Futurist Only A Sequence of End-Time Events

[tranquil]

Fulfilled by Alexander the Great, thousands of years ago.

I do not see anything in your post that is supported by the last days Bible prophesies.

the vision of the ram and the goat is for the future.

Daniel 8

17 So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”​

26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been spoken is true. Now you must seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.”

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Daniel 10

13The ruler of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia, 14 and came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days. For the vision is for days yet to come.”

20Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the ruler of Persia; and when I go out, behold, the ruler of Greece will come. 21But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince.
​

Alexander the Great died hundreds of years before Jesus' arrival. I wouldn't call Alexander the Great part of the 'latter days'.

You have 2 instances of it saying that the ruler of Persia and 'Greece'/ 'Javan' is in the future/ latter days.

Daniel 2

44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”
​

Is the book of Revelation showing how there will be a kingdom set up by God? Yes or no? If there is a kingdom being set up, then these 4 kingdoms are for the 'latter days'. It's as simple as that.

39Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.​

That is the 'one world government' you are referring to.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 8
17 So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”
26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been spoken is true. Now you must seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.”

tranquil, to know what vision, go back a few verses earlier.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

The ram and the goat are all historic to us.

It is the vision of the little horn's actions that are time of the end.

 

[tranquil]

Ezekiel 29 is historic. Nebuchadnezzar, named in the text of verse 19, will defeat Egypt and the riches thereof will be the wages of his army.

As near as I can tell, verse 21 the horn of Israel to bud forth, is talking about a growing desire of the house of Israel to return to the land of Israel during its 70 years of Babylon captivity.

During which time, Ezekiel, in the midst of the captives taken to Babylon, will prophesy during that time.

Ezekiel 29:21 In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
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The fourth kingdom in Daniel 7 is not Babylon, but the Roman Empire. Out of that territory is where the little horn will emerge.

What kingdom does the antichrist rule? You post these verses constantly, you should know this better.

Isaiah 14

3On the day that the LORD gives you rest from your pain and torment, and from the hard labor into which you were forced, 4you will sing this song of contempt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has ceased, and how his fury has ended! 5The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, the scepter of the rulers.

18All the kings of the nations lie in state, each in his own tomb. 19But you are cast out of your grave like a rejected branch, covered by those slain with the sword, and dumped into a rocky pit like a carcass trampled underfoot. 20You will not join them in burial, since you have destroyed your land and slaughtered your own people. The offspring of the wicked will never again be mentioned.​

Jeremiah 50

17“Israel is a hunted sheep driven away by lions.

[This is the first beast of Daniel 7.]​

First the king of Assyria devoured him,

and now at last Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has gnawed his bones.​

Jeremiah 25

15Thus the Lord, the God of Israel, said to me: “Take from my hand this cup of the wine of wrath, and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. 16They shall drink and stagger and be crazed because of the sword that I am sending among them.”

17So I took the cup from the Lord’s hand, and made all the nations to whom the Lord sent me drink it: 18Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, its kings and officials, to make them a desolation and a waste, a hissing and a curse, as at this day; 19Pharaoh king of Egypt, his servants, his officials, all his people, 20and all the mixed tribes among them; all the kings of the land of Uz and all the kings of the land of the Philistines (Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod); 21Edom, Moab, and the sons of Ammon; 22all the kings of Tyre, all the kings of Sidon, and the kings of the coastland across the sea; 23Dedan, Tema, Buz, and all who cut the corners of their hair; 24all the kings of Arabia and all the kings of the mixed tribes who dwell in the desert; 25all the kings of Zimri, all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of Media; 26all the kings of the north, far and near, one after another, and all the kingdoms of the world that are on the face of the earth. And after them the king of Babylon shall drink.​

the king of Babylon is the last to be punished with the 'cups/ bowls of wrath'.

As to Ezekiel 29, let's look at that shall we?

8Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: I will bring a sword against you and cut off from you man and beast. 9The land of Egypt will become a desolate wasteland.

Then they will know that I am the LORD.

Because you said, ‘The Nile is mine; I made it,’ 10therefore I am against you and against your rivers. I will turn the land of Egypt into a ruin, a desolate wasteland from Migdol to Syene, and as far as the border of Cush. 11No foot of man or beast will pass through, and it will be uninhabited for forty years.

12I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolate lands, and her cities will lie desolate for forty years among the ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations and scatter them throughout the countries. 13For this is what the Lord GOD says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations to which they were scattered.

14I will restore Egypt from captivity and bring them back to the land of Pathros, the land of their origin. There they will be a lowly kingdom. 15Egypt will be the lowliest of kingdoms and will never again exalt itself above the nations. For I will diminish Egypt so that it will never again rule over the nations. 16Egypt will never again be an object of trust for the house of Israel, but will remind them of their iniquity in turning to the Egyptians. Then they will know that I am the Lord GOD.” 17In the twenty-seventh year, on the first day of the first month, the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18“Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre. Every head was made bald and every shoulder made raw. But he and his army received no wages from Tyre for the labor they expended on it. 19Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, who will carry off its wealth, seize its spoil, and remove its plunder. This will be the wages for his army. 20I have given him the land of Egypt as the reward for his labor, because it was done for Me, declares the Lord GOD.

21In that day I will cause a horn to sprout for the house of Israel, and I will open your mouth to speak among them. Then they will know that I am the LORD.”​

Ezekiel 30
1Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2“Son of man, prophesy and declare that this is what the Lord GOD says: Wail, ‘Alas for that day!’

3For the day is near, the Day of the LORD is near.

It will be a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations. 4A sword will come against Egypt, and there will be anguish in Cush when the slain fall in Egypt, its wealth is taken away,
and its foundations are torn down. 5Cush, Put, and Lud, and all the various peoples, as well as Libya and the men of the covenant land, will fall with Egypt by the sword. 6For this is what the LORD says: The allies of Egypt will fall, and her proud strength will collapse. From Migdol to Syene
they will fall by the sword within her, declares the Lord GOD. 7They will be desolate among desolate lands, and their cities will lie among ruined cities. 8Then they will know that I am the LORD when I set fire to Egypt and all her helpers are shattered. 9On that day messengers will go out from Me in ships to frighten Cush out of complacency. Anguish will come upon them on the day of Egypt’s doom.
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It's pretty clear that Egypt is getting punished during the 'day of the Lord's wrath'.

 

[Douggg]

What kingdom does the antichrist rule? You post these verses constantly, you should know this better.

The answer is as the king of Israel messiah for a short period, before revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all.

Before then, he comes out of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7, the Roman Empire. As a leader of a coalition of ten EU leaders.

And in the last remaining years of his time, granted to be dictator over the EU by that same coalition of ten EU leaders.

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The king of Babylon - when used in the metaphorical sense - is Satan. As well as the king of Tyrus, in Ezekiel 28:16-19.

 

[tranquil]

tranquil, to know what vision, go back a few verses earlier.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

The ram and the goat are all historic to us.

It is the vision of the little horn's actions that are time of the end.

Is that so, Doug?

Daniel 8

2And I saw in the vision; and when I saw, I was in Susa the citadel, which is in the province of Elam. And I saw in the vision, and I was at the Ulai canal. 3 I raised my eyes and saw, and behold, a ram standing on the bank of the canal. It had two horns, and both horns were high, but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last. 4 I saw the ram charging westward and northward and southward. No beast could stand before him, and there was no one who could rescue from his power. He did as he pleased and became great.

5As I was considering, behold, a male goat came from the west across the face of the whole earth, without touching the ground. And the goat had a conspicuous horn between his eyes. 6He came to the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing on the bank of the canal, and he ran at him in his powerful wrath. 7 I saw him come close to the ram, and he was enraged against him and struck the ram and broke his two horns. And the ram had no power to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled on him. And there was no one who could rescue the ram from his power. 8Then the goat became exceedingly great, but when he was strong, the great horn was broken, and instead of it there came up four conspicuous horns toward the four winds of heaven.​

15When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” 17So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”

18And when he had spoken to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the ground. But he touched me and made me stand up.

19 He said, “Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end.

20As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia. 21And the goat is the king of Javan/ Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.

​

 

[Douggg]

Is that so, Doug?

Daniel 8

2And I saw in the vision; and when I saw, I was in Susa the citadel, which is in the province of Elam. And I saw in the vision, and I was at the Ulai canal. 3 I raised my eyes and saw, and behold, a ram standing on the bank of the canal. It had two horns, and both horns were high, but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last. 4 I saw the ram charging westward and northward and southward. No beast could stand before him, and there was no one who could rescue from his power. He did as he pleased and became great.

5As I was considering, behold, a male goat came from the west across the face of the whole earth, without touching the ground. And the goat had a conspicuous horn between his eyes. 6He came to the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing on the bank of the canal, and he ran at him in his powerful wrath. 7 I saw him come close to the ram, and he was enraged against him and struck the ram and broke his two horns. And the ram had no power to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled on him. And there was no one who could rescue the ram from his power. 8Then the goat became exceedingly great, but when he was strong, the great horn was broken, and instead of it there came up four conspicuous horns toward the four winds of heaven.​

15When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” 17So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”

18And when he had spoken to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the ground. But he touched me and made me stand up.

19 He said, “Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end.

20As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia. 21And the goat is the king of Javan/ Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.

​

The ram and goat do not commit the vision of the stopping of the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation.

 

[tranquil]

The answer is as the king of Israel messiah for a short period, before revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all.

Before then, he comes out of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7, the Roman Empire. As a leader of a coalition of ten EU leaders.

​

And in the last remaining years of his time, granted to be dictator over the EU by that same coalition of ten EU leaders.

____________________________________________________
The king of Babylon - when used in the metaphorical sense - is Satan. As well as the king of Tyrus, in Ezekiel 28:16-19.

Why don't you explain away Daniel 10?

13The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia, 14and came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days. For the vision is for days yet to come.”

18Again one having the appearance of a man touched me and strengthened me. 19And he said, “O man greatly loved, fear not, peace be with you; be strong and of good courage.” And as he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, “Let my lord speak, for you have strengthened me.” 20Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the prince of Persia; and when I go out, behold, the prince of Greece will come.​

These preterists have done a number on you.

It explicitly says that the ruler of Javan will come in the 'latter days'.

 

[Douggg]

Why don't you explain away Daniel 10?

13The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia, 14and came to make you understand what is to happen to your people in the latter days. For the vision is for days yet to come.”

18Again one having the appearance of a man touched me and strengthened me. 19And he said, “O man greatly loved, fear not, peace be with you; be strong and of good courage.” And as he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, “Let my lord speak, for you have strengthened me.” 20Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the prince of Persia; and when I go out, behold, the prince of Greece will come.​

These preterists have done a number on you.

It explicitly says that the ruler of Javan will come in the 'latter days'.

tranquil, who was the first king of the Greek empire?

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Alexander, right? He is historic, not end times.

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Daniel 10, there were two of Satan's angels who positioned themselves in Persia in Greece, in order to try and stop the messenger to Daniel.

And because the messenger had to fight his way back to heaven to get passed those two wicked angels - it shows that there is an ongoing battle between heaven's angels and those angels cast out of the third heaven long ago - who now occupy the cosmos and the earth.

 

[tranquil]

The ram and goat do not commit the vision of the stopping of the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation.

It doesn't say that there are multiple visions. Just one. This one vision takes place at the time of the end.,

The ram and the goat's great horn and the little horn are all one vision. All these events take place in the latter days, culminating in the sanctuary being defiled by the little horn.

After 'Egypt' is taken over in Revelation 11:8, then the Daniel 8 little horn comes. This is the False Prophet, the #8 king from Revelation 17:11.

The goat's great horn being the #6 king from Revelation 17:10.

The Daniel 7 little horn being the #7 king from Revelation 17:10.

 

[Douggg]

It doesn't say that there are multiple visions. Just one. This one vision takes place at the time of the end.,

Within the overall vision, there is the one specific vision involving the little horn.

Which that specific vision is time of the end.

 

[tranquil]

tranquil, who was the first king of the Greek empire?

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Alexander, right? He is historic, not end times.

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Daniel 10, there were two of Satan's angels who positioned themselves in Persia in Greece, in order to try and stop the messenger to Daniel.

And because the messenger had to fight his way back to heaven to get passed those two wicked angels - it shows that there is an ongoing battle between heaven's angels and those angels cast out of the third heaven long ago - who now occupy the cosmos and the earth.

So, in other words, you have no idea how to deal with Daniel 10's ruler of Javan/ Greece.

That king you are talking about, the goat's great horn, doesn't exist yet. He is probably alive now, but that kingdom hasn't been given global dominion yet.

As to Alexander the Great, the point is that there is a present day offshoot little horn of Javan - it's Tyre.

the king of Tyre says to worship Javan, this unknown upcoming global government's 1st King (the #6 king from Revelation 17:10.)

 

[Douggg]

So, in other words, you have no idea how to deal with Daniel 10's ruler of Javan/ Greece.

tranquil, Daniel 10's prince of Persia, and prince of Greece are not human rulers.

Michael the angel helped the messenger get passed those two evil angels.

In Daniel 12, Michael is the prince, an angel, who stands up for the Daniel's people the Jews.

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

[tranquil]

Within the overall vision, there is the one specific vision involving the little horn.

Which that specific vision is time of the end.

So why does Zechariah 9 talk about the sons of 'Javan'/ 'Greece'?

9Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your King comes to you,righteous and victorious, humble and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. 10And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim and the horse from Jerusalem, and the bow of war will be broken. Then He will proclaim peace to the nations. His dominion will extend from sea to sea, and from the Euphrates to the ends of the earth. 11As for you, because of the blood of My covenant, I will release your prisoners from the waterless pit. 12Return to your stronghold, O prisoners of hope; even today I declare that I will restore to you double.​

13For I will bend Judah as My bow and fit it with Ephraim. I will rouse your sons, O Zion, against the sons of Greece. I will make you like the sword of a mighty man.​

 

[Douggg]

So why does Zechariah 9 talk about the sons of 'Javan'/ 'Greece'?

9Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your King comes to you,righteous and victorious, humble and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. 10And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim and the horse from Jerusalem, and the bow of war will be broken. Then He will proclaim peace to the nations. His dominion will extend from sea to sea, and from the Euphrates to the ends of the earth. 11As for you, because of the blood of My covenant, I will release your prisoners from the waterless pit. 12Return to your stronghold, O prisoners of hope; even today I declare that I will restore to you double.​

13For I will bend Judah as My bow and fit it with Ephraim. I will rouse your sons, O Zion, against the sons of Greece. I will make you like the sword of a mighty man.​

"sons of Greece" is talking about the gentile nations. Just as in Romans 1:16 and Romans 3:9.

 

[tranquil]

tranquil, Daniel 10's prince of Persia, and prince of Greece are not human rulers.

Michael the angel helped the messenger get passed those two evil angels.

In Daniel 12, Michael is the prince, an angel, who stands up for the Daniel's people the Jews.

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And what is Dan 12:1 proving? That it is the time of the end? Yes. That they are angels? No.

And when is the valley of Jehoshaphat judgment?

Joel 3

1a “For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. And I will enter into judgment with them there, on behalf of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations and have divided up my land, 3and have cast lots for my people, and have traded a boy for a prostitute, and have sold a girl for wine and have drunk it.

4“What are you to me, O Tyre and Sidon, and all the regions of Philistia? Are you paying me back for something? If you are paying me back, I will return your payment on your own head swiftly and speedily. 5For you have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried my rich treasures into your temples.b 6You have sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks in order to remove them far from their own border.​

When did this happen?

Joel is talking about the day of the Lord. Joel 1:15

 

[Douggg]

And what is Dan 12:1 proving? That it is the time of the end? Yes. That they are angels? No.

The messenger required the angel Michael's help because the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece were not human kings sitting on a physical throne, but evil angels of the air.

The messenger to Daniel was himself an angel, but not strong enough to overpower the two evil angels by himself.

The on going conflict between the good angels and Satan's evil angels will result in a war in Revelation 12:7-9, which Michael will lead his angels in a war against Satan's and his angels to cast them down to earth from the second heaven - as God will begin dismantling Satan's kingdom - metaphorically called Babylon the Great.