A thread on evolution

[Subduction Zone]

yes perhaps you got me there. But you have to admit, you guys sure know how to jest and belittle. Makes people defensive.

That is only because you guys work so hard to earn that.

Perhaps you could try to learn a little bit of the science that you hate so much.

 

[createdtoworship]

You have never proved anything.

see this post, my findings are there:

A thread on evolution

 

[createdtoworship]

OK grady. I made it through the whole of the "Atheist Delusion". I will gladly admit I was kinda harsh on poor Ray. But there was literally NOTHING in there that I had not heard before in a million different variants, some almost word-for-word.

I'm A-OK with Ray having his own faith and you having yours. I would NEVER want to take that blessing away from you. But Ray's approach (and your support of this) is kind of offputting. It is a superior haughtiness that is UNEARNED. He doesn't talk about ANYTHING in any technical detail but he wants people to think he is doing so. People who don't know anything about the technical details will be emboldened by this approach. But it's insulting to those of us who have actually formed our own worldview through hard fought study, thought, and self-examination.

He portrays atheism with the same facility he seems to treat DNA or anything in the sciences. He has a vague notion, a charicature of what it is and he attacks people based on this. He has to find kids because they aren't usually all that introspective and certainly haven't got the wherewithal to debate him point for point. Put him in front of some adults who HAVE formed their views through more thought.

If you and Ray want to live that life then BY ALL MEANS live it! Good for you! Good for Ray! But don't try to tell me what it is I believe or think, especially when it is such a vapid characterization.

Now, what part of Ray's video did YOU find most "compelling" from the science end of things?

his appeal is not for the "technical details" it's in the obvious, as the title of the movie shows. Elsewhere he calls it "common sense."

if it were technical, he would lose alot of people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

see this post, my findings are there:

A thread on evolution

You were simply wrong there. And you broke the rules.

 

[Subduction Zone]

his appeal is not for the "technical details" it's in the obvious, as the title of the movie shows. Elsewhere he calls it "common sense."

if it were technical, he would lose alot of people.

All that you have demonstrated with this video is that "common sense" is almost always wrong.

 

[pitabread]

But this OP is about evolution, not mine own positions.

Seems a bit contradictory. Why start a thread on a topic if you are refusing to discuss your views on that topic?

What else were you expecting? That a bunch of non-believers would watch that video and magically convert or something?

 

[pitabread]

if it were technical, he would lose alot of people.

Science is by its very nature a technical subject. One cannot expect to be reasonably informed about it, nor properly discuss it without attempting to do some of the legwork.

Do you really think that a person could take a completely non-technical approach to "disprove" something that is inherently technical in nature?

 

[createdtoworship]

I don't know what so many Christians think that Hitler was an atheist. If one studies him he appears to be a genuine Christian, one with very strange beliefs, but a Christian nonetheless. Hitler quite often claimed to be a Christian, he never claimed to be a Christian, and he convinced a mostly Christian country to elect him.

he was not an athiest, but other dictators were. I forget which one, perhaps stalin. Again I don't remember, but as far as hitler, there has been a work done by a phd historian that links hitlers acts to his view of evolution and view of humans.

https://archive.csustan.edu/history/faculty/weikart/Origins-of-Social-Darwinism-in-Germany.pdf

sorry that was was a little bit in the wrong direction , how about this one:

 

[createdtoworship]

Seems a bit contradictory. Why start a thread on a topic if you are refusing to discuss your views on that topic?

What else were you expecting? That a bunch of non-believers would watch that video and magically convert or something?

I will discuss you views as an evolutionist but not mine own view of ID. As I don't have questions about my own perspective, just yours.

 

[createdtoworship]

That is only because you guys work so hard to earn that.

Perhaps you could try to learn a little bit of the science that you hate so much.

I don't even need to. But I a have done it in the past. But to no avail either. This is a common sense approach.

 

[createdtoworship]

Science is by its very nature a technical subject. One cannot expect to be reasonably informed about it, nor properly discuss it without attempting to do some of the legwork.

Do you really think that a person could take a completely non-technical approach to "disprove" something that is inherently technical in nature?

reread your post, it makes several logical errors. Start with the fact that you said that Evolution is technical. When it basically can be reduced to very simple ideas, when you think about it. I would tell you my ideas of evolution but for the most part you would not like them.

 

[pitabread]

All that you have demonstrated with this video is that "common sense" is almost always wrong.

I think common sense is one of those things with limited applicability. It's fine for making snap decisions in everyday situations, especially where people are faced with incomplete information or keying off body language, past experience and so on.

But it tends to be far less useful when it comes to understanding or exploring a complex subject, particularly things in the sciences.

 

[createdtoworship]

I am surprised that Rayven Simone seems confused by standard Christian Soteriology and the concept of grace.

you seem confused on soteriology too, here I have a thread on that too...

Leaving salvation

 

[pitabread]

Start with the fact that you said that Evolution is technical. When it basically can be reduced to very simple ideas, when you think about it.

As someone who has studied it at the undergrad level, I can assure you it gets quite technical in nature particularly when intertwined with the rest of biology (i.e. genetics/genomics, developmental biology, etc).

I would tell you my ideas of evolution but for the most part you would not like them.

Considering your steadfast refusal to discuss anything related to your own views, I'm not expecting you to post your thoughts on evolution.

 

[pitabread]

I will discuss you views as an evolutionist but not mine own view of ID. As I don't have questions about my own perspective, just yours.

What are your questions?

 

[createdtoworship]

...I hope Jesus gives Ray a toaster for all this good work he's done here. All these young people saved!

now that you watched it, could I explain all that he did. Perhaps, but you don't get the emotion and the feel of it. Good for you. Glad you watched.

 

[Gene2memE]

yes perhaps you got me there. But you have to admit, you guys sure know how to jest and belittle. Makes people defensive.

Ridiculous statements deserve ridicule, and bad ideas exist to be destroyed.

Ray is, by all accounts, a lovely person who genuinely believes in what he is saying and in what he's doing.

The fact is though that he uses TERRIBLE arguments, fallacies GALORE, appeals to emotion and consequences and DISHONEST editing practices in his videos. And when called out on them, he just repeats them .

It's also clear that no matter how often, and how well, the basics of biology, or the concept of what atheism is and isn't are explained he REFUSES to understand. Ray has an ideological blockage: if the basics facts about reality come into conflict with his theological interpretation of the Bible, reality gets ignored (at best) or just flat out contradicted.

This is not an exaggeration. Ray has been tutored and corrected on early universe cosmology, evolutionary biology, moral philosophy and epistemology by some of the world's greatest living public educators - but is apparently impervious to any logic if it conflicts with his preconceived religious notions.

 

[createdtoworship]

As someone who has studied it at the undergrad level, I can assure you it gets quite technical in nature particularly when intertwined with the rest of biology (i.e. genetics/genomics, developmental biology, etc).



Considering your steadfast refusal to discuss anything related to your own views, I'm not expecting you to post your thoughts on evolution.

I have many thoughts on evolution, but mainly that on a micro level it's true. Getting over a virus, or cold for example. Immunities for example. But even though I got over a cold I am still human. Macro evolution claims that a monkey can become a man, or a bird into a dinosaur, or a dog like creature in to a whale. All extremely unlikely.

 

[createdtoworship]

Ridiculous statements deserve ridicule, and bad ideas exist to be destroyed.

Ray is, by all accounts, a lovely person who genuinely believes in what he is saying and in what he's doing.

The fact is though that he uses TERRIBLE arguments, fallacies GALORE, appeals to emotion and consequences and DISHONEST editing practices in his videos. And when called out on them, he just repeats them .

It's also clear that no matter how often, and how well, the basics of biology, or the concept of what atheism is and isn't are explained he REFUSES to understand. Ray has an ideological blockage: if the basics facts about reality come into conflict with his theological interpretation of the Bible, reality gets ignored (at best) or just flat out contradicted.

This is not an exaggeration. Ray has been tutored and corrected on early universe cosmology, evolutionary biology, moral philosophy and epistemology by some of the world's greatest living public educators - but is apparently impervious to any logic if it conflicts with his preconceived religious notions.

this coming from one who didn't even watch the video. I can tell.

 

[createdtoworship]

What are your questions?

you don't want to know. I have never seen it answered in 10 years.