A Reasonable Sacrifice

[everbecoming2007]

In our Eucharistic liturgies what is meant when we pray to be a "reasonable" sacrifice?

 

[graceandpeace]

I've never heard that wording used before. I had to look, & it turns out that wording is used in Rite I. Interesting.

"Reasonable" perhaps means here rising to an expectation, not being less than what's possible? I'm guessing, I'm much more familiar with Rite II. Curious if there's any commentary out there?

 

[Philip_B]

I think the origins of the words are found in Romans 12:1

KJV

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.​

NRSV

I appeal to you therefore, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.​

I have always taken it to imply that we cannot give God more than God deserves, because he deserves our all, because he give his all to us in the person of Jesus Christ, in his Death and Resurrection, in the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar and in the Hope of Glory. Part of me would also like to see it imply that my living sacrifice include my intellect, not as in the abandonment of it but rather the application of it.

I think it is a good question. I will ponder it some more. Thank you.

 

[CanadianAnglican]

To quote from The English Liturgy:

The Reformers, in order to avoid misconceptions which had arisen in the Middle Ages with regard to the Eucharistic sacrifice, transformed it into the sacrifice of ourselves. "We offer and present ourselves, our souls and bodies, to be a reasonable (spiritual), holy, and lively (living) sacrifice unto thee," words which are based on Romans 12: I, where to the offerings of dead animals St Paul opposes the sacrifice which only a responsible human being can make, namely, that of himself. But sincerity forbids us to use such language until, by the act of Communion, we have identified ourselves with the offering made by Christ on the Cross. Having realised our union with him in his Body of the Church, and received the personal assurance of this union, we offer ourselves in virtue not of our own will-power but of our identification with him.

 

[BelleC]

To quote from The English Liturgy:

The Reformers, in order to avoid misconceptions which had arisen in the Middle Ages with regard to the Eucharistic sacrifice, transformed it into the sacrifice of ourselves. "We offer and present ourselves, our souls and bodies, to be a reasonable (spiritual), holy, and lively (living) sacrifice unto thee," words which are based on Romans 12: I, where to the offerings of dead animals St Paul opposes the sacrifice which only a responsible human being can make, namely, that of himself. But sincerity forbids us to use such language until, by the act of Communion, we have identified ourselves with the offering made by Christ on the Cross. Having realised our union with him in his Body of the Church, and received the personal assurance of this union, we offer ourselves in virtue not of our own will-power but of our identification with him.

That is a really beautiful explanation. Who is the author of this book? It seems like something I might like to read to understand a little bit more about the Anglican liturgy.

 

[CanadianAnglican]

The English Liturgy: In the Light of the Bible by WK Lowther Clarke

It's a wonderful book. The 1662 BCP Eucharistic Liturgy is divided into 40 topics so that the book can also be read as a Lenten devotional during the 40 days of Lent. I actually did that this past Lent and found it very helpful as I worship using the 1962 Canadian BCP which uses largely unchanged language. I haven't compared the US 1928/1979 Rite I language but I imagine it would also be quite similar. I very much recommend the book. Percy Dearmer also has some good stuff on the liturgies.

 

[Simon Crosby]

The phrase "reasonable sacrifice" predates the 1662 BCP and the reformers
and like most of the bright spots, came from the East.
The phrase is used in the anaphorae of the Dicine Liturgies of the Byzantine, West Syriac, Coptic, East Syriac and Armenian churches of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox communions, in their respective liturgies.

The Eucharist is described in the liturgy of St. Basil for instance as a bloodless, [rational/reasonable] sacrifice, the Greek word being related to logos.

The Book of Common Prayer is essentially an eviscerated Roman Missal augmented by poignant quotations from the Greek service books, which Cranmer or whoever actually wrote it on his behalf interpolated into the services where theynfelt it memorable, like the prayer of St. John Chrysostom.

The Scottish Episcopalians copied even more from the East; the Epiclesis you find in Scottish and American BCP editions up through the 1920s is taken from the Eastern Orthodox liturgy.

 

[Shane R]

The English Liturgy: In the Light of the Bible by WK Lowther Clarke

It's a wonderful book. The 1662 BCP Eucharistic Liturgy is divided into 40 topics so that the book can also be read as a Lenten devotional during the 40 days of Lent. I actually did that this past Lent and found it very helpful as I worship using the 1962 Canadian BCP which uses largely unchanged language. I haven't compared the US 1928/1979 Rite I language but I imagine it would also be quite similar. I very much recommend the book. Percy Dearmer also has some good stuff on the liturgies.

The '28 American and '62 Canadian are nearly identical. I did a comparison of the three main services, Morning and Evening Prayer and Holy Communion, a while back and the parts are the same with substantially the same text. Just off the top of my head, I do think the Canadian book offers a few more alternative prayers or anthems in the daily office.

 

[CanadianAnglican]

The phrase "reasonable sacrifice" predates the 1662 BCP and the reformers
and like most of the bright spots, came from the East.
The phrase is used in the anaphorae of the Dicine Liturgies of the Byzantine, West Syriac, Coptic, East Syriac and Armenian churches of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox communions, in their respective liturgies.

The Eucharist is described in the liturgy of St. Basil for instance as a bloodless, [rational/reasonable] sacrifice, the Greek word being related to logos.

The Book of Common Prayer is essentially an eviscerated Roman Missal augmented by poignant quotations from the Greek service books, which Cranmer or whoever actually wrote it on his behalf interpolated into the services where theynfelt it memorable, like the prayer of St. John Chrysostom.

The Scottish Episcopalians copied even more from the East; the Epiclesis you find in Scottish and American BCP editions up through the 1920s is taken from the Eastern Orthodox liturgy.

The book I quoted from actually discusses that in an earlier chapter. The quotation was a bit out of context but is more in reference to how that prayer helps to reorient the Eucharist back towards the more traditional understandings and away from the understanding that had become normative in Roman Western Christianity. Earlier chapters in the book analyse the ancient liturgies and reflect on their contribution to the BCP liturgies.

 

[everbecoming2007]

The book I quoted from actually discusses that in an earlier chapter. The quotation was a bit out of context but is more in reference to how that prayer helps to reorient the Eucharist back towards the more traditional understandings and away from the understanding that had become normative in Roman Western Christianity. Earlier chapters in the book analyse the ancient liturgies and reflect on their contribution to the BCP liturgies.

Does a bloodless, reasonable sacrifice have then anything to do with the intellect?

 

[CanadianAnglican]

I would say yes, and again from that quote from The English Liturgy: "words which are based on Romans 12: I, where to the offerings of dead animals St Paul opposes the sacrifice which only a responsible human being can make, namely, that of himself." This suggests the importance of intellect.

 

[everbecoming2007]

I would say yes, and again from that quote from The English Liturgy: "words which are based on Romans 12: I, where to the offerings of dead animals St Paul opposes the sacrifice which only a responsible human being can make, namely, that of himself." This suggests the importance of intellect.

I am wondering what sort of intellect this entails. How does this tie into the fact that we baptize infants or the severely mentally disabled, and in the case of the Episcopal Church, we commune them? I am assuming this has something to do with being human and not merely one's intellectual capacity.

 

[everbecoming2007]

I ordered the book. I hoped to obtain it electronically as my house is filling up with books, but I could not. It looked worth purchasing though, and I look forward to reading it.

 

[CanadianAnglican]

I think infant baptism should be discussed separately.

In terms of intellect, my understanding would be it's an issue of competence/understanding. As creatures of God who have been given the faculties to understand what he has done for us, the only possible sacrifice we can offer in return (as opposed to burnt offerings, grain offerings, etc of the Jewish temple) is ourselves. This book is a short Lenten devotional so it doesn't really get into the details of the theological implications of that definition of "reasonable" but I imagine there are books on that out there.

 

[everbecoming2007]

I do think in baptism we become God's own by giving ourselves to him.

 

[FireDragon76]

This also echoes the language in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom which the Eastern Orthodox use. It also uses the language of a "reasonable" or "logical" sacrifice.

 

[everbecoming2007]

This also echoes the language in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom which the Eastern Orthodox use. It also uses the language of a "reasonable" or "logical" sacrifice.

What does this mean for infants or the mentally disabled who partake of the Eucharist? Does this have anything to do with humans in general of whatever intellectual capacity possessing a rational soul?

 

[FireDragon76]

What does this mean for infants or the mentally disabled who partake of the Eucharist? Does this have anything to do with humans in general of whatever intellectual capacity possessing a rational soul?

No. It has to do with it being a bloodless sacrifice, Christ is not offered up again. It is a "sacrifice of praise" (also words from the liturgy).

 

[everbecoming2007]

No. It has to do with it being a bloodless sacrifice, Christ is not offered up again. It is a "sacrifice of praise" (also words from the liturgy).

A reasonable sacrifice is a bloodless one?

 

[Philip_B]

What does this mean for infants or the mentally disabled who partake of the Eucharist? Does this have anything to do with humans in general of whatever intellectual capacity possessing a rational soul?

Common Worship (CofE) renders it this way:

Almighty God,
we thank you for feeding us
with the body and blood of your Son Jesus Christ.
Through him we offer you our souls and bodies to be a living sacrifice.
Send us out in the power of your Spirit
to live and work to your praise and glory.
Amen.​

We offer what we have, not what we have not, so the child, or the intellectually differently-abled person is able to offer what they have.

Book of Common Prayer (1661-2 CofE)

O Lord, ourselves, our souls and bodies, to be a reasonable, holy, and lively sacrifice unto thee;​

We owe our all to God, and the Holy Eucharist helps us declare this.