A thought or two about Infant Baptism

[SabbathBlessings]

Baptising infants is not a doctrine.

Sure it is. It is a belief held by scripture that if you repent and are baptized because you no longer want to live for yourself but instead live for Christ. It's a decision one makes that infant are not capable of making.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sure it is. It is a belief held by scripture that if you repent and are baptized because you no longer want to live for yourself but instead live for Christ. It's a decision one makes that infant are not capable of making.

It is a matter of perspective whether infant baptism is considered a doctrine or a practice. Some people believe that infant baptism is a doctrine because it is rooted in scriptural teachings and is an important aspect of certain Christian denominations' beliefs and teachings. Others consider it a practice because it is a ritual or ceremony that is performed in certain churches and denominations. Ultimately, whether infant baptism is considered a doctrine or a practice may depend on an individual's religious beliefs and understanding of the sacrament.

 

[bling]

There are various alternative interpretations of the concept of original sin in Christianity, but the traditional doctrine is based on the belief that all humans are born with a state of sin inherited from Adam and Eve, as described in the Bible in the book of Genesis.

One scripture that is often cited in support of the doctrine of original sin is Romans 5:12, which states: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned." This passage is understood to refer to the first man, Adam, and his disobedience in the Garden of Eden, which brought sin and death into the world for all mankind.

Stay with that one verse because the reason given is not “Adam sinned”, but it is “because all sinned”.

All mature adults do sin, but that is because there are now, with the knowledge of Good and Evil (written in the Law written on all mature adult’s hearts) a ton of ways to sin and our nature is no better than the nature Adam and Eve had.

Another passage often used to support the doctrine of original sin is Psalm 51:5, which says: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." This verse is understood to indicate that all people are born in a state of sin and in need of salvation.Another passage often used to support the doctrine of original sin is Psalm 51:5, which says: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." This verse is understood to indicate that all people are born in a state of sin and in need of salvation.

Additionally, the Bible teaches that all have sinned, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Amen to that, we have all sinned, so it is not Adam and Eve’s sin we are talking about.

Paul in the letter to the Romans is addressing the Christian adults in Rome, both Jew and Gentile.

It's important to note that the concept of original sin is central to the Christian belief in the need for salvation through Jesus Christ, and the understanding of the doctrine may vary among different Christian denominations.

The Original Sin Doctrine is not central to Christianity, since it is not addressed directly in the New Testament and comes about through a one-sided interpretation of scripture.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Stay with that one verse because the reason given is not “Adam sinned”, but it is “because all sinned”.

One verse alone?
That is a mistake.
Try the passage in which the one verse resides.
Context does help.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into this world, and through sin, death; so also death was transferred to all men, to all who have sinned. For even before the law, sin was in the world, but sin was not imputed while the law did not exist. Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses, even in those who have not sinned, in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come. But the gift is not entirely like the offense. For though by the offense of one, many died, yet much more so, by the grace of one man, Jesus Christ, has the grace and gift of God abounded to many. And the sin through one is not entirely like the gift. For certainly, the judgment of one was unto condemnation, but the grace toward many offenses is unto justification. For though, by the one offense, death reigned through one, yet so much more so shall those who receive an abundance of grace, both of the gift and of justice, reign in life through the one Jesus Christ. Therefore, just as through the offense of one, all men fell under condemnation, so also through the justice of one, all men fall under justification unto life. For, just as through the disobedience of one man, many were established as sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many shall be established as just. Now the law entered in such a way that offenses would abound. But where offenses were abundant, grace was superabundant. So then, just as sin has reigned unto death, so also may grace reign through justice unto eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. ​

Romans 5:12-21

Original sin is the doctrine in Christianity that says that all humans are born with a sinful nature because of the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as stated in the Bible in the book of Genesis. It teaches that because of this original sin, all humans are in need of salvation through Jesus Christ. The concept of original sin is also present in the teachings of other Abrahamic religions such as Islam and Judaism. In Christianity, it is believed that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ offers redemption for original sin and the opportunity for eternal life for those who believe in him.

 

[BobRyan]

Baptising infants is not a doctrine.

so then nobody teaches that??

 

[BobRyan]

SabbathBlessings said:
If infants were supposed to be baptized, we would see an example of it in scripture.

Let's apply that to another subject.

If church buildings were supposed to be built, we would see an example of it in scripture.

We do
1. Synagogues
2. Home churches

But we also see places of prayer where the had no structure at all as in Acts 13.

By contrast we have an actual command in scripture to baptize and it is with these details
1. Teach them all I commanded you - Matt 28
2. Repent and be Baptized - Acts 2
3. "The appeals to God for a clean conscience" is the core of what "saves' as it relates to Baptism - 1 Peter 3.

So not exactly a "Mobile phone" side topic.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

so then nobody teaches that??

Infant baptism is both a practice and a doctrine within Christianity. As a practice, infant baptism refers to the act of baptizing a child who is too young to make a personal profession of faith. The practice of infant baptism has a long history in Christianity, with some evidence suggesting that it dates back to the second century AD.

As a doctrine, infant baptism refers to the belief that the sacrament of baptism can and should be administered to infants. This doctrine is based on the belief that baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins and the regeneration of the individual, and that these blessings are not limited to adults who can make a personal profession of faith.

Different Christian denominations have different beliefs and practices regarding infant baptism. Some denominations, such as the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, and Anglican Communion, practice infant baptism and consider it to be an essential sacrament for salvation. Other denominations, such as the Anabaptists and Baptists, practice believer's baptism and consider it necessary for an individual to make a personal profession of faith before being baptized.

In summary, infant baptism is both a practice and a doctrine within Christianity, where the practice is the actual act of baptizing an infant, and the doctrine is the belief that baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins and the regeneration of the individual, and that it should be administered to infants.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

We do
1. Synagogues
2. Home churches

But we also see places of prayer where the had no structure at all as in Acts 13.

By contrast we have an actual command in scripture to baptize and it is with these details
1. Teach them all I commanded you - Matt 28
2. Repent and be Baptized - Acts 2
3. "The appeals to God for a clean conscience" is the core of what "saves' as it relates to Baptism - 1 Peter 3.

So not exactly a "Mobile phone" side topic.

Christians began building churches as soon as Christianity became a separate religion from Judaism. According to the Bible, the earliest Christians gathered in homes for worship and to share meals. They also met in synagogues, which were Jewish places of worship. As Christianity grew and became more established, it is likely that early Christians began constructing buildings specifically for use as places of worship, although the Bible does not specifically mention any church buildings.

The first recorded instance of a Christian church building is from the 4th century AD, when Emperor Constantine the Great, converted to Christianity and began to support the building of churches. Some of the oldest surviving church buildings from the 4th century include: the Basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome, St. Peter's Basilica, also in Rome and the Basilica of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

It is worth noting that the concept of a "church" as a physical building was not present in the early days of Christianity, as the word "church" in the New Testament refers to the assembly of believers, not to a physical structure.

 

[Jonaitis]

Baptising infants is not a doctrine.

Yes it is. Well, at least in Protestant theology. It is also the main point of difference between the Baptist denomination and the Presbyterian denomination other than their ecclesiastical function. Besides these points, they are basically the same. Where Protestant denominations argue is not on merely the "historical" side of it, but the covenant understanding behind it. You will find this the common premise for the earliest Protestant denominations for the defense/opposition for infant baptism. It had a covenant framework deeply interwoven.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes it is. Well, at least in Protestant theology. It is also the main point of difference between the Baptist denomination and the Presbyterian denomination other than their ecclesiastical function. Besides these points, they are basically the same.

Presbyterians are Calvinists - in the main - while this is not so for Baptists.

 

[Jonaitis]

Presbyterians are Calvinists - in the main - while this is not so for Baptists.

Calvinism is a tradition, not a denomination. There are Calvinist traditions in all Protestant denominations except for Lutherans (and most of them began as such). I see that you know very little about Protestant history.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Calvinism is a tradition, not a denomination. There are Calvinist traditions in all Protestant denominations except for Lutherans (and most of them began as such). I see that you know very little about Protestant history.

Calvinism is a branch of Protestantism that follows the theological teachings of John Calvin, a 16th century French theologian and pastor. It emphasizes the sovereignty of God, the depravity of humanity, and the concept of predestination, where God has predetermined who will be saved and who will not. It also stresses the importance of individual piety and the Bible as the ultimate authority in matters of faith and practice. Calvinism has had a significant impact on the development of various Protestant denominations, including Presbyterianism, the Reformed Church, and Congregationalism.

 

[Jonaitis]

Calvinism is a branch of Protestantism that follows the theological teachings of John Calvin, a 16th century French theologian and pastor. It emphasizes the sovereignty of God, the depravity of humanity, and the concept of predestination, where God has predetermined who will be saved and who will not. It also stresses the importance of individual piety and the Bible as the ultimate authority in matters of faith and practice. Calvinism has had a significant impact on the development of various Protestant denominations, including Presbyterianism, the Reformed Church, and Congregationalism.

I don't know why you're laughing. What you have posted does not contradict anything I have said.

Are you not aware of Calvinist churches among those such as the Anglican, Methodist, and Baptist? Have you not learned some of their earliest backgrounds were deeply rooted in Calvinism? God is witness between us, and I put him to witness against your words that you know very little about our history from what you have posted. You can laugh at it, but it doesn't change facts.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I don't know why you're laughing.

I laughed at the comment about your perception of my knowledge of protestant church history.

 

[Jonaitis]

I laughed at the comment about your perception of my knowledge of protestant church history.

My perception is based on your comment about it.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

My perception is based on your comment about it.

And I laughed.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

(staff edit)

There are several passages in the New Testament that have been used to justify the practice of infant baptism. One of the main passages is Acts 2:38-39, where Peter is preaching to a crowd on the Day of Pentecost and says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." This passage suggests that the promise of salvation through baptism is not limited to adults, but also extends to "children" and "all who are far off."

Another passage that is often cited is Colossians 2:11-12, where Paul writes, "In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." This passage describes baptism as a form of spiritual circumcision, which in the Old Testament was performed on males at eight days old.

Additionally, in the Gospel of Luke 18:15-16, Jesus is approached by parents who bring their children to him to be blessed. Jesus lays his hands on the children and blesses them, and the disciples rebuked the parents for bringing them. But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." This passage suggests that Jesus welcomes and blesses children, which is often interpreted as an endorsement of infant baptism.

It's worth noting that the Bible doesn't contain a specific command or example of infant baptism, but these passages were interpreted by the early Church as allowing or even promoting the practice.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

(staff edit)

It may be useful to take into consideration how Catholics view holy scripture.

The Catholic Church holds that the Bible is the inspired word of God, and that it is the primary source of revelation for the faith and practice of the Church. The Bible is composed of the Old and New Testaments, and is divided into 73 books, 46 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is not only a collection of texts, but also a living word that speaks to the faithful through the Holy Spirit. The Bible is considered to be the foundation of Catholic theology and contains all that is necessary for salvation.

The Catholic Church also holds that the Bible is to be interpreted in light of the Church's tradition and the teaching authority of the Magisterium, which is the teaching office of the Church. This means that the Church's official teachings and interpretations of the Bible are considered to be authoritative and are an important part of understanding the Bible's message.

In summary, the Catholic Church views the Holy Scripture as the inspired word of God, the primary source of revelation for the faith and practice of the Church, that is interpreted in light of the Church's tradition and the teaching authority of the Magisterium.

 

[eleos1954]

The doctrine of baptismal regeneration teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation and that it washes away original sin. This belief is supported by several passages in the New Testament.

One of the most commonly cited passages is Mark 16:16, which states: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." This verse suggests that belief and baptism are both necessary for salvation.

Another passage that is often used to support the doctrine of baptismal regeneration is 1 Peter 3:21, which says: "And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." This verse indicates that baptism is not just a physical ritual, but a pledge of a good conscience towards God and it saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Additionally, Acts 22:16, Paul recounts his conversion experience, and he says: "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name." This verse also suggests that baptism washes away sins.

It's important to note that the understanding of the role of baptism in salvation may vary among different Christian denominations. Some believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, while others believe that faith in Jesus Christ is the sole requirement for salvation, and baptism is a symbol of that faith or a sacrament that gives access to grace.

It is the blood of Jesus that takes away sins .... not water.

sacraments are religious ceremonies .... Jesus saves through His blood ... not through or by a ceremony.

Water baptism is not a requirement ... it is a symbol of one's faith ... in that they have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

 

[bling]

One verse alone?
That is a mistake.
Try the passage in which the one verse resides.
Context does help.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into this world, and through sin, death; so also death was transferred to all men, to all who have sinned. For even before the law, sin was in the world, but sin was not imputed while the law did not exist. Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses, even in those who have not sinned, in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come. But the gift is not entirely like the offense. For though by the offense of one, many died, yet much more so, by the grace of one man, Jesus Christ, has the grace and gift of God abounded to many. And the sin through one is not entirely like the gift. For certainly, the judgment of one was unto condemnation, but the grace toward many offenses is unto justification. For though, by the one offense, death reigned through one, yet so much more so shall those who receive an abundance of grace, both of the gift and of justice, reign in life through the one Jesus Christ. Therefore, just as through the offense of one, all men fell under condemnation, so also through the justice of one, all men fall under justification unto life. For, just as through the disobedience of one man, many were established as sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many shall be established as just. Now the law entered in such a way that offenses would abound. But where offenses were abundant, grace was superabundant. So then, just as sin has reigned unto death, so also may grace reign through justice unto eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. ​

Romans 5:12-21

You are the one who said: “One scripture that is often cited in support of the doctrine of original sin is Romans 5:12”

Is physical death bad in and of itself?

This messed up world is rewarding, but hard on Christian, so do you look forward to the rest in heaven?

Death along with Christ going to the cross, disasters of all kinds, satan roaming the earth, hell, sin and heaven are all caused or allowed by God to best help willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

The fact we will all die at some time and there is a judgement encourages us to prepare sooner than later. Death is needed to help humans in fulfilling their objective, which Adam and Eve did not fulfill prior to sinning and being under the fact of death.

Death is one of many blessing for humans on earth today.

Original sin is the doctrine in Christianity that says that all humans are born with a sinful nature because of the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as stated in the Bible in the book of Genesis. It teaches that because of this original sin, all humans are in need of salvation through Jesus Christ. The concept of original sin is also present in the teachings of other Abrahamic religions such as Islam and Judaism. In Christianity, it is believed that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ offers redemption for original sin and the opportunity for eternal life for those who believe in him.

The Bible only says the knowledge changed of Aam and Eve and not their nature. Yes, going from one way to sin to a ton of ways to sin would increase the amount of sinning, but that is not a change in their nature. Ro. 5 says nothing about the nature of humans changing. We really need to quit blaming Adam & Eve. Where does the Bible say infants are hell bound?

Christ died for all sins and not just Adam and Eve’s sin. God has both the power and Love to forgive all but the unforgivable sin.