A take on the Trinity

[Extirpated Wildlife]

I want to make sure I think I have this right, because it sound so much more simple than people want to make it out to be. There seems to be a fear in the reality of what the Trinity is that really doesn't have to exist.

Heritage dictionary definitions:

Essence - The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things.

Class - A set, collection, group, or configuration containing members regarded as having certain attributes or traits in common; a kind or category.



The God Class is one in essence.

The God class is made only of 3 sub-classes.

1) Father

2) Son

3) Holy Spirit

Each subclass of the super class, God, has its own behaviors and actions, but they are all equal in essence. The Father doesn't do what the Son does. The Son doesn't do what the Holy Spirit does. And the Holy Spirit doesn't do what the Father does. Also, The Father isn't the Son, the Son isn't the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit isn't the Father.

So what we have is 3 Gods, but Their essence is equal. So when saying "I believe in one God", we are saying a true statement but what is really being said is "I believe in one God class" because the reality is we have 3 Gods that are subclasses of the super class God.

What do you think?

 

[Gwenyfur]

I want to make sure I think I have this right, because it sound so much more simple than people want to make it out to be. There seems to be a fear in the reality of what the Trinity is that really doesn't have to exist.

Heritage dictionary definitions:

Essence - The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things.

Class - A set, collection, group, or configuration containing members regarded as having certain attributes or traits in common; a kind or category.



The God Class is one in essence.

The God class is made only of 3 sub-classes.

1) Father

2) Son

3) Holy Spirit

Each subclass of the super class, God, has its own behaviors and actions, but they are all equal in essence. The Father doesn't do what the Son does. The Son doesn't do what the Holy Spirit does. And the Holy Spirit doesn't do what the Father does. Also, The Father isn't the Son, the Son isn't the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit isn't the Father.

So what we have is 3 Gods, but Their essence is equal. So when saying "I believe in one God", we are saying a true statement but what is really being said is "I believe in one God class" because the reality is we have 3 Gods that are subclasses of the super class God.

What do you think?

sounds like J2EE to me....especially if you call the program "GOD" and the classes doing the work are Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Interesting way to phrase it....

 

[Carrye]

Each subclass of the super class, God, has its own behaviors and actions, but they are all equal in essence. The Father doesn't do what the Son does. The Son doesn't do what the Holy Spirit does. And the Holy Spirit doesn't do what the Father does. Also, The Father isn't the Son, the Son isn't the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit isn't the Father.

So what we have is 3 Gods, but Their essence is equal. So when saying "I believe in one God", we are saying a true statement but what is really being said is "I believe in one God class" because the reality is we have 3 Gods that are subclasses of the super class God.

What do you think?

I think you go wrong by using "class." When we say "I believe in one God" we mean "I believe in one God" who we call Lord - Deut 5:6.

The name Father, or Son, or Holy Spirit is typically given based upon activity, but that is not the reason they are differentiated. If we say that God is one, but takes different forms, that is the old heresy of modalism.

You're right in saying that the Father isn't the Son, and the Son isn't the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit isn't the Father. Each person of the Holy Trinity is equal in divinity and majesty, and united in the Godhead (in essence).

By "their essence" you mean the essence of the Godhead. There is but one essence in any one thing. When we say that Christ is "of one being with the Father," another translation is "of one essence" with the Father . . . depending on if you translate the Latin or the Greek.

So to answer your question, no, we do not have three gods - we are monotheists. We profess that we believe in one God who exists in three divine persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Extirpated Wildlife]

deleted

 

[novcncy]

Carrye,

So your saying when Jesus says he prays to the Father that actually God is praying to himself? No I gather your not.

I don't understand what is so different from you last statement and mine statements except you seem nervous to say there really is three seperate Gods that are of one essence.

Careful that you don't try to draw Carrye into a debate, as she's not in her own forum. That said, don't put words in her mouth either. Perhaps God was indeed praying to Himself, just as the Bible indicates. Part of Jesus' prayer is to demonstrate for us the walk we must have with the Father, and part of that is prayer. Also, Jesus was human, and prayer to the Father was an integral part of his perfect sinlessness that otherwise was impossible. The Son is obedient to the Father, even when his humanity longed to do otherwise.

What is prayer, really? The Bible tells us that God knows what we need before we ask it, so why even pray? Perhaps that is the real question, because we know that there is most definitely only one God, and not three. John 1 tells us "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by Him, and without him, was not anything made that was made." Jesus made the claim that He was God, he said "before Abraham was, I AM" and for this assertion, the people wanted to stone Him. There is a myriad of Biblical support against the position that there are actually three gods comprising the trinity, but those two examples are sufficient.

We could have quite the discussion on this, I am certain, but not here. Unless there is a Baptist/AnaBaptist who believes in three Gods, (and I'm wondering if that concept even agrees with something as elementary as the Nicene Creed), I don't think you're going to find anyone to take the bait.

 

[Extirpated Wildlife]

Actually I was just about to retract it. Wish I would have not stated that since I was breached my original intent.

Anyway, Sorry Carry. I thank you for you reply.

 

[Athanasian Creed]

I want to make sure I think I have this right, because it sound so much more simple than people want to make it out to be. There seems to be a fear in the reality of what the Trinity is that really doesn't have to exist.

Heritage dictionary definitions:

Essence - The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things.

Class - A set, collection, group, or configuration containing members regarded as having certain attributes or traits in common; a kind or category.



The God Class is one in essence.

The God class is made only of 3 sub-classes.

1) Father

2) Son

3) Holy Spirit

Each subclass of the super class, God, has its own behaviors and actions, but they are all equal in essence. The Father doesn't do what the Son does. The Son doesn't do what the Holy Spirit does. And the Holy Spirit doesn't do what the Father does. Also, The Father isn't the Son, the Son isn't the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit isn't the Father.

So what we have is 3 Gods, but Their essence is equal. So when saying "I believe in one God", we are saying a true statement but what is really being said is "I believe in one God class" because the reality is we have 3 Gods that are subclasses of the super class God.

What do you think?

Actually God is a BEING not a class.

Within the Being of God exists three distinct (NOT seperate) Divine Persons who share the essence of the God Being (co-equal/co-eternal) and the characteristics of God (omni-present, scient, potent) Same substance, differing in subsistence.

Although the Hebrew word used for God in places such as Genesis, Elohim, literally means "Gods" it is referring to the plurality of God in the One Being, not referring to 3 Gods.

In the Sh'ma (Dueteronomy 6:4) it states -

Shema Yisraˆl, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod, "Hear, Israel, Jehovah, our God,is one Jehovah." Notice the use of the Hebrew word "aichod" (as opposed to the same Hebrew word "echad") Both mean "one" however, Moses, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit uses the word "aichod" which means a UNITED one rather than "echad" meaning a COMPOUND one (plural rather than singular) In the Zohar (sacred Jewish commentary) Simeon Ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim: there are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other."


Ray

 

[Zacharias]

Here's a neat view:


"in the body of the sun [G~d], there are the substance of the sun [Father], the beams [Son], and the heat [Holy Spirit]; the beams [Son] are begotten of the sun [Father], the heat [Holy Spirit] proceeds from the sun [Father]; but these three, though different, are not divided; they all three make but one sun [G~d]: so in the blessed Trinity, the Son is begotten of the Father, the Holy Ghost proceeds from Father; yet though they are three distinct persons, they are but one G~d."

 

[Flynmonkie]

This might be too simple but I remember my pastor saying "think of a pretzel with three holes" Each part (hole's in bread= Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is distinct within one (the pretzel =God).

 

[Maeyken]

heehee I like that pretzel analogy... nice and simple. I think that's a good way to explain it to someone who's never heard the concept of the trinity.

I like that sun version too- to me it really helps make the connection between the "parts" of God, while at the same time explaining the distinctness of the parts.