A Step Away From China - Is Trump Really Wrong?

[Belk]

You wanted an example and I gave it to you.

You did. Thank you.

If you disagree with it just say so and why........

I don't disagree, I am simply seeking clarification. I do not see corporate ownership as something we normally handle through trade agreements nor does this strike me as something Trumps approach is going to resolve.

 

[Kentonio]

His strategy is very clear by now (and is being mirrored by UK conservatives with Brexit). All you do is promise/insist on something that sounds great but which is impossible, then when other people point out that you’re being crazy, you blame those people for why what you promised/demanded isn’t delivered.

And it keeps working, sadly.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't disagree, I am simply seeking clarification. I do not see corporate ownership as something we normally handle through trade agreements nor does this strike me as something Trumps approach is going to resolve.

It is a Chinese policy (maybe a law) so the only real way to handle it is through trade negotiations (harder to go back on a signed, public agreement). Remember, China is still communist and anything that smacks of the Communist Party giving up power, even over corporation, is something they will resist.

 

[Veritas]

It must have been hugely burdensome to US consumers being forced to buy all those low cost products sources from China. The poor dears..

Especially when we could be buying "low cost products" from other countries that are not our enemies, who take advantage of us and steal our IP. China needs the US more than the US needs China.

 

[Kentonio]

Especially when we could be buying "low cost products" from other countries that are not our enemies, who take advantage of us and steal our IP. China needs the US more than the US needs China.

This is yet to be seen. American farmers may well disagree.

 

[Veritas]

QUESTION
Are we wrong in trying to become less dependent on trade with China?

ANSWER: No. They don't deal fairly with the US and haven't for a long time. This can has been kicked down the road long enough. It must be dealt with. If not now, when?

 

[DaisyDay]

Yeah, it was a long time ago....ancient history....all of 1.5 years ago......

Less than 3 months into Donald's presidency - how many of his policies had been put into effect by then? He hadn't even filled out his cabinet at that point.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Less than 3 months into Donald's presidency - how many of his policies had been put into effect by then? He hadn't even filled out his cabinet at that point.

very true but the market/economy tries to anticipate political moves. Getting a business friendly president will move the economy in a positive direction especially after 8 years of a president who was heavily into regulating virtually everything....or so it seemed.

 

[mark46]

Cool....maybe that means some of the manufacturing we lost to China may come back here.

not likely

Our labor costs are way to high to compete with Asian (or even Central American) production

 

[Speedwell]

not likely

Our labor costs are way to high to compete with Asian (or even Central American) production

Except when we automate. It's the jobs that won't come back, not the manufacturing.

 

[mark46]

I suppose that we could reduce our labor costs closer to Asian levels to compete. ???

We have a very strong economy. But, yes, we have lost manufacturing jobs, and will continue to do so.

Consider autos. We've lost well over half the manufacturing jobs of years ago. So? Perhaps, the costs are much less elsewhere (like shoes or televisions). But , in the case of autos, US production is at record levels. Overly high US wages leads to 3 results: the product is no longer produced (being replaced by similar products), the product is produced where costs are less (like moving production the US South) and efficiency increases through automation and process improvement (leading to many fewer jobs).

What is NOT acceptable, and the road to economic decline, is to keep unproductive jobs in the US.

Not sure why the 1940s are supposed to impress us. There were a lot fewer people then. We're still a third lower than the high mark. (And there were a lot fewer people in 1979, too)

 

[mark46]

I missed the point

Many, many have been complaining of the US losing manufacturing JOBS. Few pay attention to the manufacturing portion of the economy.

Except when we automate. It's the jobs that won't come back, not the manufacturing.

 

[miamited]

It is a Chinese policy (maybe a law) so the only real way to handle it is through trade negotiations (harder to go back on a signed, public agreement). Remember, China is still communist and anything that smacks of the Communist Party giving up power, even over corporation, is something they will resist.

Just for laughs: How communist is China, anyway?

While the Chinese government is still considered a communist government, the country is not run as a communist government generally runs a country. There is very little of the old Soviet Russia or N. Korea mirrored in the Chinese government. While it still maintains that it operates with the 'iron fist' generally associated with Communist regimes, it's really fairly laid back in allowing free trade and production ownership by individuals. Even the riots going on in Hong Kong today, are not being handled as a Communist nation 50 years ago would have handled such a development.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[mark46]

China has a horrible civil rights record with regard to several nationalities, prisoners and protestors. Freedom of religion is all but non-existent, along with freedom of the press. Politically, China is very communist indeed. The economy is still a controlled economy, although they have allowed lots and lots of competition. Companies are controlled by the government. This economic model (and their foreign economic policy) is inconsistent with international norms.

I agree with you with regard to Hong Kong. US authorities might be more problematical than the Chinese

Just for laughs: How communist is China, anyway?

While the Chinese government is still considered a communist government, the country is not run as a communist government generally runs a country. There is very little of the old Soviet Russia or N. Korea mirrored in the Chinese government. While it still maintains that it operates with the 'iron fist' generally associated with Communist regimes, it's really fairly laid back in allowing free trade and production ownership by individuals. Even the riots going on in Hong Kong today, are not being handled as a Communist nation 50 years ago would have handled such a development.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

Believe it or not, the US-China tariff war is about more than US getting a fair deal for its consumer goods. It's about countering the Belt and Road initiative, which grossly favours China.

Hi friend of,

It's their initiative...why wouldn't it favor China? Duh??? The belt and road initiative is an agreement between China and many of its trading partners in the Asia Pacific region and all around the globe where it has a lot of trade.

The Belt and Road Initiative is a global development strategy adopted by the Chinese government involving infrastructure development and investments in 152 countries and international organizations in Asia, Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and the Americas.

It is China willing to invest in 152 countries with which it trades. From what I'm reading China has already started some development or made agreements with some 60 nations. China is a big nation with a lot of people. They have as much right to go out and develop trade agreements with other nations as the U.S. does. I keep asking these folks that think we have the right to tell other nations whether they can develop nuclear armaments and such trade deals as this belt and road initiative...Who died and made us king of the world? What? Do we want Satan's job? Why wouldn't the people and government of China want to develop trade partnerships just as we do?

Just yesterday, or a couple of days ago, President Trump made a great speech about how we're going to develop a nuclear arsenal like has never been seen before. That if other nations will stop first, then we'll stop. But, we won't go first. Until then, he says that we're going to work towards developing the greatest nuclear weapons system the world has ever seen.

Now really, is there really any of us that is stupid enough to think that our threatening to build the biggest nuclear weapons in the world is going to make all the other nations feel warm and cozy about their little small arms that 'WE ALLOW' them to have? Friend, other nations have just as much sovereign right to develop and build and stockpile the same weapons that we do. That is, unless we think of ourselves to be the ruler of the world!

President Donald Trump thinks of the U.S. just as he thinks of everything else that he's a part of. It has to be the center of the universe for the world. So he's building up the U.S. to fit that understanding that he has. Now some people, are in agreement with that. Some people think that we do somehow have the right to tell the rest of the world how it should live. I don't happen to be one of them. For me, the world, the entirety of the people living on the earth, are people made in the same image of God that I am. Their nations have the same rights and priveleges and freedoms that our nation has. The people living within the imaginary boundaries of the nations have the same autonomous freedom to govern themselves as they see fit.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

China has a horrible civil rights record with regard to several nationalities, prisoners and protestors. Freedom of religion is all but non-existent, along with freedom of the press. Politically, China is very communist indeed. The economy is still a controlled economy, although they have allowed lots and lots of competition. Companies are controlled by the government. This economic model (and their foreign economic policy) is inconsistent with international norms.

I agree with you with regard to Hong Kong. US authorities might be more problematical than the Chinese

Hi mark,

So how do we represent all the blacks that, by law, had to ride in the back of the bus and drink from separate fountains and couldn't go to 'white' schools? How come people don't see that the U.S. had pretty much the same civil rights record as China? We used to hang black people from trees like fruit for crying out loud. And it was ok!!!! You could kill a black person in cold blooded murder and it was alright.!!!! China has a poor civil rights record? I don't think that it's much worse than ours was at one time. Now, admittedly it's not the same today, but that surely doesn't make us some saint vs. the devil in this matter.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[Veritas]

China has a horrible civil rights record with regard to several nationalities, prisoners and protestors. Freedom of religion is all but non-existent, along with freedom of the press. Politically, China is very communist indeed. The economy is still a controlled economy, although they have allowed lots and lots of competition. Companies are controlled by the government. This economic model (and their foreign economic policy) is inconsistent with international norms.

I agree with you with regard to Hong Kong. US authorities might be more problematical than the Chinese

I would also point out their draconion one-child policy that has led to an absurd gender imbalance.

 

[mama2one]

follow

 

[friend of]

It's their initiative...why wouldn't it favor China? Duh??? The belt and road initiative is an agreement between China and many of its trading partners in the Asia Pacific region and all around the globe where it has a lot of trade.

The Belt and Road Initiative is a global development strategy adopted by the Chinese government involving infrastructure development and investments in 152 countries and international organizations in Asia, Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and the Americas.

It is China willing to invest in 152 countries with which it trades. From what I'm reading China has already started some development or made agreements with some 60 nations. China is a big nation with a lot of people. They have as much right to go out and develop trade agreements with other nations as the U.S. does. I keep asking these folks that think we have the right to tell other nations whether they can develop nuclear armaments and such trade deals as this belt and road initiative...Who died and made us king of the world? What? Do we want Satan's job? Why wouldn't the people and government of China want to develop trade partnerships just as we do?

We don't want that.

 

[friend of]

Who died and made us king of the world?

Move to China then.