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A thought or two about Infant Baptism

bbbbbbb

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NOT a range of alternate possibilities. Rome no longer holds to limbus infantum. Only ONE possibilities for Rome. Baptize. Wrong here.
Have you not heard of the doctrine of Baptism by Desire? In a nutshell, if a person desires to be saved and to be baptized, but is otherwise prevented to be baptized, their desire to be baptized is accounted as the equivalent of baptism and, as in the case of the repentant thief on the cross, they will enter paradise (which, curiously, some folks think of it as not heaven, but purgatory, but I digress).
 
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BNR32FAN

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There is no normative way the Book of Acts links the Holy Spirit and Baptism. The gift of the HS may come immediately before baptism (Cornelius, Acts 10) immediately after baptism (Acts 8 & 19) or during (Acts 2, 9:17).
I was baptized at the age of 4 or 5. I had no idea of what was going on and it didn’t change me in the slightest. When I was 38 years old I came to Christ and received the Holy Spirit. I decided to get baptized a second time as a sort of pledge to God in my new found faith. But yes I agree the scriptures record people receiving the Holy Spirit before baptism and not receiving Him after baptism.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Have you not heard of the doctrine of Baptism by Desire? In a nutshell, if a person desires to be saved and to be baptized, but is otherwise prevented to be baptized, their desire to be baptized is accounted as the equivalent of baptism and, as in the case of the repentant thief on the cross, they will enter paradise (which, curiously, some folks think of it as not heaven, but purgatory, but I digress).
The thief on the cross may have been baptized. We don’t know either way.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Actually you don’t know that there is no example of infant baptism in the scriptures. You’re just assuming that the households that were recorded being baptized excluded babies.
We also assume wrongly that such households did not include slaves and servants who were legally required to do whatever their masters commanded, regardless of their personal inclinations or beliefs.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The thief on the cross may have been baptized. We don’t know either way.
You are correct. If he had been baptized, then his baptism didn't apparently amount for much given the fact that he had committed a serious crime which had led to the death sentence. John the Baptist refused to baptize the Pharisees, even though their deeds of righteousness far exceeded their countrymen,
 
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Ain't Zwinglian

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Have you not heard of the doctrine of Baptism by Desire?
Baptism is ordinary. The normal life of the Christian is to be baptized.

So is baptism optional for the Christian? Or better put is baptism optional for the adult Christian? This is not rocket science. Is baptism optional?
 
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bbbbbbb

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This is a simple question. Is baptism optional for the Christian?

I will be the first to answer. Baptism is NOT optional.
The actual question ought be "Is baptism optional for the unbeliever?" IOW, if one is a believer then it is not an option, but for unbelievers is baptism a requirement?
 
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BNR32FAN

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But the question is "why" since there is no Bible record of infant baptism and no reason to suspect that infants "make an appeal to God for a clean conscience" as per Peter's statement about baptism in 1 Peter 3?
I can answer that question “why?” Because it couldn’t hurt.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Baptism is ordinary. The normal life of the Christian is to be baptized.

So is baptism optional for the Christian? Or better put is baptism optional for the adult Christian? This is not rocket science. Is baptism optional?
Please see my above post.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I can answer that question “why?” Because it couldn’t hurt.
They are tons of things that couldn't hurt, so that is a really lame excuse. In the Orient syncretism is rampant. The common attitude is to add various images and statues to the pantheon of an individual's altar in their home. What harm is there in having statues of Vishnu, the Buddha, a crucifix, Mary, one's own ancestors, etc.. etc., etc.?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I pray that you will change your thinking.
The Eastern apostolic churches don’t believe in it either. The EOC believes in ancestral sin, that is, that we inherited Adam & Eve’s sinful nature but not the guilt of their sin.
 
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BNR32FAN

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They are tons of things that couldn't hurt, so that is a really lame excuse. In the Orient syncretism is rampant. The common attitude is to add various images and statues to the pantheon of an individual's altar in their home. What harm is there in having statues of Vishnu, the Buddha, a crucifix, Mary, one's own ancestors, etc.. etc., etc.?
That’s not really a good comparison since infant baptism doesn’t actually involve any sinful act and idolatry does.
 
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bbbbbbb

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It’s not forbidden in the scriptures.
There are tons of things not forbidden in the scripture. The usage of tobacco is not forbidden, nor the use of narcotics, nor the owning of slaves, nor polygamy. The list goes on and on and on. Just because something is not forbidden hardly makes it allowable.
 
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bbbbbbb

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That’s not really a good comparison since infant baptism doesn’t actually involve any sinful act and idolatry does.
If one places one's faith and hope for salvation in anything or anyone other than the person and work of Jesus Christ, then it is quite harmful. I don't know about you, but I have met many individuals whose only experience with Christianity was when their parents took them to a church and had them baptized. For them, that is their ticket out of hell.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Original sin is the doctrine that humanity inherited Adam and Eve's sinful nature and guilt as a result of their disobedience in the Garden of Eden, as described in the Bible, specifically in the book of Genesis. The passage that is most commonly referenced in this regard is Genesis 3:1-19, which tells the story of the Fall of Man and the first sin.

Other passages that may be used to support the doctrine of original sin include:

  • Romans 5:12-21, which compares the sin of Adam to the righteousness of Christ and explains how sin and death came into the world through Adam and how grace and eternal life come through Jesus.
  • Psalm 51:5, which states "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."
  • Ephesians 2:1-3 which speaks of being dead in sins and trespasses, following the course of this world, the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.
It's important to note that the concept of Original Sin is not shared by all Christians denominations.
Actually in Romans 5 Paul specifically state that death came to all men because all sinned. Not because they were guilty of Adam’s sin.

“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ezekiel 18 speaks about the guilt of sin.

““Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
 
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BNR32FAN

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If one places one's faith and hope for salvation in anything or anyone other than the person and work of Jesus Christ, then it is quite harmful. I don't know about you, but I have met many individuals whose only experience with Christianity was when their parents took them to a church and had them baptized. For them, that is their ticket out of hell.
But this still doesn’t make infant baptism a bad idea. The same could be said about receiving the Eucharist. Anyone who thinks they’re automatically saved just because they received the Eucharist but has no inward connection to Christ is sadly mistaken.
 
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bbbbbbb

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RCC alternatives???? But are they biblical. Salvation it totally up to Jesus ..... there are no man-made alternatives that can be "developed".
I will leave it up to you to determine if the various alternatives to the rite of baptism in the Catholic Church are acceptable. These are hardly new developments. Pope Gregory the Great authorized baptism using dust or dirt if there was no water available. Sprinkling of water instead of immersion has been permitted for centuries and has been a real benefit in frigid countries where baptism in the winter months would otherwise put the individual at serious health risk.
 
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bbbbbbb

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But this still doesn’t make infant baptism a bad idea. The same could be said about receiving the Eucharist. Anyone who thinks they’re automatically saved just because they received the Eucharist but has no inward connection to Christ is sadly mistaken.
That is the problem. These things, in and of themselves, are hardly bad, but only become bad when they are misunderstood and misinterpreted. The same could be said for reading the Bible. The Bible is a great book and, we believe, inspired by God Himself. That said, many have been led astray from a pure faith in Jesus Christ either through their personal reading or through erroneous teaching from others.
 
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