A statement

[Lilly of the Valley]

I'll just use this somewhere else!

 

[fillerbunny]

Just because somebody doesn't believe in the concept of "sin" doesn't mean that said individual has no concept of right and wrong.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Did I say that? No. There are some big things that people say are 'fine', but God says otherwise...

 

[Catherineanne]

This applies to everyone, christian or not, because going again that sin is real, your doubt of it being real doesn't negate the fact that it's real, so what I've previously stated is still applicable.

I think what you are saying is that every sin has an effect, both on the person who commits it, and on those who are in proximity to it?

I am happy to go along with that, and with the example you gave. One small sin can lead to bigger and bigger ones, until the person's moral sense is blunted to the extent that they no longer see that what they are doing is wrong.

In terms of Christian morality, however, I think it is important to learn that mankind is not divided into 'sinners' and 'non sinners'. And that we are called, not to judge the beggar stealing bread, nor the child learning from that to shoplife, but to convict ourselves of the sins of pride, avarice, gluttony; whatever.

Our Lord clearly demonstrates to us that sin is not about what 'he' or 'she' does. Sin is about what I do, and the effect that has on my relationship with God. He gives us the example of a life lived with God, and without sin, laid down for brothers and sisters, and calls us to do likewise.

 

[Catherineanne]

Did I say that? No. There are some big things that people say are 'fine', but God says otherwise...

If these are big things that other people are doing, they are not your concern, imo.

If they are big things that you are doing, that you think are wrong, but everyone else says are ok, then maybe you need to speak to a minister, and get some guidance on how to decide this one.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

I think what you are saying is that every sin has an effect, both on the person who commits it, and on those who are in proximity to it?

I am happy to go along with that, and with the example you gave. One small sin can lead to bigger and bigger ones, until the person's moral sense is blunted to the extent that they no longer see that what they are doing is wrong.

In terms of Christian morality, however, I think it is important to learn that mankind is not divided into 'sinners' and 'non sinners'. And that we are called, not to judge the beggar stealing bread, nor the child learning from that to shoplife, but to convict ourselves of the sins of pride, avarice, gluttony; whatever.

Our Lord clearly demonstrates to us that sin is not about what 'he' or 'she' does. Sin is about what I do, and the effect that has on my relationship with God. He gives us the example of a life lived with God, and without sin, laid down for brothers and sisters, and calls us to do likewise.

True, but the world is divided into those that serve God and those that don't. All sin despite which they are in however.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

If these are big things that other people are doing, they are not your concern, imo.

If they are big things that you are doing, that you think are wrong, but everyone else says are ok, then maybe you need to speak to a minister, and get some guidance on how to decide this one.

Um, yes they are. If someone says what God clearly says is wrong, is right, then I'm not going to let them just go on in that w/o telling them what God has said. That's the responsibility of all that serve God. If you just let people stay decieved, what are you doing to help them...nothing.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

You have some decent points. Unfortunately those points are soaked with your silly arrogance.

And hey, guess what, there are some things in the Bible that are just cruel, barbaric, rules that no decent person would ever follow.

Arrogance? What? There isn't any arrogance, I'm just stating the facts. If you have something decent to say, then you can, but if you'll resort to name calling and assumptions, then I ask you to simply not post in this thread.

 

[Mjonller]

That is arrogance if I've ever seen it.

"I know I'm right, and even if you disagree, for whatever reason, you're still wrong and that's that!"

I've debated with you before, it's a problem I commonly have with you. You just come off as some close-minded, fundy nut.

If someone gave me that line in real life, I'ld tear em a new one, verbally, and if they got uppity with me, physically. That kind of arrogance is just infuriating.

Im going to agree with Jack here that is arrogance.

 

[Exhausted]

Calling it arrogance is, unfortunately, an understatement.

 

[Spherical Time]

Haven't we been saying that for months/years?

 

[Exhausted]

I never get tired of saying it.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

A poor beggar decides to still a loaf of bread from a shop. Unbeknownst to him, a child sees this. The child is quite young, but their parents never told them that stealing is wrong. They mimick the action of the beggar. Eventually, it becomes habit and they grow older. They have a friend who was taught it was wrong to steal, but despite it, they join their friend in their daily escapades in stores and malls. Eventually, this group of two turns into a sizable group of over ten. They progress to worse crimes from what they've seen and heard. At some point, their actions no longer feel wrong, but lawful. They come up w/ reasons why it's right and continue in their actions.

Alternative .. beggar doesn't steal bread
Beggar dies.

Thats a better outcome.

This starts to sound like the old adage of the butterfly beating its wings and causing a storm. If god exists he/she/it/them will be the only one/group that will be able to discern all the concequences of an action (or non action) and as such would paralize us mere mortals.


On the flipside what if the beggar does a good action and is misinterpreted by the same 'child ' who then goes on to do 'evil' should the beggar have avoided such an action?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

sin is real, your doubt of it being real doesn't negate the fact that it's real

And your belief in it and biblical teachings do not validate it's reality.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

Sure, some actions don't 'directly' affect or harm others, but how can you be certain no harm is being done?

Let me ask you the opposite. If some action does not cause direct harm that can be seen, then how can you be sure any harm is being done?

Edit. Speeling.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

MOD HAT ON!

Thread closed for cleanup.

MOD HAT OFF!