A re-examination of nothing (2)

[BreadAlone]

Dear and charitable friend ~
If it did not exist, then we can safely assume that the scriptures were indeed NOT talking about gay relationships, may we not?

Homosexual marriage wasn't an issue in Isreal because homosexuality was strictly condemned.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Homosexual marriage wasn't an issue in Isreal because homosexuality was strictly condemned.

But you claimed that those relationships did not exist - so I don't understand how they could have been condemned. How does one condemn something that IS NOT?

 

[BreadAlone]

But you claimed that those relationships did not exist - so I don't understand how they could have been condemned. How does one condemn something that IS NOT?

Homosexuality was condemned. If the act is condemned, it's condemned. The relationships don't need to be mentioned if the act is condemned. (Unless you're going to have a non-sexual relationship..but then how is that a homosexual relationship as opposed to a good friendship?)

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Homosexuality was condemned. If the act is condemned, it's condemned. The relationships don't need to be mentioned if the act is condemned. (Unless you're going to have a non-sexual relationship..but then how is that a homosexual relationship as opposed to a good friendship?)

Keep wrestling with it.

I think you'll get the idea.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Homosexual marriage wasn't an issue in Isreal because homosexuality was strictly condemned.

once again... the original texts don't say that. You have been misinformed

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Homosexuality was condemned. If the act is condemned, it's condemned. The relationships don't need to be mentioned if the act is condemned. (Unless you're going to have a non-sexual relationship..but then how is that a homosexual relationship as opposed to a good friendship?)

if you have a girlfriend you don't have sex with... is that a heterosexual relationship, or just a good friendship?

You are TOTALLY mislead if you think homosexual relationships are JUST friends who have sex... homosexuals in commited relationships have exactly the same feelings and mean exactly the same to each other as members of a committed heterosexual relationship

 

[ChaliceThunder]

if you have a girlfriend you don't have sex with... is that a heterosexual relationship, or just a good friendship?

You are TOTALLY mislead if you think homosexual relationships are JUST friends who have sex... homosexuals in commited relationships have exactly the same feelings and mean exactly the same to each other as members of a committed heterosexual relationship

EXACTLY - and homosexual relationships are NOWHERE condemned in the bible.

 

[Floatingaxe]

EXACTLY - and homosexual relationships are NOWHERE condemned in the bible.

An astute reader of the Word of God would extrapolate naturally that if the homosexual act is detested by God, then a marriage-like relationship between two same-gendered people would be also detested by God and rather a valueless enterprise.

 

[davedjy]

For which he sorely grieved his sin, repented and turned from his wickedness---just as we all need to do. And God said there was no grwater king in Israel, because his heart was turned toward the Lord. Greatness comes from a soft heart toward God, a readiness to repent and submit completely to all His ways.

The point is, it was very debased...murdering a person is much more debased, yet you seem to make it like David being debased is out of character for him.

Btw, that still does not make a relationship with someone else that happens to be the same gender "debased". Matthew 7:18 says: "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit". Yet, what has been seen is plenty of same sex, (monogamous) relationships that produce good fruit.

 

[davedjy]

if you have a girlfriend you don't have sex with... is that a heterosexual relationship, or just a good friendship?

You are TOTALLY mislead if you think homosexual relationships are JUST friends who have sex... homosexuals in commited relationships have exactly the same feelings and mean exactly the same to each other as members of a committed heterosexual relationship

Excellent point.

 

[davedjy]

An astute reader of the Word of God would extrapolate naturally that if the homosexual act is detested by God, then a marriage-like relationship between two same-gendered people would be also detested by God and rather a valueless enterprise.

An astute reader of the Word of God would also see that if the only thing mentioned about heterosexual acts were in the context of idolatry, and pagan sex rituals, then ALL heterosexual marriage would be banned too.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The point is, it was very debased...murdering a person is much more debased, yet you seem to make it like David being debased is out of character for him.

Murder is a sin like all others, and keeps us from God like any other. It's repentance that David had, that closed the breach in his relationship with his heavenly Father. We can all have such a relationship with God!

Btw, that still does not make a relationship with someone else that happens to be the same gender "debased". Matthew 7:18 says: "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit". Yet, what has been seen is plenty of same sex, (monogamous) relationships that produce good fruit.

All sin debases a person, especially sin that is consciously committed without remorse.

Same-sex relationships produce no fruit. They exist outside of the Kingdom realm. God abhors them, and is not in them---He cannot and will not bless sin. It is no wonder they cannot procreate together.

 

[davedjy]

Same-sex relationships produce no fruit. They exist outside of the Kingdom realm. God abhors them, and is not in them---He cannot and will not bless sin. It is no wonder they cannot procreate together.

Reproduction is not the only fruit mentioned, and YES, there are plenty of homosexual relationships that produce good fruit. It doesn't have to be in the sense of reproduction, there are plenty of heterosexual couples that cannot have children, would they appreciate being told that their relationships do not produce good fruit?

It's entirely obvious why there are homosexual relationships that produce good fruit. When you have two human beings that happen to be the same gender who genuinely love each other, no shallow notion could ever change that love or the fact they are in a bond that can be blessed by God for genuine love.


Genuine love is not perverse and it is genderless.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

An astute reader of the Word of God would extrapolate naturally that if the homosexual act is detested by God, then a marriage-like relationship between two same-gendered people would be also detested by God and rather a valueless enterprise.

Alas - you strive to make the scriptures say what you want them to say, based upon your prejudice.

It's ok - God will forgive that.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Reproduction is not the only fruit mentioned, and YES, there are plenty of homosexual relationships that produce good fruit. It doesn't have to be in the sense of reproduction, there are plenty of heterosexual couples that do cannot have children, would they appreciate being told that their relationships do not produce good fruit?

It's entirely obvious why there are homosexual relationships that produce good fruit. When you have two human beings that happen to be the same gender who genuinely love each other, no shallow notion could ever change that love or the fact they are in a bond that can be blessed by God for genuine love.


Genuine love is not perverse and it is genderless.

God is the judge of what is good. He says homosexuals commit abominations. Therefore a relationship that involves regular abominating is going to be fruitless in His eyes, no matter what people think.

Isaiah 5:20
What sorrow for those who say
that evil is good and good is evil,
that dark is light and light is dark,
that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.

1 John 4:10
This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Alas - you strive to make the scriptures say what you want them to say, based upon your prejudice.

It's ok - God will forgive that.

No, I am free to relate what God teaches. I make it a rule to always conform myself to His ways. Less trouble in life, that way, and far more blessing, joy, love and prosperity, too.

 

[davedjy]

God is the judge of what is good. He says homosexuals commit abominations. Therefore a relationship that involves regular abominating is going to be fruitless in His eyes, no matter what people think.

Isaiah 5:20
What sorrow for those who say
that evil is good and good is evil,
that dark is light and light is dark,
that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.

1 John 4:10
This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.

God has not mentioned homosexuals anywhere in His Word, ever (in the original Hebrew and Greek languages of the Scriptures).

Name some actual, tangible attributes that prove bad fruit, because that is what we need here.


Btw, you have not proven that same sex love is evil in the slightest way.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

No, I am free to relate what God teaches. I make it a rule to always conform myself to His ways. Less trouble in life, that way, and far more blessing, joy, love and prosperity, too.

If only you (or any of us) could live up to that rule.

 

[David Brider]

Homosexuality was condemned. If the act is condemned, it's condemned.

Homosexuality isn't an act. The strongest case you can make is that male-male sex is condemned, but it's doubtful that that refers to all instance of male-male sex as opposed to (say) rape and/or shrine prostitution.

The relationships don't need to be mentioned if the act is condemned. (Unless you're going to have a non-sexual relationship..but then how is that a homosexual relationship as opposed to a good friendship?)

As I've already pointed out, my relationship with my fiancée is non-sexual. That doesn't change the fact that it's considerably more than a good friendship.

David.

 

[David Brider]

Wrong. The Old Testament says homosexuality is an abomination.

Only if you go from a very skewed definition of "homosexuality".

David.