A scriptural question...

[Emmylouwho]

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

 

[charsan]

Just because the Bible is a Word of God does not mean it is easy to understand. Look what man has done to the one ancient Church in the west, it's a mess with everyone thinking they can look at a Bible and know how to do things n their own. The Bible was never meant for how most evangelicals use it, it was always the Church that was the pillar and foundation of truth.

 

[Emmylouwho]

Just because the Bible is a Word of God does not mean it is easy to understand. Look what man has done to the one ancient Church in the west, it's a mess with everyone thinking they can look at a Bible and know how to do things n their own. The Bible was never meant for how most evangelicals use it, it was always the Church that was the pillar and foundation of truth.

Does it say somewhere in the Bible that God is not the author of confusion? Or is that just Christian folklore?

 

[charsan]

1 Corinthians 14:33 in King James:

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

in other translations like the GNT:

because God does not want us to be in disorder but in harmony and peace.

As in all the churches of God's people,

So yes the Bible says that yet man sow confusion with the Bible not God.

 

[dzheremi]

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

Because it's not self-interpreting, and there developed over time several distinct traditions of Biblical exegesis, such that if you were in a certain area, you probably read more of a particular group of fathers or a particular methodological/philosophical tendency than others. There generally weren't such clear dividing lines except along language (i.e., I don't know when Augustine began being translated from Latin into Greek, but I know that his appearance on the Coptic calendar is a recent invention, despite Algeria being right next to Libya, which was one of the ancient territories of the Church of Alexandria), but even then in the same language there were differences: the Antiochians famously had a more literal/historical method of reading the Bible, while the Alexandrians are stereotyped as being more allegorical, though of course there is a fair bit of the 'other' in the each. There is also something unique regarding the school of Edessa (the ancient capital of Osroene, and probably the site of the first ever Christian kingdom, if we are to believe the King Abgar legend), which after some time would be known as the "School of the Persians" (since Mesopotamia, of which it was a part, was Persian territory), though since I am not a Nestorian I sort of tuned out on its history after the teachings of Theodore of Mopsuestia began to replace those of St. Ephrem the Syrian in the late 390s. This 'East Syriac' theology is definitely its own thing, though, and is supported to the extent that it can be by those of that tradition.

 

[Emmylouwho]

1 Corinthians 14:33 in King James:

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

in other translations like the GNT:

because God does not want us to be in disorder but in harmony and peace.

As in all the churches of God's people,

So yes the Bible says that yet man sow confusion with the Bible not God.

God. Is. Not. The. Author. Of. Confusion.

It is written in scripture. God doesn’t write confusing things. The Bible is confusing. Who wrote the Bible?

 

[joshua 1 9]

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

Because so few people study the Ancient Hebrew Letters that make up the Hebrew Alphabet. God declares the end from the beginning. So if we want to study the Bible we have to go back to the Beginning. Esp the first three chapters in Genesis. The letters are symbols that make up word pictures. So this is a very easy way to teach the Bible so people remember and understand. For Example the first letter B in the word beginning represents a tent. Over time and by extension this means dwelling. This represents the incarnation or the desire of God to dwell with man and become a part of His Creation. We esp see this in the Tabernacle in the wilderness where God dwelled with man in the Holy of Holies.

IF we just study the first letter of the first word in the Bible we could go on learning forever. All of the letters are eternal and there is no end to learning and understanding what the letters represent. The problem begins at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil with the serpent. So if you want to know why there is so much debate it is because of the serpent. Also we need to understand that there are different level or layer of meaning. The literal and there are hidden symbolic are archetype meanings. Today the word paradigm is becoming popular. Although many words can be used: Allegory, Parable, metaphor, homilies and so on.

 

[devin553344]

The parables are confusing, but God is not the author of confusion, wicked people were, thus requiring parables so they wouldn't kill Jesus early. Make sense?

 

[Aabbie James]

Who wrote the Bible?

God worked through a diverse collection of authors and personalities to deliver His Word to His people, without sacrificing the continuity or character of Scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
​

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.​

 

[Greengardener]

I am so appreciative of your question, EmmyLouWho! And Charsan's answer is good too. Here's my thought on it, for whatever benefit it might be for you.

The Scriptures are a kind of testimony about how things started, how God interacted with the people He created, what He put into place to help them figure out how to live in a way that works, and what happened when they didn't. If you can put together the prophets with the events of the roughly 300 years that Israel was a nation, you can see that all those woe-to-you prophecies were because the people were so corrupted in their thinking that they were sacrificing their own children thinking that this one living and loving God wanted them to do this. (If you look in the early books of the law, you see that God warned them long before that they would end up at this awful point if they didn't take care, but they overall didn't listen.) Fast forward several silent hundreds of years and we get another picture of that same God, Jesus who fleshed out the example of how God wanted us to live. I can't imagine it was easy living without sin - just think how hard it is for some people simply to avoid sweets when they are diabetic! And then He took on all the punishment for what people have done to themselves, to each other, and towards God. This is a big deal.

So why do we have so many debates? I think several things play into it. People only want to follow God just so far, so we all have to twist the words a bit to be comfortable where we think we need to be. Then we seem to want to try to make everyone else be in that same place. And along the same lines, people are still trying to be "better than" each other rather than better than they were and staying busy working on the beam in their own eyes to better see the measure of Christ in our own lives. The Pharisees/Sadduccees/other sects/scholars/philosophers and the religious hypocrites (play actors) didn't disappear over time. They were there in the scriptures and they are still with us. Some of them ARE us. They went their own way and tried to pull a following after themselves. And we do have 2 thousand years of cumulative error in church history with each break-off from the last "orthodoxy" thinking they have arrived and the rest are all wrong - another case of thinking we each have arrived and can check off all the boxes for God's acceptance while we despise the others for not agreeing with us. All that...and we still have the promise of a certain end of this present age.

The forum here has the unique opportunities to share additional wisdom or to perpetuate long held myths. But then, Jesus told us God's kingdom (those of us who want to live under God's rule?) would be like a field with both wheat and tares - and it's not up to us to do the weeding. He did say what would happen to both in the end, and that's probably the vital lesson. Be wheat. Work on your own chaff.

Conclusion: this walk is up to you. You've got the book in your hand if you want to study it. God is more than willing to give you all the help you need through His Holy Spirit so that you can see where others have wisdom and where they don't. Study and keep studying. Walk in it - and keep walking in it. God is interested in you and your life - and in your perseverance to the end.

OK, jumping off the soapbox now, lol - what a dynamic question. I hope the best for you!

 

[joshua 1 9]

Who wrote the Bible?

Moses wrote the Torah or the first five books of the Bible. There are 600,000 characters (strokes of the pen) that Moses used one for each of the 600,000 people that left Egypt that the Bible was written for. Only Jesus can add to what we receive from Moses. All the other books in the Bible explain or help us to understand what we receive from Moses or Jesus.

 

[Emmylouwho]

Because so few people study the Ancient Hebrew Letters that make up the Hebrew Alphabet. God declares the end from the beginning. So if we want to study the Bible we have to go back to the Beginning. Esp the first three chapters in Genesis. The letters are symbols that make up word pictures. So this is a very easy way to teach the Bible so people remember and understand. For Example the first letter B in the word beginning represents a tent. Over time and by extension this means dwelling. This represents the incarnation or the desire of God to dwell with man and become a part of His Creation. We esp see this in the Tabernacle in the wilderness where God dwelled with man in the Holy of Holies.

IF we just study the first letter of the first word in the Bible we could go on learning forever. All of the letters are eternal and there is no end to learning and understanding what the letters represent. The problem begins at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil with the serpent. So if you want to know why there is so much debate it is because of the serpent. Also we need to understand that there are different level or layer of meaning. The literal and there are hidden symbolic are archetype meanings. Today the word paradigm is becoming popular. Although many words can be used: Allegory, Parable, metaphor, homilies and so on.

In other words, if I do whatever it is you told me to do with word pictures and the first letters of words and stuff then maybe I might be able to understand the Bible?

 

[klutedavid]

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

That Jesus is lord of heaven and earth is beyond any debate.

That Jesus performed miracles is far beyond debate.

That the apostles struggled with this surpassing revelation is far beyond contention.

Many aspects of Christianity are never, ever debated.

The debates arise from church tradition and various interpretations of the scripture and they follow well worn paths of disagreement.

 

[Emmylouwho]

I am so appreciative of your question, EmmyLouWho! And Charsan's answer is good too. Here's my thought on it, for whatever benefit it might be for you.

The Scriptures are a kind of testimony about how things started, how God interacted with the people He created, what He put into place to help them figure out how to live in a way that works, and what happened when they didn't. If you can put together the prophets with the events of the roughly 300 years that Israel was a nation, you can see that all those woe-to-you prophecies were because the people were so corrupted in their thinking that they were sacrificing their own children thinking that this one living and loving God wanted them to do this. (If you look in the early books of the law, you see that God warned them long before that they would end up at this awful point if they didn't take care, but they overall didn't listen.) Fast forward several silent hundreds of years and we get another picture of that same God, Jesus who fleshed out the example of how God wanted us to live. I can't imagine it was easy living without sin - just think how hard it is for some people simply to avoid sweets when they are diabetic! And then He took on all the punishment for what people have done to themselves, to each other, and towards God. This is a big deal.

So why do we have so many debates? I think several things play into it. People only want to follow God just so far, so we all have to twist the words a bit to be comfortable where we think we need to be. Then we seem to want to try to make everyone else be in that same place. And along the same lines, people are still trying to be "better than" each other rather than better than they were and staying busy working on the beam in their own eyes to better see the measure of Christ in our own lives. The Pharisees/Sadduccees/other sects/scholars/philosophers and the religious hypocrites (play actors) didn't disappear over time. They were there in the scriptures and they are still with us. Some of them ARE us. They went their own way and tried to pull a following after themselves. And we do have 2 thousand years of cumulative error in church history with each break-off from the last "orthodoxy" thinking they have arrived and the rest are all wrong - another case of thinking we each have arrived and can check off all the boxes for God's acceptance while we despise the others for not agreeing with us. All that...and we still have the promise of a certain end of this present age.

The forum here has the unique opportunities to share additional wisdom or to perpetuate long held myths. But then, Jesus told us God's kingdom (those of us who want to live under God's rule?) would be like a field with both wheat and tares - and it's not up to us to do the weeding. He did say what would happen to both in the end, and that's probably the vital lesson. Be wheat. Work on your own chaff.

Conclusion: this walk is up to you. You've got the book in your hand if you want to study it. God is more than willing to give you all the help you need through His Holy Spirit so that you can see where others have wisdom and where they don't. Study and keep studying. Walk in it - and keep walking in it. God is interested in you and your life - and in your perseverance to the end.

OK, jumping off the soapbox now, lol - what a dynamic question. I hope the best for you!

So you agree that the Bible is confusing? Your response is a bit confusing as it strayed off topic.

 

[joshua 1 9]

In other words, if I do whatever it is you told me to do with word pictures and the first letters of words and stuff then maybe I might be able to understand the Bible?

I take an expository approach. This teaching has been preserved by the Kabbalah and the Hasidim. In Bible school we learn the meaning of a word by context. So we can check these two methods against each other. This is known as checks and balances.

I would not go by what any man says. Clearly we are told that the Holy Spirit of God is to be our Teacher and our Guide to show us the way of truth. This is the Holy Spirit dispensation. When the church age or the Time of the Gentiles ends - then we will go back to the Hebrew understanding of the Bible.

There is a day coming: "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent." (Zeph 3:9)

 

[Jonaitis]

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

On the contrary, it proves that the Scriptures IS the word of God. If the Scriptures were written by men, you wouldn't have all these different interpretations, denominations, and works written on it. How many denominations exist in Islam, Buddhism, or even Judaism? If the text were written by men, it would be easy to understand by men. I have always seen this as one of the best arguments that Christianity is the only true religion in the world, because people will not debate so hard for what is false, but what is clearly true. Satan has no time to waste with these other religions, he'd rather find reasons to divide churches. Where there is the most division, there is truth among them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The parables are confusing, but God is not the author of confusion, wicked people were, thus requiring parables so they wouldn't kill Jesus early. Make sense?

Jesus gave the reason why He spoke in parables. It was because the Jewish people He spoke to would not have been able to understand the plain truth and needed the parables to link their understanding in with what Jesus was wanting to teach them.

But, He did not speak in parables to His twelve disciples. He explained the parables and gave them the clear facts.

 

[Emmylouwho]

I take an expository approach. This teaching has been preserved by the Kabbalah and the Hasidim. In Bible school we learn the meaning of a word by context. So we can check these two methods against each other. This is known as checks and balances.

I would not go by what any man says. Clearly we are told that the Holy Spirit of God is to be our Teacher and our Guide to show us the way of truth. This is the Holy Spirit dispensation. When the church age or the Time of the Gentiles ends - then we will go back to the Hebrew understanding of the Bible.

There is a day coming: "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent." (Zeph 3:9)

So In addition to the Bible, you also need to know about Kabbalah, Hasidim, Bible schools...? Why can’t you just say, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and leave it at that? What more needs to be known?

 

[Greengardener]

So you agree that the Bible is confusing? Your response is a bit confusing as it strayed off topic.

As a child I found the Bible highly confusing. I mean, look...in just a few chapters into Genesis and already God was so mad at people that He saved only a few...I wasn't quite sure what to make of that. And Lot and his daughters - yuck. But I didn't know then how much God loved us, nor did I know how wicked people could be.

Another point where the scriptures became even less confusing when I stopped trying to make the Bible say all that the various commentators were trying to make it say.

And it took another turn at making more sense when I found a way to connect the prophets with the history to see things in context.

I can't imagine any of us here, no matter how long we've been reading this same book, has a magic answer to such a great question, EmmyLouWho. So I offered what I have, which are suggestions based on my own experiences. It might be that they would work for you to feel less confused about the scriptures. And since the end result is that you have to answer for your own life only to God (not for anyone else's choices and when it comes to eternal matters you don't have to answer to anyone else other than God), the bottom line of your question as I read it is that this is about helping you gain the wisdom that the Scriptures hold for you.

 

[A_Thinker]

... or why are we even here right now?

If the Bible is the true word of God, why do have centuries of commentaries and debates about what it actually MEANS?

Because we like to comment and debate ...