sin because Jesus saved her.
No, it would have redeemed the whole world.And even if what you said were true, and it is not true, that Blessed Mary was perfect and therefore could offer her perfect humanity as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, and this is not true for other reasons, her offer would not be enough, her sacrifice could not redeem the whole world, it may not have been able to redeem anyone else, besides herself.
If the application of Christ's saving acts were limited to the time after his resurrection then all the old testament saints would be doomed. But they are not doomed because time does not limit God's grace. You ought to know that.Jesus' death saved people from sin.
He hadn't died before he was born.
You speak as if you had sure knowledge of this claim yet the scriptures tell us that Job was perfect and that Enoch pleased God so God took him directly to heaven without dying. Your claim is not consistent with what is written so I will not spend more time on it than I have already.No, it would have redeemed the whole world.
No one among God's people had ever been perfect - shown perfect obedience to God and been able to keep his word perfectly.
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