A re-examination of nothing (2)

[tulc]

The Catholic Church needs to wise up. They are merely religious, not spiritual. Afterall, the Pope thimks Allah is Jehovah! Pretty confused old soul. (emph. added)

...you don't believe Jehovah is God?
tulc(that doesn't sound right)

 

[OllieFranz]

The Catholic Church needs to wise up. They are merely religious, not spiritual. Afterall, the Pope thimks Allah is Jehovah! Pretty confused old soul.

...you don't believe Jehovah is God?
tulc(that doesn't sound right)

The Blue Letter Bible website lists 16 different Hebrew names of God that are used in the Old Testament. Many evangelical websites list as many as 77 or 99! Most of those names are compounded from either "YHWH" or from "Elohim." In the Blue Letter Bible's list, the ones compounded from "Elohim" are "El shaddai," "El Elyon," and "El Olam."

In all of these cases, God is called "El" or "Elohim" in Hebrew. The Arabic "Allah" is cognate with the Hebrew "El(ohim)." It is the same name! In Arabic, "Allah" is simply the word "God." To Arabic Christians, the name of the Christian God is "Allah."

To deny that Jehovah ("YHWH") is the same as "Allah," is to deny that He is the same as the God called "Elohim" in the Bible.

[Tongue-in-cheek]Do you worship two Gods?[/Tongue-in-cheek]

 

[OllieFranz]

Anticipating your response, even if Arabic muslims use the name to designate their God, and even if their religion is "false," it does not change the fact that you are rejecting the God of Arabic Christians based on their native language.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Uhmmm no, actually that isn't the Church. The Church are those who follow Jesus. Believing "the Bible is Gods Word" is a doctrine some people in the Church believe, however the Church is much bigger then that.
tulc(just finishing one cup of coffee, getting ready to have another)

The Church is the family of God through Jesus Christ worldwide. Just as you said--why the "Uhmmm no..."??? We know that the Bible is God's written inspired Word to all mankind.



This is one commonality among us as brethren.

 

[Floatingaxe]

...you don't believe Jehovah is God?
tulc(that doesn't sound right)

Don't start, tulc. Jehovah is God--not Allah. Let's it get OT about this.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The Blue Letter Bible website lists 16 different Hebrew names of God that are used in the Old Testament. Many evangelical websites list as many as 77 or 99! Most of those names are compounded from either "YHWH" or from "Elohim." In the Blue Letter Bible's list, the ones compounded from "Elohim" are "El shaddai," "El Elyon," and "El Olam."

In all of these cases, God is called "El" or "Elohim" in Hebrew. The Arabic "Allah" is cognate with the Hebrew "El(ohim)." It is the same name! In Arabic, "Allah" is simply the word "God." To Arabic Christians, the name of the Christian God is "Allah."

To deny that Jehovah ("YHWH") is the same as "Allah," is to deny that He is the same as the God called "Elohim" in the Bible.

[Tongue-in-cheek]Do you worship two Gods?[/Tongue-in-cheek]

That is all hype. You have bought it, hook, line and sinker.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Anticipating your response, even if Arabic muslims use the name to designate their God, and even if their religion is "false," it does not change the fact that you are rejecting the God of Arabic Christians based on their native language.

Muslims who become saved in Jesus Christ abandon the word, "Allah", because they know that who they used to worship is a demonic entity.

 

[tulc]

The Church is the family of God through Jesus Christ worldwide. Just as you said--why the "Uhmmm no..."??? We know that the Bible is God's written inspired Word to all mankind.



This is one commonality among us as brethren.

The "uhmmm no..." was because not all Christians agree with that view.
tulc(just thought it needed pointing out)

 

[tulc]

Don't start, tulc. Jehovah is God--not Allah. Let's it get OT about this.

Does that mean people in France aren't Christian because they don't believe Jehovah is God they believe He is Dieu?
tulc(seems a little harsh that everyone has to use English in order to be a Christian)

 

[Floatingaxe]

The "uhmmm no..." was because not all Christians agree with that view.
tulc(just thought it needed pointing out)

Are you playing devil's advocate again, tulc?


I don't think we need that...

 

[Floatingaxe]

Does that mean people in France aren't Christian because they don't believe Jehovah is God they believe He is Dieu?
tulc(seems a little harsh that everyone has to use English in order to be a Christian)

French-speaking Africans who were once Muslims, but have found salvation in Jesus Christ call Him, "Dieu"...not "Allah" They know the difference. They know who their God is...and who their god was.

 

[Brieuse]

Does that mean people in France aren't Christian because they don't believe Jehovah is God they believe He is Dieu?
tulc(seems a little harsh that everyone has to use English in order to be a Christian)

Goodness me, I can't believe this forum is now demanding we have to call God by the name of Jehova and not other language translations.

 

[tulc]

Are you playing devil's advocate again, tulc?

More of a "Christian's advocate" because I was pointing out not all Christians agree with that.

I don't think we need that...

Evidently we did because you had cut out a large segment of the Church.
tulc(just a Christian hanging on CF)

 

[Floatingaxe]

More of a "Christian's advocate" because I was pointing out not all Christians agree with that.

Evidently we did because you had cut out a large segment of the Church.
tulc(just a Christian hanging on CF)

I haven't cut out anyone. If true Christians don't agree, then they had better take a couple dollars out and go and buy a clue!

 

[David Brider]

I haven't cut out anyone. If true Christians don't agree, then they had better take a couple dollars out and go and buy a clue!

There are many things on which Christians disagree, though. There are Christians who believe that the Bible and the Word of God are the same thing, and Christians who believe that they're not. There are Christians who believe that capital punishment is acceptable, and Christians who believe that it goes right against Jesus' teaching. There are Christians who believe that war is acceptable, and Christians who believe that pacifism is more in line with Biblical teaching. There are Christians who believe that our eternal destinies are predestined, and Christians who believe that God has given us free will. There are Christians who believe that homosexual activity is a sin, and Christians who don't.

Christians don't agree on everything.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider,

Trouble is, as I've pointed out before, that's actually a pretty weak verse for demonstrating that the Bible is, or might be, the Word of God.

Yet I think it’s a strong verse and it was only one of several. But actually if the Bible records Jesus saying His words are from the Father God and quotes the OT scriptures as what God told them the Bible contains the word of God. Therefore it is impossible to say the Bible isnt the word of God. One can say it contains the word of God and ones can say it is the word of God as in containing the word of God and being inspired by the Holy Spirit

Incidently Paul himself used the phrase "the Word of God"

well he would do as his testimony is from the risen Lord not man, don’t you believe the Bible?

The Bible contains the words of many people - including God.

But I wasn’t referring to the words of many people, I was referring to the Bible containing the word of God. My point was based on the Bible contains the direct words of God.

But that doesn't make it The Word of any of those people.

But again I was referring to the Bible containing the word of God. My point was based on the Bible contains the direct words of God. There is no point me debating with you of you can be bothered addressing my points.

No - they're certainly God's words

OK, so the Bible contains God’s direct words so one cant say the Bible isn’t the word of God. One could however say the Bible isn’t just the word of God or all the word of God, but I would say that’s disbelief as well as that denies the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

But not His Word.

Jesus said His words will never pass away... the Bible says Jesus is the Word.

Jesus never said that about His words - that was the writer of the letter to the Hebrews referring to the Word of God.

Yes He did..
Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Mark 13:31 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Luke 21:33 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”

When was He ever recorded as saying those things,

John 6:63 “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.”

Sorry but if your knowledge of the Bible is so lacking you shouldn’t be making claims.

He doesn't quote the Scriptures as such - He quotes God's words recorded in the Scriptures. But that's still not the same thing as equating either God's word or the Scriptures themselves with "the Word of God".

It says graphe and then quotes OT Scriptures, yes He most definitely quotes the OT scriptures and He also have you not read what God told them/said to them. Of course its God’s words, Jesus is the Son of God, you are denying God.

It's a statement of different belief to your own.

Well yes as demonstarted we have different beliefs but as demonstated you have made claims to the Bible not saying what Ihave shown you it says, so you believe the Bible not to be true, not believing is unbelief. [/quote] I believe the Bible. [/quote] Well evidently not. [/quote] I believe the Word of God. [/quote] evidently not.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

For example, the Catholic Church acknowledges evolution and Big Bang cosmology as scientific fact. This is at variance to what the Bible SAYS, but not what it MEANS.

is it really? It doesn't take much imagination to understand figurative and literal passages in scripture. In fact it takes much less imagination to understand a correlation between the two than what is required to justify same-sex sex through scripture.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear tulc,

Uhmmm no, actually that isn't the Church. The Church are those who follow Jesus. Believing "the Bible is Gods Word" is a doctrine some people in the Church believe, however the Church is much bigger then that.

The Bible contains the words of Jesus Christ who is God so the Bible is the word of God. The church is as Jet_A-Jockey said, the body of believers. In the Bible we see Jesus Christ said that we are His disciples when we do what He says, and His sheep know His voice. Therefore the church have to know Jesus Christ and believe in Him to be able to follow, otherwise they might be following something or someone else.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

since when does mainstream Christianity consider the Bible "God's word"? The Catholics and Anglicans sure don't... thats pretty mainstream...

the bible is the inspired word of God. Pick it apart and play word games if you want but you know what I mean.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Well if you want to believe the Bible is God's word to us, good luck to you.

Sadly there is absolutely no evidence to support this theory.

Had to revisit this post. If the bible is not a direct revelation of the mind of God to us, then what is? Should we be turning over rocks looking for God-infos?

and would someone please for the 3rd time give some response to this post that I am about to quote:

Since you are giving concrete definitions then what do you say about the other definitions for the word 'koitai'? it's not like the dictionary only lists one possible definition. Here are some examples of compound words using koitai and that do not mean beds.
In these examples it is referenced as a term indicating sexual action. There are other examples of a non-sexual nature as well.
POLUKOITOS sleeping with many men or women, ADELFOKOITIA incest of brother or sister,KLEYIKOITHS seeking illicit sex, MHTROKOITHS incestuous person, i.e. with mother.

The 'promiscuous man' argument falls short against 'pornoi' which is mentioned earlier in the verse, and there is no reason to believe paul is being redundant here.