A tough questions for a blind man...

[k4c]

The seventh day was blessed, sanctified and called holy before it was used as a sign of a covenant. God protected the sabbath by putting in the law. The law says nothing about it being a sign of a covenant. The sabbath used as a sign of a covenant is found outside of the 10 commandments.

 

[realtruth101]

So are you saying your church has a complete and accurate understanding of all truth and everyone in your church is without sin?

what does the bible say about leadership, what does it say about those who teach.........there is criteria to be met, I'm not as concerned about the sins of the lay people in the church, we already know tares are grown up right along with the wheat...thats a given, what I am concerned about is what the leadership says, not only today but what they've said in the past, because we are also warned that wolves were going to come into the fold, even from your own number....(Acts 20:29-30) So when I see someone make prophecies and they don't pan out, and they change the date to a later time, and that don't pan out.....then they try to cover up and not acknowledge prophecies made.....well what does the bible say about prophets who prophecies don't come to pass?......So what should people do, continue to follow in the wake off a false prophetic witness! thats just crazy!

 

[realtruth101]

So what is the stand for SDA on Joseph Smith the prophet of God, do you accept him or not. Its a pretty simple question

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I also agree that moral law are intrinsic in human nature.

Really?

Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 7:13
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[Kira Light]

So what is the stand for SDA on Joseph Smith the prophet of God, do you accept him or not. Its a pretty simple question

If the SDAs accepted Joseph Smith, they would be Mormons..

 

[ricker]

The seventh day was blessed, sanctified and called holy before it was used as a sign of a covenant. God protected the sabbath by putting in the law. The law says nothing about it being a sign of a covenant. The sabbath used as a sign of a covenant is found outside of the 10 commandments.

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” 18 When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.


What am I missing here? Isn't this God's explanation of the Sabbath command given on the two tablets?

 

[k4c]

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” 18 When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.


What am I missing here? Isn't this God's explanation of the Sabbath command given on the two tablets?

The Ten Commandments are written in stone with God's own finger. They apply to all of mankind. God then uses the seventh day, which was first blessed, sanctified and called holy at creation and then placed in God's Law to protect it and goes one step further and uses the Sabbath as a sign of the covenant He makes with Israel. The seventh day was blessed and called holy at creation and protected by Law for all creation but not all God's creation need to use it as a sign of the covenant God made with Israel. But even though, it still testifies of a creation and it's Creator and is protected by Law above and beyond it's use as a sign of a covenant. Even Gentiles in the old covenant who wanted to honor God had to keep it holy, even though they were not part of the covenant. When you lie, murder, commit adultery, forget the Sabbath and so on you're breaking God's Law, not a covenant made with Israel. But even more important to understand, you're hurting relationships.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Even Gentiles in the old covenant who wanted to honor God had to keep it holy, even though they were not part of the covenant.

I would disagree that anyone that would have joined the worship of God through the keeping of the Law and the ordinances wouldn't have been part of the covenant. Remember, through Abraham, ALL nations were to be blessed through him. Anyone that would have obeyed God would have been one of His people and therefore part of the covenant.

 

[k4c]

I would disagree that anyone that would have joined the worship of God through the keeping of the Law and the ordinances wouldn't have been part of the covenant. Remember, through Abraham, ALL nations were to be blessed through him. Anyone that would have obeyed God would have been one of His people and therefore part of the covenant.

This will be a good topic for me to study more deeply, thanks brother.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

what does the bible say about leadership, what does it say about those who teach.........there is criteria to be met, I'm not as concerned about the sins of the lay people in the church, we already know tares are grown up right along with the wheat...thats a given, what I am concerned about is what the leadership says, not only today but what they've said in the past, because we are also warned that wolves were going to come into the fold, even from your own number....(Acts 20:29-30) So when I see someone make prophecies and they don't pan out, and they change the date to a later time, and that don't pan out.....then they try to cover up and not acknowledge prophecies made.....well what does the bible say about prophets who prophecies don't come to pass?......So what should people do, continue to follow in the wake off a false prophetic witness! thats just crazy!

Still making accusations without proof I see... if you have something, please share.

As far as Joseph Smith, his teachings don't agree with the Bible... 'nuff said.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

This will be a good topic for me to study more deeply, thanks brother.

NP... I'd be interested in the outcome of your study if you are lead to anything different. My understanding is based on how I read the passages concerning the covenant of Abraham and also knowing that the Egyptians and others that were with the Israelites were grafted into the fold.

 

[realtruth101]

Still making accusations without proof I see... if you have something, please share.

As far as Joseph Smith, his teachings don't agree with the Bible... 'nuff said.

Exactly! Joseph Smith is a false prophet, and his teachings don't line up with the bible.......that should be enough for good Christian people to leave the Mormon faith, but its not, there are alot of people who think the church has alot of good points and teachings and they remain in that branch even though they know full well the root was bad from the start. due to the rules of this forum, I cant post anything that goes against your church and doctrine, So you will have to seek the truth yourself, but from your stance in the situation I would imagine you would be alot like the folks in the LDS that stay regardless of the knowledge, that their faithful founder was an occultic practicing Mason, their Temples are full of satanic symbols, Well the sinful past of our founders really have no bearing on where the church is today!....That is where the error begins AGAIN! believing that somthing good will come from an evil root

 

[k4c]

Exactly! Joseph Smith is a false prophet, and his teachings don't line up with the bible.......that should be enough for good Christian people to leave the Mormon faith, but its not, there are alot of people who think the church has alot of good points and teachings and they remain in that branch even though they know full well the root was bad from the start. due to the rules of this forum, I cant post anything that goes against your church and doctrine, So you will have to seek the truth yourself, but from your stance in the situation I would imagine you would be alot like the folks in the LDS that stay regardless of the knowledge, that their faithful founder was an occultic practicing Mason, their Temples are full of satanic symbols, Well the sinful past of our founders really have no bearing on where the church is today!....That is where the error begins AGAIN! believing that somthing good will come from an evil root

You haven't answered my question yet. Does your church have an accurate and complete understanding of all truth? And are the people in your church without sin? If not, then you better leave that church too.

Secondly.

The guidelines for new testament prophecy is this. don't despise prophecy but hold on to that which is good. God says this because we prophesied in part. There is not one church that has all truth but some churches have more truth than others, even with all their baggage.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Exactly! Joseph Smith is a false prophet, and his teachings don't line up with the bible.......that should be enough for good Christian people to leave the Mormon faith, but its not, there are alot of people who think the church has alot of good points and teachings and they remain in that branch even though they know full well the root was bad from the start. due to the rules of this forum, I cant post anything that goes against your church and doctrine, So you will have to seek the truth yourself, but from your stance in the situation I would imagine you would be alot like the folks in the LDS that stay regardless of the knowledge, that their faithful founder was an occultic practicing Mason, their Temples are full of satanic symbols, Well the sinful past of our founders really have no bearing on where the church is today!....That is where the error begins AGAIN! believing that somthing good will come from an evil root

I have never read anything that contradicted with the scripture from Ellen White... expounded upon, yes, but never contradictory.

There were councils that she gave that some modern Adventists worship as salvational but which, while imbuing solid advice, is not mentioned in the Bible. I'm speaking of vegetarianism... advocating a healthier diet hardly qualifies her as a false prophet.

There is nowhere in her writings that minimizes the righteousness of Christ and she has said plainly that none of here writings were to be taken as council above the Bible. Don't know of any false prophets that have said that...

 

[realtruth101]

You haven't answered my question yet. Does your church have an accurate and complete understanding of all truth? And are the people in your church without sin? If not, then you better leave that church too.

Secondly.

The guidelines for new testament prophecy is this. don't despise prophecy but hold on to that which is good. God says this because we prophesied in part. There is not one church that has all truth but some churches have more truth than others, even with all their baggage.

First lets get one thing straight, according to the bible the church is the body of all believers, all believers everywhere are apart of the true church of Jesus Christ, divisions that follow men such as Calvinist, Lutherans, and other factions started by men who have private doctrine. You keep refering to sects and factions who gather together in the name of Christ as the church, Biblically these sects and factions wouldn't be reconized by the Apostles simply because of their name, many of these people are a part of the real church, but I don't believe the perfect little building where sinless Christians gather is a feasible possibility in an imperfect world. So does my church have a accurate and complete understanding of all truth? of course not, has Christ returned and made everything clear!, but more importantly what about the other side of that question, do you know of inaccuracies, and incomplete understanding in your church and you stay!.....thats the part I don't understand, I certainly would not stay and cause derision in a body of believers when what is taught is not biblical, (an example) I wouldn't stay in a Christian reformed church and lament about how unbiblical infant sprinkling baptism is when its part of their church doctrine, that wouldn't be the biblical right thing to do. I don't understand, if I was a Morman and someone told me I should do a little research on Joseph Smith the founder of my faith, because alot of things are unbiblical about the man and his life, the things he said, the prophecies he made. I would want to know what the real truth was......But like the Mormans, they put Joseph Smith on such a high pedastel that even the thought there could be heresy, would be enough to fight over. We see this same thing with the Pope, as if he is infallable, its ridiculas! yet no one will look behind the curtain, and see the great and mighty OZ, no body will do the homework to see if the faith they are following has a good root (not perfect) but not having a heretical founder either

 

[realtruth101]

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’” 18 When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.


What am I missing here? Isn't this God's explanation of the Sabbath command given on the two tablets?

In light of this scripture, If your going to use this text as a guide for truth regarding the Sabath, then wouldn't it also be correct to put people to death in your home or church that "does any work on the Sabath" I want to point out that if that day is as Holy today as it was when these commands were issued then are you keeping Gods word in regards to NOT ONLY the keeping of the Sabath but in regards to those who DON"T. because then you are only keeping part of the command and are in error, for he who breaks one command breaks them all

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

RT, many of us are new to Adventism and have come from other protestant denominations. I am well aware of the issues surrounding sister White. I have been to many websites that malign who she was and what she wrote.

The idea of a modern day messenger of God was new to me when I first looked into Adventism, so I checked into it and found that the accusations against her were flat out lies or refered to statements she made taken out of context completely. That initial investigation of Ellen White allowed me to experience reading alot of what she has written in the last five years and I am uplifted and more in love with Jesus than I ever have been in my life. Revelation does say that in the last days that men and women would dream dreams and have visions, so I don't see whay it would be beyond reason that she was indeed spoken to of God and given a message for His last day church.

Speaking of church, I think you will find that most of us on here feel the same way about the definition of what a church is. Personally, I do not attend a conference SDA church because of the apostacy that has crept in, I gather and fellowship with like minded brethren online for an hour everyday of the week, with Sabbath being completely about fellowship, worship and study... I do adhere to the pioneer teachings of Adventism, through whom, I believe, God set up the present truth message for our time.

 

[ricker]

Dont expect a reasonable response from some posters, they''ll have you chasing their spin of things and ignor your responses.

Thanks. Sometimes I just gotta stand up for common sense and the Bible, futile as it may be.

 

[ricker]

RT, many of us are new to Adventism and have come from other protestant denominations. I am well aware of the issues surrounding sister White. I have been to many websites that malign who she was and what she wrote.

The idea of a modern day messenger of God was new to me when I first looked into Adventism, so I checked into it and found that the accusations against her were flat out lies or refered to statements she made taken out of context completely. That initial investigation of Ellen White allowed me to experience reading alot of what she has written in the last five years and I am uplifted and more in love with Jesus than I ever have been in my life. Revelation does say that in the last days that men and women would dream dreams and have visions, so I don't see whay it would be beyond reason that she was indeed spoken to of God and given a message for His last day church.

Speaking of church, I think you will find that most of us on here feel the same way about the definition of what a church is. Personally, I do not attend a conference SDA church because of the apostacy that has crept in, I gather and fellowship with like minded brethren online for an hour everyday of the week, with Sabbath being completely about fellowship, worship and study... I do adhere to the pioneer teachings of Adventism, through whom, I believe, God set up the present truth message for our time.

Any luck finding where we Gentiles are inheritors of the law given to the nation of Israel through Moses? (We are inheritors of the Promise given to Abraham.)

 

[k4c]

Any luck finding where we Gentiles are inheritors of the law given to the nation of Israel through Moses? (We are inheritors of the Promise given to Abraham.)

There is only the old covenant and the new covenant. Tell me, who was the new covenant made with?