• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Futurist Only A Sequence of End-Time Events

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,463
163
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟328,551.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Psalm 132
11 The LORD swore an oath to David, a promise He will not revoke: “One of your descendants I will place on your throne. 12 If your sons keep My covenant and the testimony I will teach them, then their sons will also sit on your throne forever and ever.” 13 For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His home: 14 “This is My resting place forever and ever; here I will dwell, for I have desired this home. 15 I will bless her with abundant provisions; I will satisfy her poor with bread. 16 I will clothe her priests with salvation, and her saints will sing out in joy. 17 There I will make a horn grow for David; I have prepared a lamp for My anointed one.​

Isaiah 11
1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit. 2 And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.​

Ezekiel 29
17 In the twenty-seventh year, on the first day of the first month, the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre. Every head was made bald and every shoulder made raw. But he and his army received no wages from Tyre for the labor they expended on it.​

19 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, who will carry off its wealth, seize its spoil, and remove its plunder. This will be the wages for his army. 20 I have given him the land of Egypt as the reward for his labor, because it was done for Me, declares the Lord GOD.​

21 In that day I will cause a horn to sprout for the house of Israel, and I will open your mouth to speak among them. Then they will know that I am the LORD.”

The idea in the passages above is that of a descendant of David becoming king, an ‘anointed one’ (in English, another term is ‘messiah’). The symbology used here is of a ‘Branch’ shooting forth and of a ‘horn sprouting’ (as from an animal). So, the ‘Branch’ is synonymous with a ‘horn that is sprouting’, and both are synonymous with being an anointed one (a ‘messiah’). This ‘horn sprouting’ is the basis for the idea of the ‘little horn’ that is present in Daniel 7 and 8.

In Ezekiel 29 above, the king of Babylon defeats the king of Tyre (the king of Tyre calls himself God) and then the king of Babylon is allowed to take over Egypt as a reward. When Tyre and Egypt have been taken over, then a ‘horn sprouts’ and speaks among Israel.

This ‘horn sprouting’ is a reference to Jesus Christ’s establishment of the kingdom of heaven at the 7th Trumpet in Revelation 14:2-3 (after symbolic ‘Egypt’ [literal Jerusalem] is taken over in Revelation 11:8 at the end of the 2nd woe, end of the 6th Trumpet).

Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.​

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.​

Its double meaning, in a negative sense, is a reference to the Daniel 7 Little Horn (in Hebrew, ‘misseirah qeren’) and the Daniel 8 Little Horn (in Hebrew, ‘zeerah qeren’) and the ‘abominable Branch’ in Isaiah 14:3-4, 19 (an ‘abominable messiah’ that is also the king of Babylon who will mimic being resurrected like Jesus Christ).

3 When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: “How the oppressor has ceased, the insolent fury ceased! […]​

19 But you are cast out of your grave like an abominable branch, like the garment of those who are slain, thrust through with a sword, who go down to the stones of the pit, like a corpse trodden underfoot.​

The Daniel 7 Little Horn ‘sprouts’ and ‘comes up among’ ten other horns (Daniel 7:8) and the Daniel 8 Little Horn ‘sprouts’ and ‘emerged and became exceedingly great’ out of one of four horns (Daniel 8:9). Both little horns also ‘open their mouths’ to speak among Israel.

In Daniel 7:8 the little horn speaks boastfully:

While I was contemplating the horns, suddenly another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like those of a man and a mouth that spoke words of arrogance.​

In Daniel 8, the little horn speaks boastfully about itself also:

10 It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them. 11 It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary.​

In other words, according to Ezekiel 29, the defeat of the king of Tyre (who calls himself God) is a pre-requisite for the Daniel 7 Little Horn (the ‘antichrist’) to be able to show up.

Now we can begin to look at a simplified version of the sequence of end-time events. Note that this is a template of events using the Bible’s own symbology to define itself. Various terms and figures have literal and symbolic fulfillments (the interpretations of which I will present my opinions strictly as opinions).

After this simple overview, we will look at a more detailed version and the scripture behind these events.

1. Assyria attacks Israel to destroy it. The king of Tyre calls himself God. Tyre has the purpose of enriching itself at the expense of Judah and Israel. (the Psalm 83 war) (start of the Trumpets and at the 1st Woe)​

2. The Medes and Persians attack Israel. Gog attacks Israel. (the Gog war)

3. Shortly thereafter, the Medes attack Babylon. (the 2nd Trumpet’s ‘burning mountain’)

4. Javan (‘Greece’) (the Goat’s great horn) attacks and defeats the Medes and Persians.

5. With Babylon out of the picture, the king of Tyre (a very wealthy and self-proclaimed god-like being) seduces Judah into becoming the property of a new global government which will have some sort of reference point with ‘Greece’ (this is Javan, the #6 king of Revelation 17:10) (Joel 3:6). (*Note that there is a distinction between Ancient Javan & present Tyre vs. New future Javan & new future Tyre which we can discuss further.)

6. Babylon, after being beaten down by the Medes, comes back as the Daniel 7 4th beast that is treading down the whole world. Babylon destroys Tyre and many other nations. (This is what happening at the 6th Trumpet.)​

7. After being ‘trampled down by the Daniel 7 4th beast’, Javan, the ‘Goat’s great horn,’ splits into 4 parts - the Daniel 7 Leopard with 4 heads.​

8. Babylon takes over Egypt as ‘payment’ for destroying Tyre for God (‘breaking Egypt’s arm’ in Ezekiel 30:21-22).​

9. A ‘horn now sprouts’ after Tyre is destroyed and becomes the new king of Babylon (Isaiah 14:4) (the 10 tribes of Psalm 83 associated with Tyre is one possible application to the 10 horns on Daniel 7’s 4th beast). This particular item has an important double meaning.​

a. In its deceptive, negative sense, this is the 11th horn of the Daniel 7 4th beast, the ‘little horn’ that comes after the 10 horns and speaks to blaspheme God. This ‘horn’ is the king of Babylon, ‘Lucifer,’ from Isaiah 14, who is called the ‘abominable Branch’. ‘Lucifer’ confirms the holy covenant (Daniel 9:27). This person is what people traditionally think of as the ‘antichrist’ and is the #7 king of Revelation 17:10.

b. In its positive sense, this is the ‘Branch’, new Yeshua (‘Joshua’/ ‘Jesus’) who is one of the 2 witnesses (the 2 anointed ones, Joshua and Zerubabbel, of Zechariah 2-4)​

c. Micah 5:2-6 indicates a ‘little one’ that will become great and rule Israel after Assyria attacks. Whether this individual is one of the 2 witnesses or is a little horn (an anti-messiah) is unclear.​

10. The king of Babylon breaks the holy covenant after 1260 days (Daniel 9:27). Lucifer, aka Mystery Babylon (Sheshach), attacks Israel and ‘Egypt’ (Revelation 11:8) (breaking its ‘second arm’ in Ezekiel 30:21-22).​

11. After ‘Egypt’ is taken over for the 2nd time (‘breaking Egypt’s second arm’), another ‘horn sprouts’, which is the False Prophet, the beast from the earth. This is the future Daniel 8 Little Horn, the #8 king from Revelation 17:11, arising from one of the 4 horns of new Javan.
For the most part this sequence is derived from Daniel 7's four beasts.

The historical understanding of Daniel 2's four kingdoms that arrive before Jesus' arrival are Babylon, Medes with the Persians, 'Greece' (Javan), and the 4th kingdom as Rome.
In Daniel 7, these are all present at the same time and in a slightly different arrangement.

The first attack is by the king of Assyria upon Israel. Assyria is in league with Tyre and others in the Psalm 83 coalition.

Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and given the mind of a man.​

Jeremiah 50:17 “Israel is a hunted sheep driven away by lions. First the king of Assyria devoured him,​

Because the third beast, the 4 headed Leopard, is such a clear analog to the ruler of Javan ('Greece') with its 4 horns in Daniel 8, we can infer that the ruler of Persia is the 2nd beast (which is reinforced by Daniel 10:20 which describes a latter day attack by the ruler of Persia and then the coming of the ruler of Javan ('Greece').

And so, the 2nd beast, the bear, would refer to the Medes and Persia, just the same as in Daniel 2's historical understanding. The Medes destroy Babylon.

Jeremiah 51
11“Sharpen the arrows! Take up the shields! The Lord has stirred up the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because his purpose concerning Babylon is to destroy it, for that is the vengeance of the Lord, the vengeance for his temple.

24“I will repay Babylon and all the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes for all the evil that they have done in Zion, declares the Lord.

25“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain,
declares the Lord,
which destroys the whole earth;
I will stretch out my hand against you,
and roll you down from the crags,
and make you a burnt mountain.

Of course, this 'burnt mountain' imagery is referenced in the 2nd Trumpet's 'burning mountain'. Also, Persia is part of the Gog coalition in Ezekiel 38:5.

Moreover, if we understand Daniel 9:26's ' the people of the ruler to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary' as meaning the 'kinsman' of the ruler to come, look at who is kinsman to Magog in Genesis 10
2 The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Medes, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.​

The third beast is the 4 headed Leopard, which would be Javan and the 4 horns of Daniel 8 in the latter days. Tyre is selling Judah into spiritual slavery to Javan (via the mark of the beast presumably) (Joel 3:6). Javan is given dominion over the earth (Daniel 7:6 and Daniel 2:39 if you understand it in a futurist sense: Dan 2:39 Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.)

Then the Daniel 7 4th beast comes, which is Babylon.

Daniel 7:7 After this, as I watched in my vision in the night, suddenly a fourth beast appeared, and it was terrifying—dreadful and extremely strong—with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the beasts before it, and it had ten horns.​

Jeremiah 50:17 “Israel is a hunted sheep driven away by lions. First the king of Assyria devoured him, and now at last Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has gnawed his bones.​

This is what is occurring at the 6th Trumpet: the 4th beast of Daniel 7, Babylon, is 'devouring and crushing' the whole world.

After it is done treading on the whole world and defeating Javan (whatever political entity this is) and defeats Tyre and Egypt, then the little horn of Daniel 7 can arise.

This Daniel 7 Little Horn confirms the covenant of Daniel 9:27 and breaks it after the 2 witnesses 1260 days, at the end of the 2nd woe. Then the Daniel 8 Little Horn can arise from the Javan political entity that split into 4 in the 'latter part of their kingdom' (Daniel 8:23) which is after the Daniel 7 Little Horn is killed:
Daniel 7
11“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
When the remaining beasts (the lion, bear, and leopard) are given an extension of life, this is when the 'latter part' is where the Daniel 8 Little Horn arises.
 

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Psalm 132
11 The LORD swore an oath to David, a promise He will not revoke: “One of your descendants I will place on your throne. 12 If your sons keep My covenant and the testimony I will teach them, then their sons will also sit on your throne forever and ever.” 13 For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His home: 14 “This is My resting place forever and ever; here I will dwell, for I have desired this home. 15 I will bless her with abundant provisions; I will satisfy her poor with bread. 16 I will clothe her priests with salvation, and her saints will sing out in joy. 17 There I will make a horn grow for David; I have prepared a lamp for My anointed one.​

Isaiah 11
1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit. 2 And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.​

Ezekiel 29
17 In the twenty-seventh year, on the first day of the first month, the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre. Every head was made bald and every shoulder made raw. But he and his army received no wages from Tyre for the labor they expended on it.​

19 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, who will carry off its wealth, seize its spoil, and remove its plunder. This will be the wages for his army. 20 I have given him the land of Egypt as the reward for his labor, because it was done for Me, declares the Lord GOD.​

21 In that day I will cause a horn to sprout for the house of Israel, and I will open your mouth to speak among them. Then they will know that I am the LORD.”

The idea in the passages above is that of a descendant of David becoming king, an ‘anointed one’ (in English, another term is ‘messiah’). The symbology used here is of a ‘Branch’ shooting forth and of a ‘horn sprouting’ (as from an animal). So, the ‘Branch’ is synonymous with a ‘horn that is sprouting’, and both are synonymous with being an anointed one (a ‘messiah’). This ‘horn sprouting’ is the basis for the idea of the ‘little horn’ that is present in Daniel 7 and 8.

In Ezekiel 29 above, the king of Babylon defeats the king of Tyre (the king of Tyre calls himself God) and then the king of Babylon is allowed to take over Egypt as a reward. When Tyre and Egypt have been taken over, then a ‘horn sprouts’ and speaks among Israel.

This ‘horn sprouting’ is a reference to Jesus Christ’s establishment of the kingdom of heaven at the 7th Trumpet in Revelation 14:2-3 (after symbolic ‘Egypt’ [literal Jerusalem] is taken over in Revelation 11:8 at the end of the 2nd woe, end of the 6th Trumpet).

Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.​

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.​

Its double meaning, in a negative sense, is a reference to the Daniel 7 Little Horn (in Hebrew, ‘misseirah qeren’) and the Daniel 8 Little Horn (in Hebrew, ‘zeerah qeren’) and the ‘abominable Branch’ in Isaiah 14:3-4, 19 (an ‘abominable messiah’ that is also the king of Babylon who will mimic being resurrected like Jesus Christ).

3 When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: “How the oppressor has ceased, the insolent fury ceased! […]​

19 But you are cast out of your grave like an abominable branch, like the garment of those who are slain, thrust through with a sword, who go down to the stones of the pit, like a corpse trodden underfoot.​

The Daniel 7 Little Horn ‘sprouts’ and ‘comes up among’ ten other horns (Daniel 7:8) and the Daniel 8 Little Horn ‘sprouts’ and ‘emerged and became exceedingly great’ out of one of four horns (Daniel 8:9). Both little horns also ‘open their mouths’ to speak among Israel.

In Daniel 7:8 the little horn speaks boastfully:

While I was contemplating the horns, suddenly another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like those of a man and a mouth that spoke words of arrogance.​

In Daniel 8, the little horn speaks boastfully about itself also:

10 It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them. 11 It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary.​

In other words, according to Ezekiel 29, the defeat of the king of Tyre (who calls himself God) is a pre-requisite for the Daniel 7 Little Horn (the ‘antichrist’) to be able to show up.

Now we can begin to look at a simplified version of the sequence of end-time events. Note that this is a template of events using the Bible’s own symbology to define itself. Various terms and figures have literal and symbolic fulfillments (the interpretations of which I will present my opinions strictly as opinions).

After this simple overview, we will look at a more detailed version and the scripture behind these events.

1. Assyria attacks Israel to destroy it. The king of Tyre calls himself God. Tyre has the purpose of enriching itself at the expense of Judah and Israel. (the Psalm 83 war) (start of the Trumpets and at the 1st Woe)​

2. The Medes and Persians attack Israel. Gog attacks Israel. (the Gog war)

3. Shortly thereafter, the Medes attack Babylon. (the 2nd Trumpet’s ‘burning mountain’)

4. Javan (‘Greece’) (the Goat’s great horn) attacks and defeats the Medes and Persians.

5. With Babylon out of the picture, the king of Tyre (a very wealthy and self-proclaimed god-like being) seduces Judah into becoming the property of a new global government which will have some sort of reference point with ‘Greece’ (this is Javan, the #6 king of Revelation 17:10) (Joel 3:6). (*Note that there is a distinction between Ancient Javan & present Tyre vs. New future Javan & new future Tyre which we can discuss further.)

6. Babylon, after being beaten down by the Medes, comes back as the Daniel 7 4th beast that is treading down the whole world. Babylon destroys Tyre and many other nations. (This is what happening at the 6th Trumpet.)​

7. After being ‘trampled down by the Daniel 7 4th beast’, Javan, the ‘Goat’s great horn,’ splits into 4 parts - the Daniel 7 Leopard with 4 heads.​

8. Babylon takes over Egypt as ‘payment’ for destroying Tyre for God (‘breaking Egypt’s arm’ in Ezekiel 30:21-22).​

9. A ‘horn now sprouts’ after Tyre is destroyed and becomes the new king of Babylon (Isaiah 14:4) (the 10 tribes of Psalm 83 associated with Tyre is one possible application to the 10 horns on Daniel 7’s 4th beast). This particular item has an important double meaning.​

a. In its deceptive, negative sense, this is the 11th horn of the Daniel 7 4th beast, the ‘little horn’ that comes after the 10 horns and speaks to blaspheme God. This ‘horn’ is the king of Babylon, ‘Lucifer,’ from Isaiah 14, who is called the ‘abominable Branch’. ‘Lucifer’ confirms the holy covenant (Daniel 9:27). This person is what people traditionally think of as the ‘antichrist’ and is the #7 king of Revelation 17:10.

b. In its positive sense, this is the ‘Branch’, new Yeshua (‘Joshua’/ ‘Jesus’) who is one of the 2 witnesses (the 2 anointed ones, Joshua and Zerubabbel, of Zechariah 2-4)​

c. Micah 5:2-6 indicates a ‘little one’ that will become great and rule Israel after Assyria attacks. Whether this individual is one of the 2 witnesses or is a little horn (an anti-messiah) is unclear.​

10. The king of Babylon breaks the holy covenant after 1260 days (Daniel 9:27). Lucifer, aka Mystery Babylon (Sheshach), attacks Israel and ‘Egypt’ (Revelation 11:8) (breaking its ‘second arm’ in Ezekiel 30:21-22).​

11. After ‘Egypt’ is taken over for the 2nd time (‘breaking Egypt’s second arm’), another ‘horn sprouts’, which is the False Prophet, the beast from the earth. This is the future Daniel 8 Little Horn, the #8 king from Revelation 17:11, arising from one of the 4 horns of new Javan.
For the most part this sequence is derived from Daniel 7's four beasts.

The historical understanding of Daniel 2's four kingdoms that arrive before Jesus' arrival are Babylon, Medes with the Persians, 'Greece' (Javan), and the 4th kingdom as Rome.
In Daniel 7, these are all present at the same time and in a slightly different arrangement.

The first attack is by the king of Assyria upon Israel. Assyria is in league with Tyre and others in the Psalm 83 coalition.

Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and given the mind of a man.​

Jeremiah 50:17 “Israel is a hunted sheep driven away by lions. First the king of Assyria devoured him,​

Because the third beast, the 4 headed Leopard, is such a clear analog to the ruler of Javan ('Greece') with its 4 horns in Daniel 8, we can infer that the ruler of Persia is the 2nd beast (which is reinforced by Daniel 10:20 which describes a latter day attack by the ruler of Persia and then the coming of the ruler of Javan ('Greece').

And so, the 2nd beast, the bear, would refer to the Medes and Persia, just the same as in Daniel 2's historical understanding. The Medes destroy Babylon.

Jeremiah 51
11“Sharpen the arrows! Take up the shields! The Lord has stirred up the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because his purpose concerning Babylon is to destroy it, for that is the vengeance of the Lord, the vengeance for his temple.

24“I will repay Babylon and all the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes for all the evil that they have done in Zion, declares the Lord.

25“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain,
declares the Lord,
which destroys the whole earth;
I will stretch out my hand against you,
and roll you down from the crags,
and make you a burnt mountain.

Of course, this 'burnt mountain' imagery is referenced in the 2nd Trumpet's 'burning mountain'. Also, Persia is part of the Gog coalition in Ezekiel 38:5.

Moreover, if we understand Daniel 9:26's ' the people of the ruler to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary' as meaning the 'kinsman' of the ruler to come, look at who is kinsman to Magog in Genesis 10
2 The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Medes, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.​

The third beast is the 4 headed Leopard, which would be Javan and the 4 horns of Daniel 8 in the latter days. Tyre is selling Judah into spiritual slavery to Javan (via the mark of the beast presumably) (Joel 3:6). Javan is given dominion over the earth (Daniel 7:6 and Daniel 2:39 if you understand it in a futurist sense: Dan 2:39 Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.)

Then the Daniel 7 4th beast comes, which is Babylon.

Daniel 7:7 After this, as I watched in my vision in the night, suddenly a fourth beast appeared, and it was terrifying—dreadful and extremely strong—with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed; then it trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the beasts before it, and it had ten horns.​

Jeremiah 50:17 “Israel is a hunted sheep driven away by lions. First the king of Assyria devoured him, and now at last Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has gnawed his bones.​

This is what is occurring at the 6th Trumpet: the 4th beast of Daniel 7, Babylon, is 'devouring and crushing' the whole world.

After it is done treading on the whole world and defeating Javan (whatever political entity this is) and defeats Tyre and Egypt, then the little horn of Daniel 7 can arise.

This Daniel 7 Little Horn confirms the covenant of Daniel 9:27 and breaks it after the 2 witnesses 1260 days, at the end of the 2nd woe. Then the Daniel 8 Little Horn can arise from the Javan political entity that split into 4 in the 'latter part of their kingdom' (Daniel 8:23) which is after the Daniel 7 Little Horn is killed:
Daniel 7
11“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
When the remaining beasts (the lion, bear, and leopard) are given an extension of life, this is when the 'latter part' is where the Daniel 8 Little Horn arises.
tranquil, your post is too complex, convoluted, and too much information at one time for anyone to understand it.

You need to make another post. This time with one liners. Not one paragraphs.

See my post #4.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
tranquil, one liners.

Pre-70th week:
1. little horn becomes leader of a ten leader european coalition.
2. Gog/Magog takes place and Gog's army destroyed
3. the little horn moves his EU army into the middle east as peace keepers.
4. little horn is anointed the king of Israel messiah, making him the Antichrist.

70th week:
1. confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant, day 1, 70th week.
2. a false messianic age
3. the transgression of desolation act
4. antichrist killed and brought back to life to become the beast
5. the abomination of desolation set up
6. the great tribulation and tribulation of those days
7. the sign of the Son of man in heaven
8. armies gather at Armageddon 45 days to make war on Jesus
9. Jesus returns, and destroys those armies.


upload_2022-9-9_15-17-45.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,342
2,622
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟359,019.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I did read your OP, Tranquil.
You confuse yourself with too much information.
For now; the only prophesied event we need to be aware of and prepared for is the Sixth Seal.

You mentioned Psalms 83. That Psalm describes what will trigger the Lord to send His fiery wrath and what the result will be. That terrible Day of disaster, is prophesied in great detail in over 100 Bible passages.

ONLY AFTER that sudden and shocking worldwide disaster, will Christians finally understand God's Plan for their future:
After the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath:

Isaiah 43:8 Bring forth this people, a people whose eyes are blind, whose ears are deaf.

Isaiah 35:4-5 Be strong, fear not; the Lord comes to save you, with His vengeance and retribution. THEN the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped.

Isaiah 42:18-20 You that are deaf; hear now, you that are blind; look and see! Who is so deaf and blind as My servant, the messenger that I send, the one who has My trust?

Isaiah 29:18 On that Day, the deaf will hear and the blind will see.

Isaiah 29:24 Then the confused will gain understanding and the obstinate will take instruction.

Isaiah 32:3-4 Then those who see and hear will understand clearly, the impetuous mind will know and the stammering tongue will speak fluently and plainly.
the little horn comes to power> then becomes the prince who shall come > then becomes the Antichrist> then becomes the revealed man of sin> then becomes the beast
This is right, except for the 'little horn' of Daniel 8:8-14, which refers to Antiochus 4 E, and is fulfilled prophecy.
But you also fail to show how the 'prince who is to come' gains his power. Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12
I have asked you many times before to explain how a One World Government could be formed under todays conditions. All your 'charts' start with the AC already in power.

The situation is that for 100 + years, there has been attempts to establish an OWG, but the nations refuse to relinquish their sovereignty.
It will take a disaster similar to Noah's Flood, to force the surviving nations to agree to it.

Funny: that is just what Jesus said would happen when He comes to punish Hie enemies.... Matthew 24:37-39
When He sends His fiery wrath, Amos 1, Habakkuk 3:1-17
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I have asked you many times before to explain how a One World Government could be formed under todays conditions. All your 'charts' start with the AC already in power.
You are the guy talking about a One World Government, something created in your mind, probably because over your 40 or 50 eschatology study you've heard others say it over and over. I am not.

At the time when the 7 years begin and end, and in between - there is no One World Government.

The world will be have four segments of power - the west, the east, the south, the north.

The west will be the most dominant and will exert its will over the rest of the world.

The west will be lead by the Antichrist and will be the EU with the United States and Canada as its main allies. The little horn will be in power before Gog/Magog, then in the wake of Gog/Magog, will be the prince who shall come...

Who will then confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years, as the perceived messiah by the Jews, Israel. False messianic age then begins.


upload_2022-9-9_16-10-51.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,342
2,622
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟359,019.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
At the time when the 7 years begin and end, and in between - there is no One World Government.
Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13:1-17 refute you. You are wrong, admit it.

The OWG will be formed soon after the world changer of the Sixth Seal and only destroyed when Jesus Returns. Revelation 16:16-21
As you point out; not all of the world will be a part of the OWG and some will fight against it.
The Christian peoples certainly don't join it.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13:1-17 refute you. You are wrong, admit it.

The OWG will be formed soon after the world changer of the Sixth Seal and only destroyed when Jesus Returns. Revelation 16:16-21
As you point out; not all of the world will be a part of the OWG and some will fight against it.
The Christian peoples certainly don't join it.
Neither of those references say anything about a One World Government. You are imagining it. Take a look at how the world is allied today. It is not going to change much. The west, the east, the north, the south. The west, just as it is commonly called today, is going to be the most dominant. Just as it is today.

Daniel 11:40-45 proves you wrong. No one world government.

upload_2022-9-9_18-36-0.jpeg





upload_2022-9-9_18-37-55.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,342
2,622
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟359,019.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Daniel 11:40-45 proves you wrong. No one world government.
I said; the OWG won't control every part of the world. Rebellions erupt, just as now; against any government.
From Revelation 16:10-14, we see how a vast army comes to support the Anti-Christ.

Tranquil; I am sorry we seem to have hi-jacked your thread.
Please post your thoughts on a single issue that we can discuss rationally.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Tranquil; I am sorry we seem to have hi-jacked your thread.
Please post your thoughts on a single issue that we can discuss rationally.
What tranquil and you need to do is assemble your "a sequence of end times events" (remember the title of the thread ?) into a list of one liners. Here's mine with a chart as well.

Pre-70th week:
1. little horn becomes leader of a ten leader european coalition.
2. Gog/Magog takes place and Gog's army destroyed
3. the little horn moves his EU army into the middle east as peace keepers.
4. little horn is anointed the king of Israel messiah, making him the Antichrist.

70th week:
1. confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant, day 1, 70th week.
2. a false messianic age
3. the transgression of desolation act
4. antichrist killed and brought back to life to become the beast
5. the abomination of desolation set up
6. the great tribulation and tribulation of those days
7. the sign of the Son of man in heaven
8. armies gather at Armageddon 45 days to make war on Jesus
9. Jesus returns, and destroys those armies.



upload_2022-9-10_1-8-6.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,342
2,622
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟359,019.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
What tranquil and you need to do
No Douggg, ALL we really need to know about and be prepared for the forthcoming sudden and shocking Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath to destroy the enemies attacking Israel.
The eschatological event that everyone seems to miss, or avoid. Ezekiel 33:33

Your chronic avoidance of my rebuttals, counts against you.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
No Douggg, ALL we really need to know about and be prepared for the forthcoming sudden and shocking Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath to destroy the enemies attacking Israel.
The eschatological event that everyone seems to miss, or avoid. Ezekiel 33:33

Your chronic avoidance of my rebuttals, counts against you.
You keep wanting to take the thread off topic. The topic of this thread is
A Sequence of End-Time Events
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,463
163
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟328,551.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
tranquil, your post is too complex, convoluted, and too much information at one time for anyone to understand it.

You need to make another post. This time with one liners. Not one paragraphs.

See my post #4.

At its simplest:

the term 'little horn' is referring to a messianic prophecy in Ezekiel 29.

The Daniel 7 little horn (what you call the antichrist) can only come to power after defeating Tyre (Tyre is the one who calls himself a god).

Tyre is the false prophet to Javan ('Greece'). Javan is the third beast of Daniel 7, the 4 headed leopard.

The Daniel 7 4th beast is Babylon. The 11th horn is the antichrist.
-----------------------------------------

The 1st Daniel 7 beast, the lion, is the Assyrian. Assyria is attacking Israel at the start of the Trumpets. Assyria and Tyre are part of the Psalm 83 war.

The 2nd beast, the bear, attacks and defeats Babylon. The bear is the Medes and Persians.

The 3rd beast, the leopard, is probably a UN global government, maybe the EU, maybe the UK. This is Javan ('Greece'). After the Medes and Persians defeat Babylon, Javan destroys the Medes and Persians, presumably avenging Babylon. Tyre is the false prophet to enslave Judah into Javan, this global government.

Babylon was defeated by the 2nd beast, but then comes back to tread the whole world down, attacking everyone it can launch a missile at.

After defeating this leopard (the goat's great horn of Daniel 8), the leopard splits into 4 parts, out of which will come the False Prophet at the 7th Trumpet.

Babylon, after attacking everyone, destroys Tyre. Now the 'little horn' can 'sprout'. This messiah confirms the covenant after Babylon has tread the whole world down.

Revelation 9:13-21 (where a third of mankind is killed at the start of the 6th Trumpet) is this from Daniel 7
7After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.​

The Dan 7 little horn can only come after these events above, after Tyre is destroyed (which is part of when the 4th beast, Babylon, is treading down the whole world).

After 1260 days, at the start of the 7th Trumpet, the Daniel 7 little horn is killed and resurrected. The Daniel 8 Little Horn is now in the 'latter days of their kingdom' who arrives to tell people to worship either Javan or the Daniel 7 Little Horn.
 
Upvote 0

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,463
163
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟328,551.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
the little horn comes to power> then becomes the prince who shall come > then becomes the Antichrist> then becomes the revealed man of sin> then becomes the beast


Tyre sells Judah and Christians into spiritual slavery to Javan ('Greece'). This is the 'one that is' from Revelation 17:10-11).
Joel 3
4Now what do you have against Me, O Tyre, Sidon, and all the regions of Philistia? Are you rendering against Me a recompense? If you retaliate against Me, I will swiftly and speedily return your recompense upon your heads. 5For you took My silver and gold and carried off My finest treasures to your temples. 6You sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, to send them far from their homeland.​

The king of Babylon (the predecessor to the antichrist, the antichrist being the 'one who is to come' from Revelation 17:10-11) destroys Javan (during the beginning of the 6th Trumpet).

The antichrist is the little horn and comes to power, ending the great tribulation (at the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days).

The antichrist breaks the covenant at the end of the 1260 days (at the 7th Trumpet). Becoming the 'beast' as you say.
 
Upvote 0

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,463
163
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟328,551.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13:1-17 refute you. You are wrong, admit it.

The OWG will be formed soon after the world changer of the Sixth Seal and only destroyed when Jesus Returns. Revelation 16:16-21
As you point out; not all of the world will be a part of the OWG and some will fight against it.
The Christian peoples certainly don't join it.

What you call the one world government, I would call 'Javan' ('Greece'), the 3rd beast from Daniel 7.

6 After this I looked, and behold, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back. And the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it.
Tyre is the false prophet to this entity. This starts at the Trumpets when Tyre calls himself God. Tyre is in league with the 1st beast, the Assyrian.

To put a modern spin on what the Biblical template seems to be:

The Assyrian (the lion of Dan 7) appears to be someone like an Osama bin Laden, a terrorist leader of something like ISIS or Al Queda. (After initially being bad, he will become good because he is 'given the mind of a man' in Daniel 7:4).

Tyre is probably the Pope (the false prophet to the UN).

Javan (the leopard of Dan 7) is probably the UN or whatever political entity the 'Great Reset' is trying to usher in.

The Medes and Persians (the bear of Dan 7) would be Russia and Iran.

Babylon (the 2nd 'lion', the 4th beast of Dan 7) would be the US.

so

at the start of the Trumpets,

  • the Pope calls himself God and urges people to become part of the UN global government.

  • Israel is attacked by a severe terrorist attack.

  • Shortly thereafter, Russia and Iran attack the US and knock it out of commission for a while.

  • The new UN global government attacks Russia and Iran, defeating them.

  • The US comes back on line and goes to war with everyone and everything (at the start of the 6th Trumpet), killing a third of mankind.

  • The UN splits into 4 parts.

  • The US goes into emergency mode, into the 10 FEMA districts. They elect the little horn antichrist, who will supposedly set things right, even saying that free and fair elections will be held on the next cycle.

  • The antichrist breaks this promise and tries to stay in power, but is shot in the head and resurrects.

  • Because the UN global government will probably be communistic, the antichrist will give people a libertarian hellscape. No forced mark of the beast presumably, but they will rapaciously kill the poor and destroy the planet. Of course, this will not sit well with many of the survivors and will want something different when the opportunity arises.

  • This is why there is the 'earth' and 'sea', 2 different sides. When the 'sea' is oppressing Israel (the woman), she is helped by the 'earth'. Thus Israel would be seduced into doing what the 'beast from the earth' wants at the 7th Trumpet.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Babylon, after attacking everyone, destroys Tyre. Now the 'little horn' can 'sprout'. This messiah confirms the covenant after Babylon has tread the whole world down.
Ezekiel 29 is historic. Nebuchadnezzar, named in the text of verse 19, will defeat Egypt and the riches thereof will be the wages of his army.

As near as I can tell, verse 21 the horn of Israel to bud forth, is talking about a growing desire of the house of Israel to return to the land of Israel during its 70 years of Babylon captivity.

During which time, Ezekiel, in the midst of the captives taken to Babylon, will prophesy during that time.

Ezekiel 29:21 In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
_________________________________________________________

The fourth kingdom in Daniel 7 is not Babylon, but the Roman Empire. Out of that territory is where the little horn will emerge.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
At its simplest:

the term 'little horn' is referring to a messianic prophecy in Ezekiel 29.

The Daniel 7 little horn (what you call the antichrist) can only come to power after defeating Tyre (Tyre is the one who calls himself a god).

Tyre is the false prophet to Javan ('Greece'). Javan is the third beast of Daniel 7, the 4 headed leopard.

The Daniel 7 4th beast is Babylon. The 11th horn is the antichrist.
tranquil, you have a run-on list of archaic terms.

Redo, and put the sequence of events in a numbered order , using modern day terms that people can understand.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
.....
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,116
3,583
Non-dispensationalist
✟420,791.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Shortly thereafter, Russia and Iran attack the US and knock it out of commission for a while.
If Russia or Iran dared to attack the U.S., any of it states, they would be wiped off the face of the globe.

The U.S. is part of Nato. Which also is about Europe. And was formed to stop the aggression of a post war soviet union.

Putin justified his attack on Ukraine because Ukraine was going to apply for EU membership which would have put Nato right on Russia's doorstep.

Since July, Ukraine is being fast tracked by EU leaders to full EU member state membership. Which means, with full EU membership, anyone attacking Ukraine, might as well being attacking Germany and France.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
15,342
2,622
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟359,019.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
What you call the one world government, I would call 'Javan' ('Greece'), the 3rd beast from Daniel 7.

6 After this I looked, and behold, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back. And the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it.
Fulfilled by Alexander the Great, thousands of years ago.

I do not see anything in your post that is supported by the last days Bible prophesies.
 
Upvote 0