A re-examination of nothing

[Floatingaxe]

This all, because I claim to be gay/bisexual, you make an uneducated judgment.

It's not uneducated at all. In fact, many uneducated people know what God thinks about it.

It has to do with knowing Jesus Christ intimately and believing Scripture, and not coming with an agenda and a mainipulative intent to reject some things and accept others and then rewrite yet others. That is not conducive to sanctification. In fact, it stunts spiritual growth completely.

Believing homosexuality as acceptable to God is a hellish lie, and will bring a just reward.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I read you loud and clear.

We have grave doubts about that. If you did, your responses would be quite different.

 

[davedjy]

We have grave doubts about that. If you did, your responses would be quite different.

LOL - how true.
I find it interesting, your post responses have a similar ring in pattern that mine do.

 

[davedjy]

It's not uneducated at all. In fact, many uneducated people know what God thinks about it.

It has to do with knowing Jesus Christ intimately and believing Scripture, and not coming with an agenda and a mainipulative intent to reject some things and accept others and then rewrite yet others. That is not conducive to sanctification. In fact, it stunts spiritual growth completely.

Believing homosexuality as acceptable to God is a hellish lie, and will bring a just reward.

Interesting, because I know for 100% fact for myself, that my spiritual growth has not diminished, but only amplified. I don't need to prove it to you, I have already proven it to God, and He knows me.


Many uneducated people have already formed their generalizations about what some Christians think of gays...so?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

It likes your tagline Davedjy. "Interpretation does not equal fact" -- it reads this the same as "the map bes not the territory" or "one's perception of what God's word says does not necessarily equate to what that word actually says." The fact that something bes taught a certain way through long dark ignorant centuries by them whats invaded the sanctuary, invaded the temple, sought to douse the light and co-opt spiritual awakening into programs for enslavement of the masses, does not make it truth merely through long repetition and dulling of the mind to imbibe it as reality. Eh?

 

[davedjy]

It likes your tagline Davedjy. "Interpretation does not equal fact" -- it reads this the same as "the map bes not the territory" or "one's perception of what God's word says does not necessarily equate to what that word actually says." The fact that something bes taught a certain way through long dark ignorant centuries by them whats invaded the sanctuary, invaded the temple, sought to douse the light and co-opt spiritual awakening into programs for enslavement of the masses, does not make it truth merely through long repetition and dulling of the mind to imbibe it as reality. Eh?

Thank you, I agree. People believe that there isn't any other way to view something, as there isn't any other way to see Scripture, but don't even realize they are cherry picking and no so literal on other passages, so it's hypocritical.

 

[Floatingaxe]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual will share in God's kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others. Some of you used to be like that. But now the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the power of God's Spirit have washed you and made you holy and acceptable to God.



When one comes to Jesus Christ, one is supposed to regenerate and walk in holiness. When one refuses, he is walking in disobedience:

Ephesians 2:1-3
In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God. You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn't obey God. Once we were also ruled by the selfish desires of our bodies and minds. We had made God angry, and we were going to be punished like everyone else.


Ephesians 5:6
Don't let anyone trick you with foolish talk. God punishes everyone who disobeys him and says foolish things.

Colossians 3:5-6
Don't be controlled by your body. Kill every desire for the wrong kind of sex. Don't be immoral or indecent or have evil thoughts. Don't be greedy, which is the same as worshiping idols.

God is angry with people who disobey him by doing these things.

 

[savedandhappy1]

...so that means you don't have to sell all and follow? How do you figure which scriptures you obey and which are only for certain people? That's always confused me.
tulc(just curious)

Did Jesus tell everyone He saw to sell everything and follow Him, literally?

I see Him tell everyone to go and sin no more, but don't see where He told them all to sell everything and follow Him.

I explained how we see in that scripture that the man put his money/wealth above God, which is why he was told to sell all.

So not real sure what is confusing you? Does the fact that his wealth was idolatry have no bearing on why he was told to sell all? If it doesn't then I could understand your confusion, but it is very important, and explained in my post.

savedandhappy1 (can't seem to understand why people only read part of a story, then get confused)

 

[davedjy]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual will share in God's kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others. Some of you used to be like that. But now the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the power of God's Spirit have washed you and made you holy and acceptable to God.

Everytime 1 Cor. 6:9 is posted, I will post the proper rebuttal.


1 Cor. 6:9 --


What does "arsenokoitai" really mean?

Nobody knows for certain.

"Arsenokoitai" is made up of two parts: "arsen" means "man"; "koitai" means "beds."

Although the word in English Bibles is interpreted as referring to homosexuals, we can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. IIf he had, he would have used the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males. We can conclude that he probably meant something different than people who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/homarsen.htm

 

[Floatingaxe]

Thank you, I agree. People believe that there isn't any other way to view something, as there isn't any other way to see Scripture, but don't even realize they are cherry picking and no so literal on other passages, so it's hypocritical.

Saying one follows Christ and yet follows after the lusts of the flesh in a perverse sexual behaviour is a perfect example of what a hypocrite is.

Job 27:8
For what is the hope of the hypocrite,
Though he may gain much,
If God takes away his life?

 

[davedjy]

Saying one follows Christ and yet follows after the lusts of the flesh in a perverse sexual behaviour is a perfect example of what a hypocrite is.

Job 27:8
For what is the hope of the hypocrite,
Though he may gain much,
If God takes away his life?

Yet you haven't posted any proof that I follow "perverse sexual behavior", or that homosexuality is "perverse sexual behavior", or that the Bible says that homosexuality is perverse sexual behavior.

Not surprising.

Aren't you the one that believes it's OK for women to be preachers? so I guess it's OK to take the Bible literally, only when needed or when it doesn't concern you specifically?

 

[savedandhappy1]

The KJV says:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause

Verse 23 connects the dot for you. It says that they worshiped graven images, which is why they were given up. Never does it say they were given over to complete spiritual ruin because of homosexuality.

And, for the I don't how many times, verse 27 says therefore also, as I pointed out in the last post about this.

It is a straw man because your argument relies on the notion that I am saying the Scriptures are wrong! Never did I say the Scriptures are wrong, I said that the interpretation you and others bring are wrong, and I said there is a false translation in 1 Tim and 1 Cor.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, and which translation gets it right?

Lets see I ask you that question before and you said KJV is the best translation, and my KJV says homosexualtiy is a sin.

What is the point in bringing that red herring argument here? Did I say that Jesus didn't raise from the dead? Did I discredit the Bible, or bring different interpretations of the passages?

Never did I try to "discredit the Bible", I only try to discredit your interpretations of these passages of Scripture.

I believe I stated why I was mentioning it, did you not read all of my post?

Let me word it differently. More and more people who don't believe that homosexuality is a sin, also don't believe all the stuff I pointed out in the other post, and even more things I didn't bother to post.

So I would really start questioning my understanding of the Bible, if the people who agreed with me on one subject also believed all the stuff I mentioned. As I said though, I must be the only one seeing this.

 

[Floatingaxe]

savedandhappy1~

I see it too, hon.

 

[savedandhappy1]

No argument with the statement in red as it knows levels of that far beyond what bes debated here. To the point where it feels applying that label to homosexuality bes the equivalent of applying the label of murder to accidentally knocking someone over with a bicycle on the sidewalk.

However, all such considerations of "degree" or "type" aside, it bes mystified why some consider the spiritual equivalent of disease (affliction) to be "offensive". Do we consider those with cancer or heart failure or leukemia or Lou Gehrig's disease or leprosy or mono or the pox or whatnot to be "offensive"? Or do we pity (not in the "pity-party" sense but in the compassion sense) them their plight and pray for their recovery?

I'm sorry but how old are you and what country do you live in? Is that why you talk/type the way you do?

If it doesn't have to do with your age or country is there anyway you could talk/type where it can be understood more easily as to what you are saying and meaning.

Thanks, and I hope I haven't offended you.

 

[davedjy]

And, for the I don't how many times, verse 27 says therefore also, as I pointed out in the last post about this.

It doesn't matter, "therefore" and "for this cause" are BOTH referring to worshiping the graven images, you have the verse numbers and the connection confused.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, and which translation gets it right?

Lets see I ask you that question before and you said KJV is the best translation, and my KJV says homosexualtiy is a sin.

The best translation for what? I believe the KJV uses "abusers of themselves with mankind" which still is an inaccurate, faulty translation. If I said the KJV is the most accurate, I probably meant it as in general with the whole Bible. I never said that the KJV is 100% accurate, as it has been proven to not be.

I believe I stated why I was mentioning it, did you not read all of my post?

Let me word it differently. More and more people who don't believe that homosexuality is a sin, also don't believe all the stuff I pointed out in the other post, and even more things I didn't bother to post.

So I would really start questioning my understanding of the Bible, if the people who agreed with me on one subject also believed all the stuff I mentioned. As I said though, I must be the only one seeing this.

Generalization. What you are finding is that there are liberals who don't agree with mainstream Christianity or believe in the Bible at all, so of course, they don't believe that Jesus is God. Follow that up with the fact that they don't believe that homosexuality is sin, but why would they believe that to start if they don't agree with Christian doctrine?

Are you trying to say that homosexuals are embracing the idea that Jesus isn't God or making some correlation?

 

[davedjy]

savedandhappy1~

I see it too, hon.

It's easy to generalize and "see" what you want, esp. when it supports your viewpoint.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yet you haven't posted any proof that I follow "perverse sexual behavior", or that homosexuality is "perverse sexual behavior", or that the Bible says that homosexuality is perverse sexual behavior.

Not surprising.

Aren't you the one that believes it's OK for women to be preachers? so I guess it's OK to take the Bible literally, only when needed or when it doesn't concern you specifically?

It has to do with rightly dividing the word of truth, and having the Holy Spirit living inside you, teaching you His truth, not mine. It helps to read the Scriptures with His eyes.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Some of you used to be like that. But now the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the power of God's Spirit have washed you and made you holy and acceptable to God.

When one comes to Jesus Christ, one is supposed to regenerate and walk in holiness. When one refuses, he is walking in disobedience.

At this point we bes going way off topic because your soteriology bes flawed and toxic. You speak of things only God can do as things humans bes "supposed to" do themselves. If this truly bes one's kink then they bes unregenerate themselves, seeking to establish their own righteousness and having not received the righteousness of JC. (Use of initials for respect, BTW, not disrespect as some have tried to falsely claim. This one should not write the name of the Holiest; it would be unseemly.)

It will not derail the thread with a full exposition on the difference between the subtle legalisms inherent in toxic soteriology and its skewed views of "justification" vs. "sanctification", "forensic" salvation versus "obedience", etc. but suffice it to say human wordings always givesy away them positions. Any what phrases it as a product of human effort or a requirement of human execution bes thereby demonstrating they have never known the True Walking in the Spirit in which bes not fulfilled the lusts of the flesh. For none having ever walked there even one hour would ever fail again to recognize the difference.

Oh that it might be delivered and walk there again ....

Ephesians 2:1-3
In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God. You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn't obey God. Once we were also ruled by the selfish desires of our bodies and minds. We had made God angry, and we were going to be punished like everyone else.

You unfortunately forgot verses 4 and 5 in this passage which finish out the FULL thought being expressed here:

4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

It would be patently absurd to retrogressively invoke a wrath which Creator has already dealt with by placing the burden of the sins of the entire world, past, present and future, upon JC, and in fact did He so -- according to verse 5 -- even when all ppls STILL BES in the place described by verses 1-3. No wonder you bes so frustrated and labor in vain, friend. You have the form of godliness but not the power thereof. You strain to illuminate the wrath already past and dealt with and fail to grasp the love that makes it so. You resolve your considerations under condemnation and doom and do not move on from there into Good News. Your consistent striving at verbal and literary exclusions of a segment of the population whom you deem unworthy from HEARING the Good News, strikes Moriah similar to them Pharisees whats shutsy the Gate to the Kingdom in ppls faces, not permitting them to enter neither entering themselves. It appears you will not permit yourself to move out of wrath and fear into resting in perfect love, so you will not permit others that either. How sad.

 

[davedjy]

It has to do with rightly dividing the word of truth, and having the Holy Spirit living inside you, teaching you His truth, not mine. It helps to read the Scriptures with His eyes.

Not possible. You can't read the Scripture with the Holy Spirit's eyes when reading a proven false/erroneous translation. Next?

 

[Floatingaxe]

It's easy to generalize and "see" what you want, esp. when it supports your viewpoint.

I have God's viewpoint. Children of the King always take on the King's view. It is stupid not to. We aren;t His ambassadors out there pushing our own views on things. No, we love Him and represent Him in all things. It's our job.