A Step Away From China - Is Trump Really Wrong?

[civilwarbuff]

Except when we automate. It's the jobs that won't come back, not the manufacturing.

Still gotta have people who know how to build, install and fix the machines when they go berserk...

 

[mark46]

I strongly agree that we should recognize the shame of US history with regard to treatment of many minorities, and the shame of much of current policy.

It doesn't follow that we should not complement or criticize others.

Hi mark,

So how do we represent all the blacks that, by law, had to ride in the back of the bus and drink from separate fountains and couldn't go to 'white' schools? How come people don't see that the U.S. had pretty much the same civil rights record as China? We used to hang black people from trees like fruit for crying out loud. And it was ok!!!! You could kill a black person in cold blooded murder and it was alright.!!!! China has a poor civil rights record? I don't think that it's much worse than ours was at one time. Now, admittedly it's not the same today, but that surely doesn't make us some saint vs. the devil in this matter.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[mark46]

build?

In any case, lots of designing, building, installation, inspection, and fixing is by machine.

An ever decreasing number of humans workers are needed. Of course, the remaining few are paid relatively well.

Still gotta have people who know how to build, install and fix the machines when they go berserk...

 

[civilwarbuff]

build?

In any case, lots of designing, building, installation, inspection, and fixing is by machine.

And of course you have solid citations backing that up, right?

 

[RDKirk]

Cool....maybe that means some of the manufacturing we lost to China may come back here.

More likely, they will move to Vietnam or Malaysia.

 

[RDKirk]

Just for laughs: How communist is China, anyway?

While the Chinese government is still considered a communist government, the country is not run as a communist government generally runs a country. There is very little of the old Soviet Russia or N. Korea mirrored in the Chinese government. While it still maintains that it operates with the 'iron fist' generally associated with Communist regimes, it's really fairly laid back in allowing free trade and production ownership by individuals. Even the riots going on in Hong Kong today, are not being handled as a Communist nation 50 years ago would have handled such a development.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Well, the thing is that the USSR and North Korea were never very Communist (North Korea is downright fascist). China operates more like a functional Communist economy than either of those other states.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Just for laughs: How communist is China, anyway?

While the Chinese government is still considered a communist government, the country is not run as a communist government generally runs a country. There is very little of the old Soviet Russia or N. Korea mirrored in the Chinese government. While it still maintains that it operates with the 'iron fist' generally associated with Communist regimes, it's really fairly laid back in allowing free trade and production ownership by individuals. Even the riots going on in Hong Kong today, are not being handled as a Communist nation 50 years ago would have handled such a development.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Well, Tianenman Square would certainly dispute your definition of a communist run country and I believe the recent activity in Hong Kong may very well settle that dispute for good.

 

[mark46]

sorry,

There are many college courses on automation and how it works. Citations? Sorry. This was part of my coursework over 50 years ago when I was a member of the AAAS.

And of course you have solid citations backing that up, right?

 

[miamited]

Well, the thing is that the USSR and North Korea were never very Communist (North Korea is downright fascist). China operates more like a functional Communist economy than either of those other states.

Hi RD,

Well, I certainly appreciate that's your position, however, the web site I linked doesn't agree.

From other sites: For decades North Korea has been one of the world's most secretive societies. It is one of the few countries still under nominally communist rule ... (Report from the BBC)

Since the present leader is a third-generation Kim, that would make North Korea the world's only Communist dynasty. (rational wiki)

So again, I appreciate that you hold them to be more fascist, and I honestly don't know why they couldn't have fairly large parts of both political ideologies, but... N. Korea is listed and understood by most as to their form of governance, as being communist. Just as China is. But China is certainly less communist than N. Korea. According to thoughtco.com, the last remaining communist countries of the world are Vietnam, Laos, China, Cuba and N. Korea. If one just googles 'communist countries of the world', all five of those nations will come up as understood to be governed by communist principles.

Admittedly, Russia has moved away from the communist form of government, but Karl Marx established the very definition of communism in Russia.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[RDKirk]

Hi RD,

Well, I certainly appreciate that's your position, however, the web site I linked doesn't agree.

From other sites: For decades North Korea has been one of the world's most secretive societies. It is one of the few countries still under nominally communist rule ... (Report from the BBC)

Since the present leader is a third-generation Kim, that would make North Korea the world's only Communist dynasty. (rational wiki)

"Communist dynasty" is an oxymoron. The fact that it is a dynasty means it can't be communist.

 

[miamited]

"Communist dynasty" is an oxymoron. The fact that it is a dynasty means it can't be communist.

Hi RD,

Isn't any long standing family led government considered a 'dynasty'? We had the Bush dynasty right here in America. I think you may be confusing the definition of the word 'dynasty' as it is being used here.

a succession of rulers of the same line of descent.

I'm not really clear on how such an occurrence would disqualify a government from being communist in ideology.

In political and social sciences, communism is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.

Explain to me please why a grandfather, father and son having rule over a nation which is structured upon the ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state, cannot be. Is there something in the definition of communism that precludes the leaders from being members of the same family? If so, then we're going to have to remove Cuba from the list also.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[KCfromNC]

very true but the market/economy tries to anticipate political moves. Getting a business friendly president will move the economy in a positive direction especially after 8 years of a president who was heavily into regulating virtually everything....or so it seemed.

Interesting claim given the context of the thread plus the chart in post 49 showing how manufacturing jobs improved while this was going on. Something's not lining up with reality here, and I'm not talking about the chart in post 49.

 

[Speedwell]

Still gotta have people who know how to build, install and fix the machines when they go berserk...

That's right, technicians and people in the skilled trades. But the old, relatively high paid semi-skilled factory jobs are never coming back.

 

[miamited]

Interesting claim given the context of the thread plus the chart in post 49 showing how manufacturing jobs improved while this was going on. Something's not lining up with reality here, and I'm not talking about the chart in post 49.

Hi KC,

I would have to agree that something isn't lining up in this claim. I'm assuming, since names were not given, that the one who 'over regulated' for eight years is President Obama. Yet, under that 8 year period of 'over regulation', the U.S. economy roared back non-stop from what it was when President Obama was handed over leadership. It would seem to me that the economy has been moving in a positive direction for a lot longer than the mere 2.5 years that President Trump has been providing this 'business friendly' atmosphere.

But hey, what do I know?

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[RDKirk]

Hi RD,

Isn't any long standing family led government considered a 'dynasty'? We had the Bush dynasty right here in America. I think you may be confusing the definition of the word 'dynasty' as it is being used here.

a succession of rulers of the same line of descent.

I'm not really clear on how such an occurrence would disqualify a government from being communist in ideology.

In political and social sciences, communism is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.

Explain to me please why a grandfather, father and son having rule over a nation which is structured upon the ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state, cannot be. Is there something in the definition of communism that precludes the leaders from being members of the same family? If so, then we're going to have to remove Cuba from the list also.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

To mention Cuba first, in Cuba we've only seen one generation in power. There isn't sign of a Castro scion taking over from this first generation. Nor is there sign of a system being installed to make that happen.

North Korea is not Communist, North Korea is fascist. These are the core principles of fascism as it was defined by Hitler and Mussolini themselves:

1. Organicism. This is the concept that the people of the nation form an organic whole, the Volk. This usually also requires some salient factor of homogeneity, such as race or religion. The Volk has a single will, a national will, under which all individual wills are subsumed. Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will" was about the triumph of the German national will over the individual wills of the German people.

2. Absolutism. This is the principle that a single leader can fully embody the national will of the Volk, and that the national will of the Volk operates through him. This is the Fuhrerprinzip.

3. Irrationalism. This is the principle that when the will of the Volk has triumphed over the wills of the individuals, and when the leader --Il Duce or Der Fuhrer--who embodies that will has taken power, then there is no need for individual rationalism to have any part in the direction of government. Only the dictates of the leader matter.

This is counter to Communist theory. But it's precisely how North Korea is run. The Kim family has very certainly set up an entire mystical mythology around itself. To some extent, the Kim family builds on the heritage of Confucianism, which also idolizes the concept of "Inspired Leader."

There is no absence of social class in North Korea--but there is the concentration of social class--there is a Nomenclatura in North Korea just as there was one in the USSR, except that membership in the Nomenclatura is by sole dictate of Kim rather than through bureaucracy as it was in the USSR.

 

[civilwarbuff]

"Communist dynasty" is an oxymoron. The fact that it is a dynasty means it can't be communist.

I have heard it referred to as a criminal enterprise.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

But hey, what do I know?

Obama And The Dem's Dismal Recovery

Rex Sinquefield Former Contributor
Opinion
I focus on pro-growth, free market tax reform solutions in states.

The Obama recovery of the last seven years remains the worst in postwar American history. Average gross domestic product (GDP) growth since the bottom of the recession in 2009 was barely above 2.1% per year. The average since 1949 is well above 4% per year during the previous 10 expansions.
Obama And The Dem's Dismal Recovery

 

[civilwarbuff]

sorry,

There are many college courses on automation and how it works. Citations? Sorry. This was part of my coursework over 50 years ago when I was a member of the AAAS.

When our fluoroscopic C-arm would break down we would pick up the phone and call Philips; they would send someone to come fix it. Fast forward 30 years and when our fluoroscopic C-arm would break down we would pick up the phone and call Philips and they would send someone to fix it. Automation is good for simple repetitive tasks but nothing beats human hands and brains when diagnosing and repairing complex equipment....someday....maybe....

 

[Speedwell]

When our fluoroscopic C-arm would break down we would pick up the phone and call Philips; they would send someone to come fix it. Fast forward 30 years and when our fluoroscopic C-arm would break down we would pick up the phone and call Philips and they would send someone to fix it. Automation is good for simple repetitive tasks but nothing beats human hands and brains when diagnosing and repairing complex equipment....someday....maybe....

That someday is closer than you think. Mind you, humans will always be involved, just better trained and more capable of critical thinking.

 

[civilwarbuff]

That someday is closer than you think. Mind you, humans will always be involved, just better trained and more capable of critical thinking.

Maybe but not likely in my lifetime......I have been hearing that my entire working life....not there yet...not even close......