A re-examination of nothing

[David Brider]

If the individual wasn't homosexual, living among many homosexuals, and many of them promiscuous, his chance of getting HIV would have been pretty negligible. His immorality is a source of pain to us and to himself.

I quite understand that this must be a difficult situation for you, but try to understand that what you're doing - equating homosexuality with promiscuity and unsafe sex - is wrong. Some homosexuals choose to be promiscuous. Some homosexuals choose to engage in unsafe sex (and given the warnings about the possibilities of STDs, including HIV, anyone who does so is rather foolish, IMO). But homosexuality isn't in and of itself about promiscuity, nor is it about unsafe sex. So your "homosexuality hurts and harms people" is a flawed argument, generalising a specific incident.

David.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I quite understand that this must be a difficult situation for you, but try to understand that what you're doing - equating homosexuality with promiscuity and unsafe sex - is wrong. Some homosexuals choose to be promiscuous. Some homosexuals choose to engage in unsafe sex (and given the warnings about the possibilities of STDs, including HIV, anyone who does so is rather foolish, IMO). But homosexuality isn't in and of itself about promiscuity, nor is it about unsafe sex. So your "homosexuality endangers people" is a flawed argument, generalising a specific incident.

David.

Promiscuity is a very prevalent behaviour among the hedonistic homosexual community.

 

[David Brider]

I am amazed at the lack of trust in God our Father who has orchestrated and masterminded the translation of His holy Word to us in this era so that all may come to know Him.

If indeed God has orchestrated and masterminded the translation of the Bible* (not in itself a Biblical position, as far as I can tell), we would expect to see consistency of meaning between the different translations, would we not?

So any inconsistency between different translations would rather invalidate your position, correct?

David.

*We'll just have to agree to disagree over the issue of whether the Bible and the Word of God are the same thing, but I know what you mean...

 

[David Brider]

Promiscuity is a very prevalent behaviour among the hedonistic homosexual community.

That may well be the case (do you have specific figures?), but it doesn't change the fact that homosexuality does not equate with promiscuity. It doesn't even equate with sexual activity (at least two of the people who regularly engage in debates here have clearly stated that they're homosexual and are not sexually active, whilst I'm aware of one or two more who are in monogamous relationships).

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider,
The thread is about the examination of nothing, nothing being presented as text which countenances same-sex unions. Unles you have some text to offer from a translation, your point about different translations is irrelevant.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

[SIZE=+1]Bintheredunthatgotthetshirtdontfit. I posted several Greek and Hebrew references many times, and got the same old, lame old, "Neener, neener, neener, Is to! Is not! Nuh uh! Nuh huh!"[/SIZE]

Care to do so again? smallish, bite sized chunks would be good.

Same question to you, as well... don't the older translations of the Bible where the word is translated as "masturbation" indicate that there is some amount of disagreement?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I am amazed at the lack of trust in God our Father who has orchestrated and masterminded the translation of His holy Word to us in this era so that all may come to know Him.

We are seeing self-serving people change it to suit their own interests.

I will have nothing to to with such rewrites and fleshly pursuits that are only in existence to fulfill an evil agenda.

I know what my God tells me in His Word and you cannot influence me against Him in any way.

If God masterminded the translation... how come there are so many different translation versions, mistranslations, transcription errors, and general silliness in the Bible?

But what the hey, you'll just continue believing what you want, regardless of evidence.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Dear EnemyPartyII
No would most definitely not care to until I my question has been addressed. And in addition the Bible translations say what they say, if you don’t accept them as a proper translation then you say why not.

huh? what question? And I've repeatedly said why I don't think homosexual is an appropriate translation...
1. in other places in the Bible, arsenokroite has been translated to mean something OTHER than homosexual
2. in other translations of the Bible in older versions and into different languages, arsenokroite simply never refers to homosexuality.

 

[Floatingaxe]

If indeed God has orchestrated and masterminded the translation of the Bible* (not in itself a Biblical position, as far as I can tell), we would expect to see consistency of meaning between the different translations, would we not?

So any inconsistency between different translations would rather invalidate your position, correct?

David.

*We'll just have to agree to disagree over the issue of whether the Bible and the Word of God are the same thing, but I know what you mean...

There is consistency. I don't have an agenda to fulfill. I just want to know God on His terms.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Promiscuity is a very prevalent behaviour among the hedonistic homosexual community.

Got any evidence that homosexuals are any more promiscuous than heterosexuals, or is it just easier to hate people because of a baseless stereotype than find out anything factual?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

There is consistency. I don't have an agenda to fulfill. I just want to know God on His terms.

The Bible never claims God protects the translation... this seems to be yet more that you have made up without evidence

 

[Floatingaxe]

Homosexual Promiscuity

“Marriage Forum Fact Sheet – Homosexuality”​

​

Promiscuity is the factor that leads to health problems and monetary costs cited below.

• Prior to the AIDS epidemic, a 1978 study found that 75 percent of white, gay males claimed to have had more than 100 lifetime male sex partners: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250-499; 15 percent claimed 500- 999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. Levels of promiscuity subsequently declined, but some observers are concerned that promiscuity is again approaching the levels of the 1970s.
• In more recent years, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control has reported an upswing in promiscuity, at least among young homosexual men in San Francisco. From 1994 to 1997, the percentage of homosexual men reporting multiple partners and unprotected anal sex rose from 23.6 percent to 33.3 percent, with the largest increase among men under 25.7 AIDS no longer seems to deter individuals from engaging in promiscuous gay sex.
• Monogamy, meaning long-term sexual fidelity, is rare in GLB relationships, particularly among gay men. One study reported that 66 percent of gay couples reported sex outside the relationship within the first year, and nearly 90 percent if the relationship lasted five years.

·A1998 study in Seattle found that 10 percent of HIV-positive men admitted they engaged in unprotected anal sex, and the percentage doubled in 2000. According to a study of men who attend gay "circuit" parties, the danger at such events is even greater. Ten percent of the men surveyed expected to become HIV-positive in their lifetime. Researchers discovered that 17 percent of the circuit party attendees surveyed were already HIV positive. Two thirds of those attending circuit parties had oral or anal sex, and 28 percent did not use condoms.
·Studies show that 75-90 percent of women who have sex with women have also had sex with men. And the average gay or lesbian relationship is short lived. In one study, only 15 percent of gay men and 17.3 percent of lesbians had relationships that lasted more than three years. Most of the above facts taken from The Health Risks of Gay Sex by John R. Digs, Jr. M.D. which has 129 footnotes and hundreds of sources, many from Center of Disease Control.. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html


http://www.wpaag.org/Homosexuals%20and%20Same%20Sex%20Marriage.htm

 

[Floatingaxe]

In Their Own Words – Promiscuity Quotes by Homosexuals

• Gay author Gabriel Rotello, "Let me simply say that I have no moral objection to promiscuity…I enjoyed the '70's, I didn't think there was anything morally wrong with the lifestyle of the baths. I believe that for many people, promiscuity can be meaningful, liberating and fun." http://www.narth.com/docs/whyreveal.html. He also says, "Gay liberation was founded . . . on a 'sexual brotherhood of promiscuity,' and any abandonment of that promiscuity would amount to a 'communal betrayal of gargantuan proportions. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
• Signorile, another well known homosexual advocating safe sex, speaks of the "raunchy, impersonal atmosphere" of sex in public parks and bathrooms, "There's nothing morally wrong with this--and I say that as someone who has certainly had my share of hot public sex, beginning when I was a teenager and well into my adulthood.”http://www.nogaymarriage.com/talkingpoints.html."
• Bisexual website: “ [T]he hottest campus flicker of the moment is rompy Threesome, the jingle of which probably sums up the idea behind the new way of viewing life best: "One girl, two boys, three possibilities… the next object of your admiration could just as well be a male as a female" “The New Bi-standers” http://www.biwebsites.com/article1.html

·From a gay website:”Polyamory (many loves) is a relatively new word created for relationships where an adult intimately loves more than one other adult. This includes forms like open couples, group marriage, intimate networks, triads…It is another word for nonmonogamy. http://lovemore.com/aboutpoly


http://www.wpaag.org/Homosexuals%20and%20Same%20Sex%20Marriage.htm

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear EnemyPartyII

huh? what question? And I've repeatedly said why I don't think homosexual is an appropriate translation...

I posed a question to Davedjy which you chose to quote and comment on by asking me another question. I repeat until you address that question I am not expecting to have to answer another question form you. Perhaps you should not have quoted my question to Davedjy.
However,

in other places in the Bible, arsenokroite has been translated to mean something OTHER than homosexual

No I think not. ArsenokoiteV appears in 1 Cor 6 and 1 Tim 1. Where else does arsenokoite appear and is translated and which translation?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

In Their Own Words – Promiscuity Quotes by Homosexuals

• Gay author Gabriel Rotello, "Let me simply say that I have no moral objection to promiscuity…I enjoyed the '70's, I didn't think there was anything morally wrong with the lifestyle of the baths. I believe that for many people, promiscuity can be meaningful, liberating and fun." http://www.narth.com/docs/whyreveal.html. He also says, "Gay liberation was founded . . . on a 'sexual brotherhood of promiscuity,' and any abandonment of that promiscuity would amount to a 'communal betrayal of gargantuan proportions. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html
• Signorile, another well known homosexual advocating safe sex, speaks of the "raunchy, impersonal atmosphere" of sex in public parks and bathrooms, "There's nothing morally wrong with this--and I say that as someone who has certainly had my share of hot public sex, beginning when I was a teenager and well into my adulthood.”http://www.nogaymarriage.com/talkingpoints.html."
• Bisexual website: “ [T]he hottest campus flicker of the moment is rompy Threesome, the jingle of which probably sums up the idea behind the new way of viewing life best: "One girl, two boys, three possibilities… the next object of your admiration could just as well be a male as a female" “The New Bi-standers” http://www.biwebsites.com/article1.html

·From a gay website:”Polyamory (many loves) is a relatively new word created for relationships where an adult intimately loves more than one other adult. This includes forms like open couples, group marriage, intimate networks, triads…It is another word for nonmonogamy. http://lovemore.com/aboutpoly


http://www.wpaag.org/Homosexuals%20and%20Same%20Sex%20Marriage.htm

Women's Prayer and Action Group (WPAAG) sounds nicely objective *rolls eyes*

Now, you going to show the comparative stats for heterosexuals?

 

[David Brider]

There is consistency.

No, there isn't - over the ages, different translations have translated the word* differently. That's the exact opposite of consistency.

I don't have an agenda to fulfill.

I do. I want to be clear about whether or not the Bible has been translated accurately or not, particularly in the case of passages that are often used as an excuse for very unChristian behaviour and attitudes to homosexual people.

I just want to know God on His terms.

Me too.

David.

*We are talking about arsenokoiteV here, aren't we?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Dear EnemyPartyII

I posed a question to Davedjy which you chose to quote and comment on by asking me another question. I repeat until you address that question I am not expecting to have to answer another question form you. Perhaps you should not have quoted my question to Davedjy.
However,
No I think not. ArsenokoiteV appears in 1 Cor 6 and 1 Tim 1. Where else does arsenokoite appear and is translated and which translation?

Arsenokoités and Malakos: Meanings and Consequences
http://www.clgs.org/5/5_4_3.html

Dale Martin's "arsenokoites and malakos" tried and found wanting.http://http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Dale+Martin's+%22arsenokoites+and+malakos%22+tried+and+found+wanting-a0153025991

 

[EnemyPartyII]

ARSENOKOITES: The funny thing about this word is that as soon as scholars have finished admitting this is an extremely rare word that cannot be accurately defined, they set forth to tell you what it actually means. Realize this, there are zero known occurrences of arsenokoites in historically remaining ancient Greek literature predating this New Testament reference. ZERO! Even if Paul coined the term, the Bible itself offers no help, for in the whole Bible arsenokoites is found only in these two passages’ sin lists, so we have no context to help define the term—everything else is pure conjecture, not fa g-damning facts.
Later literature is also of no certitude, for it can only tell us various meanings for the term that existed in other centuries--meanings often change but even if they don't, how many terms have only one possible definition--doesn't context often shade meanings as well? So I can tell you what this scholar says it means and what that scholar says it means but at the end of the day where has it taken us when the facts are they're actually trying to pass off "educated guesses" as proof that God hates/loves fa gs. http://www.queerme.com/appendix_a.htm

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Women's Prayer and Action Group (WPAAG) sounds nicely objective *rolls eyes*

assuming you are being sarcastic here, i'll ask this question.

what about it isn't objective? the prayer part or the action part?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

assuming you are being sarcastic here, i'll ask this question.

what about it isn't objective? the prayer part or the action part?

go to their site and read their "about us" section... they don't seem exactly interested in finding any information that might challenge their pre-existing ideas.