A tough questions for a blind man...

[k4c]

First lets get one thing straight, according to the bible the church is the body of all believers, all believers everywhere are apart of the true church of Jesus Christ, divisions that follow men such as Calvinist, Lutherans, and other factions started by men who have private doctrine. You keep refering to sects and factions who gather together in the name of Christ as the church, Biblically these sects and factions wouldn't be reconized by the Apostles simply because of their name, many of these people are a part of the real church, but I don't believe the perfect little building where sinless Christians gather is a feasible possibility in an imperfect world. So does my church have a accurate and complete understanding of all truth? of course not, has Christ returned and made everything clear!, but more importantly what about the other side of that question, do you know of inaccuracies, and incomplete understanding in your church and you stay!.....thats the part I don't understand, I certainly would not stay and cause derision in a body of believers when what is taught is not biblical, (an example) I wouldn't stay in a Christian reformed church and lament about how unbiblical infant sprinkling baptism is when its part of their church doctrine, that wouldn't be the biblical right thing to do. I don't understand, if I was a Morman and someone told me I should do a little research on Joseph Smith the founder of my faith, because alot of things are unbiblical about the man and his life, the things he said, the prophecies he made. I would want to know what the real truth was......But like the Mormans, they put Joseph Smith on such a high pedastel that even the thought there could be heresy, would be enough to fight over. We see this same thing with the Pope, as if he is infallable, its ridiculas! yet no one will look behind the curtain, and see the great and mighty OZ, no body will do the homework to see if the faith they are following has a good root (not perfect) but not having a heretical founder either

Thanks for you answer. Now tell me, you admit that your church does not have a complete and accurate understanding of truth yet you stay there. Why is that?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Thanks. Sometimes I just gotta stand up for common sense and the Bible, futile as it may be.

You do realize that you are in an Adventist room and you are standing up for doctrine that is non Adventist, right?

I supose you could do the same in the Mormon room or the Catholic room but people like coming to evangelize us poor, mislead Adventists.

Unfortunately for you, you are wasting your keystrokes...

God has a last day message for His church and that message is the three angels message, the sanctuary message and the Commandment reform message.

 

[realtruth101]

RT, many of us are new to Adventism and have come from other protestant denominations. I am well aware of the issues surrounding sister White. I have been to many websites that malign who she was and what she wrote.

The idea of a modern day messenger of God was new to me when I first looked into Adventism, so I checked into it and found that the accusations against her were flat out lies or refered to statements she made taken out of context completely. That initial investigation of Ellen White allowed me to experience reading alot of what she has written in the last five years and I am uplifted and more in love with Jesus than I ever have been in my life. Revelation does say that in the last days that men and women would dream dreams and have visions, so I don't see whay it would be beyond reason that she was indeed spoken to of God and given a message for His last day church.

Speaking of church, I think you will find that most of us on here feel the same way about the definition of what a church is. Personally, I do not attend a conference SDA church because of the apostacy that has crept in, I gather and fellowship with like minded brethren online for an hour everyday of the week, with Sabbath being completely about fellowship, worship and study... I do adhere to the pioneer teachings of Adventism, through whom, I believe, God set up the present truth message for our time.

yeah! the same goes for Joseph Smith, he is constantly being mis-quoted, mis-interpreted, and generally not understood for the great revelation given to him, God spoke to him too there both great prophets

 

[realtruth101]

RT, many of us are new to Adventism and have come from other protestant denominations. I am well aware of the issues surrounding sister White. I have been to many websites that malign who she was and what she wrote.

The idea of a modern day messenger of God was new to me when I first looked into Adventism, so I checked into it and found that the accusations against her were flat out lies or refered to statements she made taken out of context completely. That initial investigation of Ellen White allowed me to experience reading alot of what she has written in the last five years and I am uplifted and more in love with Jesus than I ever have been in my life. Revelation does say that in the last days that men and women would dream dreams and have visions, so I don't see whay it would be beyond reason that she was indeed spoken to of God and given a message for His last day church.

Speaking of church, I think you will find that most of us on here feel the same way about the definition of what a church is. Personally, I do not attend a conference SDA church because of the apostacy that has crept in, I gather and fellowship with like minded brethren online for an hour everyday of the week, with Sabbath being completely about fellowship, worship and study... I do adhere to the pioneer teachings of Adventism, through whom, I believe, God set up the present truth message for our time.

I have no problem with a modern day messengers, In fact I am a firm believer in the scripture Paul gives in 1 Cor. 12:28 "And God has appointed these in the church; first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.".......So I believe in modern day prophets, my only problem is I also believe in what the bible says about false prophets and those who prophecy and it doesn't come to pass as the prophet said. You are under the assumption that prophets of today only prophecy "IN PART" as if there is a hit or miss sort of prophetic word, that kind of assumption is NOT BIBLICAL!, when a prophet speaks and says "this is what the Lord says" baby you better be right!.....because your speaking for the Lord!

 

[realtruth101]

Thanks for you answer. Now tell me, you admit that your church does not have a complete and accurate understanding of truth yet you stay there. Why is that?

I'm not! I left quite a while ago....the apostacy is in every church I can find.

 

[k4c]

I'm not! I left quite a while ago....the apostacy is in every church I can find.

How do you define the apostacy you find in the church?

 

[k4c]

RT, many of us are new to Adventism and have come from other protestant denominations. I am well aware of the issues surrounding sister White. I have been to many websites that malign who she was and what she wrote.

The idea of a modern day messenger of God was new to me when I first looked into Adventism, so I checked into it and found that the accusations against her were flat out lies or refered to statements she made taken out of context completely. That initial investigation of Ellen White allowed me to experience reading alot of what she has written in the last five years and I am uplifted and more in love with Jesus than I ever have been in my life. Revelation does say that in the last days that men and women would dream dreams and have visions, so I don't see whay it would be beyond reason that she was indeed spoken to of God and given a message for His last day church.

Speaking of church, I think you will find that most of us on here feel the same way about the definition of what a church is. Personally, I do not attend a conference SDA church because of the apostacy that has crept in, I gather and fellowship with like minded brethren online for an hour everyday of the week, with Sabbath being completely about fellowship, worship and study... I do adhere to the pioneer teachings of Adventism, through whom, I believe, God set up the present truth message for our time.

I'm sending you a PM.

 

[realtruth101]

How do you define the apostacy you find in the church?

I define apostacy as no longer using the bible as the measuring stick and guide for doctrine and church instruction

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I define apostacy as no longer using the bible as the measuring stick and guide for doctrine and church instruction

Do you or your church celebrate Christmas or Easter? Those aren't Biblical....

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I have no problem with a modern day messengers, In fact I am a firm believer in the scripture Paul gives in 1 Cor. 12:28 "And God has appointed these in the church; first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.".......So I believe in modern day prophets, my only problem is I also believe in what the bible says about false prophets and those who prophecy and it doesn't come to pass as the prophet said. You are under the assumption that prophets of today only prophecy "IN PART" as if there is a hit or miss sort of prophetic word, that kind of assumption is NOT BIBLICAL!, when a prophet speaks and says "this is what the Lord says" baby you better be right!.....because your speaking for the Lord!

If you know of something I don't, then don't you feel responsible to point it out?

I honestly do not know of any Ellen White visions that have been in error. Mind you, alot of what she was shown deals with last day events so we'll be seeing it real soon. I obviously have not read, much less studied all her writings but I've looked at what has been brought against her writings and have reconciled the errors as either blatant malice and outlight lies or taken out of context.

 

[k4c]

I define apostacy as no longer using the bible as the measuring stick and guide for doctrine and church instruction

Everything I post and all my beliefs come right from the Bible. I spend hundreds of hours studying and testing what I believe. I read very little of EGW and what I do hear and know of her I test with Scripture. If I can't find it in the word I don't teach it. I'll keep it for information only, but I won't teach it or use it to establish a doctrine unless some event takes place to confirm it as a true endtime prophecy. But even then, it would have to line up with Scripture and God's plan.

I find when most reject what I post it's because they have not studied and tested everything they believe with the Bible as a whole in light of God's plan. They will quote a few verses that support what they believe while ignoring all the other verses that contradict what they believe. You have study and test everything to make it all fit. How this is done is through prayer, asking God to guide and reveal and by using the Bible to interpret the verses, rather than, using verses to interpret the Bible.

 

[Cribstyl]

Everything I post and all my beliefs come right from the Bible. I spend hundreds of hours studying and testing what I believe. I read very little of EGW and what I do hear and know of her I test with Scripture. If I can't find it in the word I don't teach it. I'll keep it for information only, but I won't teach it or use it to establish a doctrine unless some event takes place to confirm it as a true endtime prophecy. But even then, it would have to line up with Scripture and God's plan.

I find when most reject what I post it's because they have not studied and tested everything they believe with the Bible as a whole in light of God's plan. They will quote a few verses that support what they believe while ignoring all the other verses that contradict what they believe. You have study and test everything to make it all fit. How this is done is through prayer, asking God to guide and reveal and by using the Bible to interpret the verses, rather than, using verses to interpret the Bible.

The test is, what are your answers when people ask you questions about your threads. Do you sidestep and ask tons of rhetorical questions to avoid giving a respectful responses like you're getting from those who dont agree with you?

It funny that you're the one doing exactly what you claim others do. How can you question "being not under the law" and quote from James to support your comment? We give you a response and you ignor our post but want us to answer your threads.

 

[Joe67]

Consider Jehu, who was anointed through the authority of God to bring down the house of Ahab.

The Lord commended Jehu for doing all that he had commanded him to do. Yet, Jehu did not depart from the sin of Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, therefore Jehu's authority was shortened to 4 generations; the same number of generations of authority granted to Ahab because Ahab put on sackcloth after his reproof through Elijah as Ahab was standing in Naboth's vineyard, which he had just acquired through lying and murder, instigated by Jezebel.

These things are written for our admonition, we upon whom have come the ends of the world. There are 2 ends; that is, the Son is the end of the written code for righteousness, and the Father is the end of the authority of the Son.

Prophecy will cease. The end of the written code as God's authority.

Tongue's will cease. The end of the preaching of the gospel.

Perfect love will come. The chastening of the Father because we are sons and not children born without a covenant between our parents.

Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of God's covenant with Abraham and David.

The covenant of God at Sinai is not the covenant made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; yet the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob made this other covenant. It is the covenants(dual) of promise. The promise is to all the seed, those who are of the law and those who are of the faith of Abraham, which faith he was given while being uncircumcised.

The covenant given at Sinai was a good covenant and was not against the promises given to Abraham. The fault is in human nature and the law of sin that dwells in the flesh of us all. The law of sin that is in our flesh is a parasite that feeds off the terms of human responsibility and its rewards and its punishments as expressed at Sinai.

Sin comes alive when it hears the terms of the good, holy and just law saying, "You shall not". The sin that dwells in our flesh takes control of our mind and leads us to promise that all that God has said that we will do and be obedient. We just cannot not bear to hear God speaking to us, so we desire a human agent to write down what God tells the agent. We love to read the written message and find great pleasure and delight in the written message. We murmur against the human agent's leadership, but we love to read the words in their written form. We delight in the reading of information, whether it be duty or promise.

We and our fathers have all transgressed the laws, broken the covenant and are worthy of death. Our first father sinned and our teachers have transgressed. We are their offspring, physically and spiritually.

Let us not hide ourselves from our own flesh; hiding behind one tree in the midst of the garden saying, "Don't come near me for I am holier than you." Let us not burn incense upon altars of brick.

Joe

 

[realtruth101]

Do you or your church celebrate Christmas or Easter? Those aren't Biblical....

your right they're pagan holidays dressed up as Christian, The Catholic church is at the forefront of bringing most of the paganism into the church, and Idolaltry to an all time high, I think the SDA see Catholicism as the great harlot in Revelations......Their right in that teaching, but most of the reformation fails to see the harlot has daughters, I think SDA teaches all the daughters are those who don't keep the Sabath, that would be a good explaination, if keeping the Sabath was for all Christians according to scripture. You see I believe your supossed to keep the Sabath if in your heart you think its Gods command to you. but it is plainly written the gentiles received the Holy Spirit without conforming to any of the Jewish customs and laws, so the apostles decided on the laws the gentiles should keep, and it was refrain from sexual immorality, don't eat blood, and meat sacraficed to idols. In fact wwhen making the decision the apostles said why put them under a law even we can't keep. One of the first laws the Christians thought to institute against new converts was the law of circumcision. These new converts were indeed different, because they were gentiles, Paul says "If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?".......NOW who is still trying to withstsand God?....when you receive the Holy Spirit, it only can happen to someone who believes the gospel and is the gift, which is a deposit showing those who will inherit eternal life. So either the gentiles are saved by faith in Jesus alone, or they were in error and the disciples were in error not to put the Sabath day observence on them. because when its all said and done without Sabath observence you are not saved. yet what is really taught in the pages of truth.

 

[realtruth101]

Everything I post and all my beliefs come right from the Bible. I spend hundreds of hours studying and testing what I believe. I read very little of EGW and what I do hear and know of her I test with Scripture. If I can't find it in the word I don't teach it. I'll keep it for information only, but I won't teach it or use it to establish a doctrine unless some event takes place to confirm it as a true endtime prophecy. But even then, it would have to line up with Scripture and God's plan.

I find when most reject what I post it's because they have not studied and tested everything they believe with the Bible as a whole in light of God's plan. They will quote a few verses that support what they believe while ignoring all the other verses that contradict what they believe. You have study and test everything to make it all fit. How this is done is through prayer, asking God to guide and reveal and by using the Bible to interpret the verses, rather than, using verses to interpret the Bible.

Yes but do you except the whole bible, or are you like most, and have a smorgasboard Christianity. they go down the line and pick a little of this and a little of that, and don't like that, and we got a different interpretation about that so we stay away from that.......on and on, until they've picked the scriptures apart and have a whole new version of they're own Christianity, then get a clever little name and its off to build more churches and franchise the gospel to the ends of thee earth so help us God.

 

[k4c]

The test is, what are your answers when people ask you questions about your threads. Do you sidestep and ask tons of rhetorical questions to avoid giving a respectful responses like you're getting from those who dont agree with you?

It funny that you're the one doing exactly what you claim others do. How can you question "being not under the law" and quote from James to support your comment? We give you a response and you ignor our post but want us to answer your threads.

Oh! I'm sorry, were you answering my question?

 

[k4c]

Yes but do you except the whole bible, or are you like most, and have a smorgasboard Christianity. they go down the line and pick a little of this and a little of that, and don't like that, and we got a different interpretation about that so we stay away from that.......on and on, until they've picked the scriptures apart and have a whole new version of they're own Christianity, then get a clever little name and its off to build more churches and franchise the gospel to the ends of thee earth so help us God.

I won't even entertain this post.

 

[realtruth101]

I won't even entertain this post.

Actually your jumping little fish was entertainment enough!....lol.....Thats Ok! I except your none response, just as most churches of today. The bible is nice enough for some things, but to be the complete guide is pushing the envelope. stick with the deserts they go down easy

 

[Cribstyl]

Oh! I'm sorry, were you answering my question?

I'm in many of your threads answering your questions. Now you're going beyond this thread about an issue in this thread.
I find do find it unfortunate for you to take you infair attitude to other threads.....but ....I'm cool with that...
I dont have to spend days to find answers for questionable postings.

Sign..."the blind man"

 

[Joe67]

your right they're pagan holidays dressed up as Christian, The Catholic church is at the forefront of bringing most of the paganism into the church, and Idolaltry to an all time high, I think the SDA see Catholicism as the great harlot in Revelations......Their right in that teaching, but most of the reformation fails to see the harlot has daughters, I think SDA teaches all the daughters are those who don't keep the Sabath, that would be a good explaination, if keeping the Sabath was for all Christians according to scripture. You see I believe your supossed to keep the Sabath if in your heart you think its Gods command to you. but it is plainly written the gentiles received the Holy Spirit without conforming to any of the Jewish customs and laws, so the apostles decided on the laws the gentiles should keep, and it was refrain from sexual immorality, don't eat blood, and meat sacraficed to idols. In fact wwhen making the decision the apostles said why put them under a law even we can't keep. One of the first laws the Christians thought to institute against new converts was the law of circumcision. These new converts were indeed different, because they were gentiles, Paul says "If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?".......NOW who is still trying to withstsand God?....when you receive the Holy Spirit, it only can happen to someone who believes the gospel and is the gift, which is a deposit showing those who will inherit eternal life. So either the gentiles are saved by faith in Jesus alone, or they were in error and the disciples were in error not to put the Sabath day observence on them. because when its all said and done without Sabath observence you are not saved. yet what is really taught in the pages of truth.

realtruth,

Amen to your over-all witness concerning God's choice in whom he justifies and thereby saves. It pleases God to save those who he gives to believe in his Son, Jesus, at his right hand.

We are justified through faith/believing in Jesus, that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. The Father gives us peace with Himself in Jesus Christ.

We are saved by grace/the Father's chastening, because he has called us his children and purges us from our idolatry and iniquity in his preparation to receive us.

Peter made a similar statement (Who was I to withstand God) to those who were of the circumcision as they contended with him when he had returned to Jerusalem from ministering to Cornelius at Caesarea.

Joe