A solid example from Scripture please.

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Swag365 said:
Those are interesting questions. I think the saints in heaven know that their relatives still on the Earth today commit sin, since we know generally that most people sin. But I don't know the extent to which they would see specific sins (if any). In either case, I doubt that they would be sorry and in tears. Those in heaven get to see God face to face. I think that's reason enough for infinite joy, regardless of what is going on in the world.

Thanks for the responce in a Christian manner.

I do have to disagree though. ALL people sin not MOST!

If we could see any sin or anything wouldnt that be "specific"????

How could that possiblt determined by what we know today?

IMO....that is why we will not know what is going on with what we leave behind.

Do you really....really want to know??

I can tell you that I do not. When I leave --I am leaving all this behind and reaching foreard to Christ and not my failures and memories.

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
How did Abraham know about Moses and the Prophets or that their witness upon the earth is effectual unto salvation ?

The same way that He knew God would supply a sacrifice for Issac. He believed the Word of God.

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Also, the Bible never says that there is no sorrow in heaven. Christ wiping away tears is an Eschaton reality. Notice that the saints under God's altar asked: how long until you avenge our deaths? That's not exactly a statement of bliss but of anticipating and desiring judgement.

Swag365 said:
Those are interesting questions. I think the saints in heaven know that their relatives still on the Earth today commit sin, since we know generally that most people sin. But I don't know the extent to which they would see specific sins (if any). In either case, I doubt that they would be sorry and in tears. Those in heaven get to see God face to face. I think that's reason enough for infinite joy, regardless of what is going on in the world.

Swag365 · Nov 12, 2021

Major1 said:
Thanks for the responce in a Christian manner.

I do have to disagree though. ALL people sin not MOST!

If we could see any sin or anything wouldnt that be "specific"????

How could that possiblt determined by what we know today?

IMO....that is why we will not know what is going on with what we leave behind.

Do you really....really want to know??

I can tell you that I do not. When I leave --I am leaving all this behind and reaching foreard to Christ and not my failures and memories.

Well, I pray for my loved ones here on Earth. I'd like to to the same while I am in heaven. It is a good thing to pray for one's loved ones, no?

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
But no Christian does these things. Our loved ones are alive in Christ, awaiting the Eschaton. Christ descended into Sheol and brought the spirits of just men up to the heavenly Zion with him. Their spirits are now perfected and Satan who accused them before God has been cast down.

O but yes they do and yes they have.

If the people then were not doing these things, then why did God put these words in the Bible.

Today...not sometime down the road, but today when a christian dies, his spirit goes to be with the Lord. His body and spirit will be resurrected at the Rapture.

1 Thess. 4:14.......
For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Swag365 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
Also, the Bible never says that there is no sorrow in heaven. Christ wiping away tears is an Eschaton reality. Notice that the saints under God's altar asked: how long until you avenge our deaths? That's not exactly a statement of bliss but of anticipating and desiring judgement.

That's interesting. I have difficulty seeing how that could be the case, but I'll check it out when I have time.

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Swag365 said:
Well, I pray for my loved ones here on Earth. I'd like to to the same while I am in heaven. It is a good thing to pray for one's loved ones, no?

Yes sir. I do agree.

I just do not like to argue over things I do not know and I do not think we will know about this one till we get there.

It is nice to think that we might have some kind of control from heaven, but really.....I don't think that is the case.

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Major1 said:
The same way that He knew God would supply a sacrifice for Issac. He believed the Word of God.

Are you saying that God revealed to Abraham, while he was still on earth, everything necessary about Moses and the Prophets including Moses' name, and the goings on in the life of the rich man and Lazarus?

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
Also, the Bible never says that there is no sorrow in heaven. Christ wiping away tears is an Eschaton reality. Notice that the saints under God's altar asked: how long until you avenge our deaths? That's not exactly a statement of bliss but of anticipating and desiring judgement.

The Bible says in Rev. 21:4.......
“He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning or crying or pain”.

There are two valid interpretations of this verse. The first and most obvious one is that we will be free from all sorrow when we get to heaven after our race here on earth. The second is that we can have a glimpse of this experience right here on earth before we get to heaven. This is possible because the Holy Spirit living in all believers brings the realities of heaven right into us. Consequently, we can live in heaven right here on earth.

Christian doctrine 101 says that "PRACTICALLY" you are here on the earth living your life.

"POSITIONALLY", as a Christian you are IN Christ and Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father.

So then.....as a Christian we are spiritually where Jesus the Christ is!

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Swag365 said:
That's interesting. I have difficulty seeing how that could be the case, but I'll check it out when I have time.

If you're Catholic or Orthodox, it might be helpful to note at this time that Mary has appeared on earth weeping over our sins.

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
Are you saying that God revealed to Abraham, while he was still on earth, everything necessary about Moses and the Prophets including Moses' name, and the goings on in the life of the rich man and Lazarus?

No. Read my post again. Is that what I said?????

Remember, Abraham is speaking from the Paradise side of Sheol in Luke 16. God is the speaker and Abraham is His instrument and God I think can do pretty much anything He wants to do.

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
If you're Catholic or Orthodox, it might be helpful to note at this time that Mary has appeared on earth weeping over our sins.

What Scripture do you have that validate that post?

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Major1 said:
The Bible says in Rev. 21:4.......
“He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning or crying or pain”.

There are two valid interpretations of this verse. The first and most obvious one is that we will be free from all sorrow when we get to heaven after our race here on earth. The second is that we can have a glimpse of this experience right here on earth before we get to heaven. This is possible because the Holy Spirit living in all believers brings the realities of heaven right into us. Consequently, we can live in heaven right here on earth.

Christian doctrine 101 says that "PRACTICALLY" you are here on the earth living your life.

"POSITIONALLY", as a Christian you are IN Christ and Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father.

So then.....as a Christian we are spiritually where Jesus the Christ is!

We are and Jesus himself cries: Saul, Saul, Why do you persecute me?
We will all get a glimpse of our eternal bliss in heaven, but the former things have not passed away yet. Those in heaven are awaiting us, they are not complete without us.

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Major1 said:
What Scripture do you have that validate that post?

That Mary cries?

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Major1 said:
No. Read my post again. Is that what I said?????

Remember, Abraham is speaking from the Paradise side of Sheol in Luke 16. God is the speaker and Abraham is His instrument and God I think can do pretty much anything He wants to do.

God is not mentioned. Nowhere does it say, Abraham is just an instrument. It is Abraham speaking. He is not passive here.

Swag365 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
If you're Catholic or Orthodox, it might be helpful to note at this time that Mary has appeared on earth weeping over our sins.

Which apparitions are you referring to? There can be a lot of variation here between what is common belief versus what the Church has formally approved, I think.

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
We are and Jesus himself cries: Saul, Saul, Why do you persecute me?
We will all get a glimpse of our eternal bliss in heaven, but the former things have not passed away yet. Those in heaven are awaiting us, they are not complete without us.

I do not mean to be argumentative with you so please forgive me.

It does seem to me that you are posting a lot of "What I think" stuff and not really Bible truth.

I would suggest that you use the phrase...."IMHO" more.

Colossians 2:10.........
"And you are complete in Him, who is the head of all rule and authority."

2 Corth. 5:17..........
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Well, I mean, you are contending that there is only one angelic prince. Daniel says that Michael is just one. In fact Michael was delayed because he was fighting a fallen prince.

Major1 said:
Listen. Lets not argue about something that is so easy to prove.

Here is a What do you want to know about Christianity? Questions by Topic...
Here is another..How many angels are there? | GotQuestions.org

Or.....do your own.

Major1 · Nov 12, 2021

Thatgirloncfforums said:
God is not mentioned. Nowhere does it say, Abraham is just an instrument. It is Abraham speaking. He is not passive here.

My dear......every man in the Bible, every Prophet of God was a mouth piece for God.

Every word uttered in the Bible came from God!

Colossians 1:16........
"For in him (Christ) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him."

John 1:1-2....
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning."

Jesus is the Word of God and the Christ. Every Word in the Bible was given from Him to man for man to write!!!!

Thatgirloncfforums · Nov 12, 2021

Major1 said:
I do not mean to be argumentative with you so please forgive me.

It does seem to me that you are posting a lot of "What I think" stuff and not really Bible truth.

I would suggest that you use the phrase...."IMHO" more.

Colossians 2:10.........
"And you are complete in Him, who is the head of all rule and authority."

2 Corth. 5:17..........
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I've quoted Scripture several times. I just don't typically look up chapter and verse. I quote from memory.
As to the new coming in Christ, that is true. But I don't see what that has to do with a new heavens and earth. We are still living on the old earth and the saints are still residing in the old heaven. We know this because there is still a Temple there, unless Christ destroyed it when he cleansed it. I suppose that's possible.

A solid example from Scripture please.

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