A thought.

[RushMAN]

You don't listen very well but since you give the word of God no heed,

Did I this? No. Just because someone doesn't view the Bible like you do does not mean they give Holy Scriptures no heed, that is quite a leap to judgement just because I am not a part of your faith tradition.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Did I this? No. Just because someone doesn't view the Bible like you do does not mean they give Holy Scriptures no heed, that is quite a leap to judgement just because I am not a part of your faith tradition.

You just said you will not take God's word literaly.
That's the same as giving God no heed.
You refuse knowledge.
This is knowledge which you say you will not take literally.
Revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

 

[RushMAN]

You just said you will not take God's word literaly.
That's the same as giving God no heed.
You refuse knowledge.
This is knowledge which you say you will not take literally.
Revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

No I said I do not take the book of Revelation literally and that is not the same as say I give Scriptures no heed. Where does it say that we have to take everything in Scriptures literally? Just because you do doesn't mean everyone else has to. I have a very high view of Scriptures and that means actually understanding different genres that are in Holy Writ not just assuming everything therein is literal.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

Michael, I don't think that other interpretations are garbage, but I eagerly await Jesus' second coming when one of them will be shown to be true. However, I do subscribe to one of them plus panmillenialism; it'll all pan out!

 

[shilohsfoal]

No I said I do not take the book of Revelation literally and that is not the same as say I give Scriptures no heed. Where does it say that we have to take everything in Scriptures literally? Just because you do doesn't mean everyone else has to. I have a very high view of Scriptures and that means actually understanding different genres that are in Holy Writ not just assuming everything therein is literal.

John is being given an explanation of a vision that he saw so that he might understand what he saw.
If you do not wish to have any understanding of the vision then you should do as you are.
But some of us would like to understand johns vision so we gladly except all the knowledge the word of God would give us. In this case we are being told about the drunken harlot John saw and the beast that carries her. This is for a mind which has wisdom.

Revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

 

[RushMAN]

This is for a mind which has wisdom.

Part of wisdom is understand context, the time it was written in, and who it was written to. What is not wisdom is looking at something and automatically assuming it should be taken literally and for modern man.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Part of wisdom is understand context, the time it was written in, and who it was written to. What is not wisdom is looking at something and automatically assuming it should be taken literally and for modern man.

I know who the revelation is for and your right about one thing. It's not for you.
It is for the saints of tribulation. It is to inform them the things which must shortly come to pass. They are being told of the great reward that awaits them beyond thier persecution.

 

[RushMAN]

I know who the revelation is for and your right about one thing.

By your post no you don't. The Book of Revelation was written to first century Christians undergoing persecution from the Roman Empire. It was penned to give them hope, it was not penned to the 21st century Christian. That is what the OP was talking about all these silly ideas of future things going about when none of them are close to truth

 

[shilohsfoal]

By your post no you don't. The Book of Revelation was written to first century Christians undergoing persecution from the Roman Empire. It was penned to give them hope, it was not penned to the 21st century Christian.

So you believe those 1st century Christians were given eyes to be able to see and ears to be able to hear?
If that were so they should have understood it but for some reason they didn't.

God shall give knowledge to whom he will so that they will understand. It is for the saints to show them the tribulation they shall suffer and thier reward for overcoming.

 

[RushMAN]

So you believe those 1st century Christians were given eyes to be able to see and ears to be able to hear?
If that were so they should have understood it but for some reason they didn't.

Of course they did, they had the key to understand. St. John just couldn't write in plain language because the empire monitored what came out so he had to write in code and symbols that the Christians back than understood very well. It is moderns that don't understand and assume it means some future thing without looking at the historic record of what was happening at the time.

 

[eleos1954]

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

Revelation 1
New Living Translation
This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John,

 

[shilohsfoal]

Of course they did, they had the key to understand. St. John just couldn't write in plain language because the empire monitored what came out so he had to write in code and symbols that the Christians back than understood very well. It is moderns that don't understand and assume it means some future thing without looking at the historic record of what was happening at the time.

So I take it you believe this is code.

Revelation 18:24 KJV: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

You think John is trying to hide something here from the Romans?Perhaps you believe John fears the Romans?

 

[RushMAN]

So I take it you believe this is code.

Revelation 18:24 KJV: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

You think John is trying to hide something here from the Romans?

Yes, ones that 1st Century had the understanding of. St. John had to hide things or he would have paid the price for what they would consider subversion to the Empire

 

[shilohsfoal]

Yes, ones that 1st Century had the understanding of. St. John had to hide things or he would have paid the price for what they would consider subversion to the Empire

So you believe John was in fear of his life?
Are we talking about the same John who was sent to Patmos for being a heretic?
The same John who was being persecuted because of the word of God and his testimony of Jesus Christ? You believe that John was afraid to die?

John was about 99 years old when he wrote revelation and you think he was afraid to die.
Good grief, I would think he would have had his bags packed and ready to go by then.

 

[RushMAN]

So you believe John was in fear of his life?
Are we talking about the same John who was sent to Patmos for being a heretic?
The same John who was being persecuted because of the word of God and his testimony of Jesus Christ? You believe that John was afraid to die?

No, St. John was no fool either like modern evangelicals protestant tend to think without realizing it. Why would he place the entire church in jeopardy when things were already bad enough for them as it was there was no need to add more fuel to the fire. The letter was meant to boost not tear down if the Romans understood the letter would have never gotten off of patmos.

-------------------------------

I can see the problem to many think the letter is written to them in the modern era without really thinking through what the Church as a whole was going through and how bad it really was, it is a "what is in it for me attitude" instead of understanding the historic Church.

 

[shilohsfoal]

No, St. John was no fool either like modern evangelicals protestant tend to think without realizing it. Why would he place the entire church in jeopardy when things were already bad enough for them as it was there was no need to add more fuel to the fire. The letter was meant to boost not tear down if the Romans understood the letter would have never gotten off of patmos.

-------------------------------

I can see the problem to many think the letter is written to them in the modern era without really thinking through what the Church as a whole was going through and how bad it really was, it is a "what is in it for me attitude" instead of understanding the historic Church.

So you think John was putting the whole church in jeopardy by saying the same thing about Jerusalem as Jesus did in the gospel?
Why would the Romzns be offended if John called Jerusalem a harlot? He wouldn't be the first prophet to do so.
Revelation 18:24 KJV: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

[RushMAN]

So you think John was putting the whole church in jeopardy by saying the same thing about Jerusalem as Jesus did in the gospel?

Revelation 18:24 KJV: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Never said that. I am leaving this before I get mad and say something to get me in trouble. Every Christian isn't like you

 

[shilohsfoal]

Never said that. I am leaving this before I get mad and say something to get me in trouble. Every Christian isn't like you

Well some of us believe God.
As for John. He didn't write in the first century long forgotten code you speak of. He simply wrote what he was told to write and he didn't write what he was told not to.
But you don't believe anything in Revelation should be taken literally so you wouldn't believe this.

Revelation 1:19 Therefore write down the things you have seen, and the things that are, and the things that will happen after this.

 

[MostRadicalManEver]

By your post no you don't. The Book of Revelation was written to first century Christians undergoing persecution from the Roman Empire. It was penned to give them hope, it was not penned to the 21st century Christian. That is what the OP was talking about all these silly ideas of future things going about when none of them are close to truth

It looks like Jesus prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem withing the generation He was speaking too. So, it makes sense to me that maybe John the Revelator was writing Revelation before the destruction of Jerusalem. Audience relevance is important I would agree.

 

[MostRadicalManEver]

In terms of eschatology, I was wondering if anyone thought all the theories out there are total garbage, or all theories but the one they subscribe to are total garbage.

I was reflecting on Acts 1:7, and I think if this is the case, perhaps it's pointless to even look into eschatology at all. Perhaps the divisiveness and wide variety of theories causing immense confusion, may be a sign God is not teaching us anything on this, since God is not the author of confusion?

Just a thought though.

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
(Act 1:7)


I got caught up in eschatology quite a bit in 1995. I kept seeing holes in each position. It was as if God was telling me I was wasting my time. I believe eschatology has it's place in the kitchen, but our DOology is more what Jesus is looking for.

Which one are we going to hear the words "Well DONE good and faithful SERVant". !?