• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

A Question Rgarding Embedded Age

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why don't you do links? You want people to cut and paste entire articles because you don't want to go to another page to read exactly the same thing? You demand that we bring it to you?

What's up with that?
I know the feeling why some may not like people spamming links that they think validate their claims/beliefs. They post links or rfer to something like google scholar, but do not take the relevant points they want to agree with from those links.

When people post the points they think are valid, it is possible to look at them, (using any links as support that the points are valid science claims) and deal with them. Those who hide behind some cloud of vague links are avoiding truth and reality and issues.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't know who said it but:
If people can believe in magic they can believe in anything, their beliefs are limited only by their imaginations,
if someone can imagine it others will believe it, hundreds of religions around the world will attest to that.
To believe that the universe came sailing out of a little hot speck too small to even see that appeared for reasons they know not at all is to believe in magic. To believe that animals and mankind itself resulted from worms having sex is to believe in magic.

To accept a real God and a known spiritual is to believe in things somewhat above the paygrade of degraded so called science.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No, you have not been true to your word. Your word said you had 'mountains of evidence'. You've apparently made a false claim.
Careful he is happy probably to keep pretending until the thread goes over 1000 posts:)
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yes dad, I can see how facts can be very bothersome for you.




Who is this "God" creature. Actually we know that God, as you picture him, did not "breath life" into anything.

God is known and has been through all ages and so are the many validations and proofs He performed. To be in delirious denial is not a condition we can cure in this thread I suspect.


Unlike you I do not need to lie.

Strange behavior for a guest on a Christian forum.
The facts are on my side. Oh wait, you don't like facts.
If you posted a fact we could see for ourselves!



Nope, most people live along water sources like rivers. Rivers and other water sources tend to flood. Stories grow with the telling so the story of a gigantic flood is to be expected.
Speculation, and that denies the similarities to the flood of Noah.

The population argument is extremely foolish. A person worked backwards and incorrectly assumed a constant population growth rate. Second it allows for only about 100 people to make the pyramids and that would have to be the population of almost the whole world. The population argument is one of the most foolish ones that creationists have ever come up with.
Your basis for how fast the population grew is based on the present. Quite weak and silly.
Nothing points to a flood. At least nothing of substance.
Your opinion is noted for what is worth, and what God claimed happened is noticed also, for what it is worth!
 
Upvote 0

EternalDragon

Counselor
Jul 31, 2013
5,757
26
✟28,767.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
Try this. Go to Google Scholar, search biological evolution. What did I get, 3,120,000 hits. Kind of hard to see all the mountains when you are covered in them.

biological evolution - Google Scholar

I punched in intelligent design and got 2,100,000 hits. So can we conclude that ID theory also has mountains of evidence?
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟106,373.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
I punched in intelligent design and got 2,100,000 hits. So can we conclude that ID theory also has mountains of evidence?

But review what you get on both searches. What is the actual content? Yes, there are some "ID/Creationist" hits, but the vast majority do not relate to it in the slightest.
 
Upvote 0

EternalDragon

Counselor
Jul 31, 2013
5,757
26
✟28,767.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
But review what you get on both searches. What is the actual content? Yes, there are some "ID/Creationist" hits, but the vast majority do not relate to it in the slightest.

You want me to review all 5 million plus hits????

I did exactly what you did. Punched it in and reported the results
as "mountains of evidence" for ID. Would you like to retract your
statement?

"Try this. Go to Google Scholar, search biological evolution. What did I get, 3,120,000 hits. Kind of hard to see all the mountains when you are covered in them."
 
Upvote 0

Tellastory

Hebrews 13:13
Mar 10, 2013
780
43
In God's Hand
✟23,686.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Wow Tellastory, are you trying to discredit ice core chronology now?

If there was a global flood which science is not taking into account for dating by yearly layering, then they are way off when it comes to the ice cores.

You cannot have a yearly layering when there is a cataclysmic upheavel like that in the world.

And several evolutionist scientists has been cited in proposing that a global flood had occurred.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/science/new-approach-to-explaining-evolutions-big-bang.html?_r=1&

But those genes evolved in bilaterians tens of millions of years before the Cambrian explosion put them to the test, notes Dr. Smith. “They had the capacity,” he said, “but it hadn’t been expressed yet.” -

It took a global flood to tap that capacity, Dr. Smith and Dr. Harper propose. They base their proposal on a study published last year by Shanan Peters of the University of Wisconsin and Robert Gaines of Pomona College. They offered evidence that the Cambrian Explosion was preceded by a rise in sea level that submerged vast swaths of land, eroding the drowned rocks.

I can cite more referenced articles, but I'll take you to this site instead.

CEH: Global Flood OK if Proposed by Evolutionists

So this is why fossils record datings would be way off and why they fossil would date more than 6,000 years because the "reservoir effect" cause by the global flood would throw off the fossil dating as well.

Did you see my thread on the lost squadron?

Nope. I'm out of time today.
 
Upvote 0

lasthero

Newbie
Jul 30, 2013
11,421
5,795
✟236,977.00
Faith
Seeker
They offered evidence that the Cambrian Explosion was preceded by a rise in sea level that submerged vast swaths of land, eroding the drowned rocks.

You should probably look up their exact words on the subject and not what the NYTimes says they said - newspaper articles have the tendency to blow things out of proportion when it comes to scientific findings.

So this is why fossils record datings would be way off and why they fossil would date more than 6,000 years because the "reservoir effect" cause by the global flood would throw off the fossil dating as well.

The reservoir effect is a problem with carbon dating. For dating methods that don't use carbon, it's not an issue.
 
Upvote 0

lasthero

Newbie
Jul 30, 2013
11,421
5,795
✟236,977.00
Faith
Seeker
If there was a global flood which science is not taking into account for dating by yearly layering, then they are way off when it comes to the ice cores.

You cannot have a yearly layering when there is a cataclysmic upheavel like that in the world.

We know the layering was consistent. We have way to verify this.


http://www.asa3.org/aSA/PSCF/2003/PSCF12-03Seely.pdf

There are a dozen or so important Greenland ice cores, but the latest and greatest are GRIP (Greenland Ice Project) and GISP2 (Greenland Ice Sheet Project 2), which were extracted at the Summit where the ice rarely melts. GRIP was dated by counting back annual layers from the surface to c. 14,500 BP (before the present, dated 1950) using electrical conductivity method (ECM, see below) and the rest of the ice core was dated on the basis of flow modeling and chemical techniques. GISP2 was dated by visually counting annual hoar frost layers back to c. 12,000 BP and from 12,000 to 110,000 BP by visually counting annual dust layers.
Back to 12,000 BP, this counting was validated by a very close agreement of three independent methods of counting the annual layers. From 12,000 BP back to 40,000 BP, the counting was validated by a very close agreement of two independent methods of counting the annual layers, and from 40,000 BP back to 110,000 BP by a close agreement of two independent methods. Also, despite the different methods used for dating GRIP and GISP2, there is "excellent agreement" between them (and with deep sea cores as well); so the cores corroborate each other.

The first way we know the top 12,000 layers are annual is because the snow that falls in the summer in Greenland is affected by the sun (which only shines in the summer) in such a way that its crystals become much more coarsegrained than winter snow.

Another way to distinguish the annual layers is to note the dust concentrations. In the late winter/early spring when the wind is stronger than usual, significantly more dust (insoluble matter of various kinds) is carried in the air -- even from the Southern hemisphere and Asia -- and is deposited in the layers of snow in Greenland.

The third way annual layers can be distinguished is via the electrical conductivity of the layers.16 In the spring and summer when the sun is shining, nitric acid is produced in the stratosphere and enters the snow, but this does not happen in the winter.17 The acid in the spring/summer layer enables an electrical current to easily flow through that layer, but the relative lack of acid in the winter layer allows much less electricity to flow through that layer. So, as two electrodes mechanically run down the ice core the readout (mm by mm) of the resultant flows of electricity shows the successive years as a series of peaks (summer) and valleys (winter).

It is to a large extent the correlation and corroborating testimony of these three main methods of counting the annual layers in the GISP2 core which guarantees the validity of the ice core dating.22 The three methods have excellent correlation with each other down to 2500 m, that is, back to c. 57,000 BP.23 In the upper 2300 m (down to c. 40,000 BP) the correspondence of the three methods has been called "remarkable."24

In the lower half of GISP2 (1,678 meters to the bottom) where the dust is more concentrated, Ram and Koenig could scatter the laser light directly off the ice without having to melt it -- and could do this mechanically one mm at a time -- and feed the data directly into a computer. The readout showed the seasonal variations as a series of peaks and valleys. In this way, they were able to date the ice down to 2,849 meters at around 127,600 BP.

At c. 2,464 meters down, their dating of the volcanic ash found there (57,300 ± 1700 BP) agrees very closely with the Z2 layer of volcanic ash found in Atlantic sea cores which is dated 57,500 ± 1300 BP. At 2,808 meters down, their dating was c. 115,000 BP which was in essential agreement with the independent gas-age dating of c. 111,000 BP for that level.15 Although the ice below 2,850 meters may be disturbed, Ram and Koenig continued measuring via LLS both with 1mm and some 0.5 mm steps; and, this yielded an estimated age for the ice at the silty ice boundary of "at least 250,000 BP."
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟106,373.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
e
If there was a global flood which science is not taking into account for dating by yearly layering, then they are way off when it comes to the ice cores.

Oh really? Please elaborate.

You cannot have a yearly layering when there is a cataclysmic upheavel like that in the world.

Exactly, that is why we have annual layers in ice cores, speleothems, varves, lichenometry, and dendrochronology, not to mention many relative dating methods and age equivalence such as oxygen isotope chronostratigraphy, tephchronology, pedogenesis, obsidian hydration, and amino acid geochronology.

And several evolutionist scientists has been cited in proposing that a global flood had occurred.

I certainly don't consider myself as an "evolutionist scientist", however, I do have credentials in earth science and I propose a global flood as well. The origin of both the Gilgamesh and Noahic story's probably have their origin in from the 8.2 ka outburst event, raising global sea levels as much as 2.2 m. There are numerous papers on this, not to mention one of my current research projects.

So this is why fossils record datings would be way off and why they fossil would date more than 6,000 years because the "reservoir effect" cause by the global flood would throw off the fossil dating as well.

I am quite familiar with the reservoir effect, and how it applies to 14C dating. It is true that reservoir dates do require calibration and are not as accurate as non-reservoir dates, but they are well within statistical certainty, not to mention any found discrepancies are reported as such with explanations.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
God is known and has been through all ages and so are the many validations and proofs He performed. To be in delirious denial is not a condition we can cure in this thread I suspect.

You made a claim, all I asked for was evidence. So far you have provided no more evidence for your God than Muslims or Hindus have provided for theirs. Without any evidence whatsoever why should I believe your claims over that of other people?

And are you aware of basic logic? The Null Hypothesis teaches us that without evidence there is no logical reason to believe in anything. Otherwise we will be believing in things as strange as Russell's Magic Teapot.





Strange behavior for a guest on a Christian forum.

Really? Guests normally lie here? I have seen quite a few Christians lie but I have not seen any atheists lie. I guess it makes sense. We don't need to have someone to tell us that it is wrong to lie. We know that for ourselves. I see that Christians have to have it down in writing that lying is wrong and they still tend to do it quite often.

If you posted a fact we could see for ourselves!

No, that is the problem. You can't seem to tell a fact from fantasy.



Speculation, and that denies the similarities to the flood of Noah.

No, not speculation. Deduction. And some of the stories are similar to the flood of Noah and some are not. Different cultures have different myths. The question was why they had similar myths. Since we know from physical evidence that there was no flood then the answer has to lie somewhere else.

Your basis for how fast the population grew is based on the present. Quite weak and silly.

No, quite the other way around. We know the the population both grew and fell in the past. You made the mistake of believing someone who was willing to lie for Jesus. There are quite a few creationists out there, especially the professionals, that are willing to do so. What they did was to take today's population, the population they wanted after the supposed flood. Plug those in to a simple exponential formula figured out what population growth rate they would need to get today's population. The problem is that we know that the population did not grow at that rate. It grew at a much slower rate until very recently when it had a boost due to man's technology.

Your opinion is noted for what is worth, and what God claimed happened is noticed also, for what it is worth!

My opinion is worth more than that of most creationists since I am willing to back mine up with evidence. And once again who is this God, and what is your evidence for him?

You will see that I do not make claims that are not backed up by evidence. Challenge me on anything I say and I will get the evidence for you.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
To believe that the universe came sailing out of a little hot speck too small to even see that appeared for reasons they know not at all is to believe in magic. To believe that animals and mankind itself resulted from worms having sex is to believe in magic.

To accept a real God and a known spiritual is to believe in things somewhat above the paygrade of degraded so called science.

Wrong, if we can observe something happening the same time after time that is not magic. We may not know all of the answers but it is not magic. Magic is what Christians believe in. They believe the universe was brought into existence by a spoken magic spell.

And no, the fact that you had ancestors that looked very similar to the flatworms of today is not magic. Again we not only know how it happened, we can demonstrate the process in the laboratory, in the field, in history, and in our very genes themselves. NOT MAGIC.

Magic is when a being makes man out of dirt, or dust if you prefer. Magic is when the same being makes a woman out of bone. That is magic. We can't observe it. Unlike evolution that we can observe, we cannot repeat it, unlike evolution which we can repeat.

It seems that you have your definition of magic messed up.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
I punched in intelligent design and got 2,100,000 hits. So can we conclude that ID theory also has mountains of evidence?

No, as Rick said you need to look at what sort of articles are cited. Who wrote them and what they are about. You do not need to look at all 2,100,000 of them.

When I did that search on the first page had two articles that seemed to support intelligent design, the other eight were either attacking the concept or using the phrase "intelligent design" to describe something that man had designed intelligently.

At that rate you would lose 4/5 of your articles. And in fact it would be even higher since sooner or later you would run into works that had both the word "intelligent" and "design" somewhere in their description but not necessarily working together.

I did not see any peer reviewed work by ID proponents on that first page.
 
Upvote 0

Tellastory

Hebrews 13:13
Mar 10, 2013
780
43
In God's Hand
✟23,686.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You should probably look up their exact words on the subject and not what the NYTimes says they said - newspaper articles have the tendency to blow things out of proportion when it comes to scientific findings.

Aren't newspapers double checked by fact finders? Do they not get in trouble if they quote someone and it is not what they had said?

The reservoir effect is a problem with carbon dating. For dating methods that don't use carbon, it's not an issue.

The other dating methods are dubious also when not taking in account of the cataclysmic event of a global flood.
 
Upvote 0

Tellastory

Hebrews 13:13
Mar 10, 2013
780
43
In God's Hand
✟23,686.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
We know the layering was consistent. We have way to verify this.

http://www.asa3.org/aSA/PSCF/2003/PSCF12-03Seely.pdf

There are a dozen or so important Greenland ice cores, but the latest and greatest are GRIP (Greenland Ice Project) and GISP2 (Greenland Ice Sheet Project 2), which were extracted at the Summit where the ice rarely melts.

An assumption has been made here and again, without taking all the variables in a cataclysmic event as the global flood would give. They expect normal weather patterns and yet something had caused the Ice Age; and I do believe some other evolutionary scientists had creditted it to the asteroid that killed off the dinosurs; which of course, I believe the global flood did that and the asteroid (s) was just part of the cataclysm.

That's right. Asteroids as in plural. It is an assumption to say that the dating method as to when these other asteroids had hit the earth was done at different times millions of years apart when there is no way anyone can confirm that if they had all occur at the time of the global flood for which the reservoir effect would throw everything off in dating anything.

Anyway, I'd say an assumption was made about the summit where it rarely melts because of this: was not the wooly mammoth found of the frozen Tundra at that same belt region of the summit at Greenland? The same wooly mammoth that had greeneries still in its mouth which testified that it was hit with a sudden freezing event? Greeneries that would suggest a greenhouse temperature type all over the world of that time before it had happened?

Now for a sudden drop in temperatures from that greenhouse one, would there not be a series of rise & fall of temperatures in a chaotic weather pattern within a relatively short period of time before it would settle down in its formation of the ice shelf for that yearly or seasonal rating system that we are observing today?

My point is: without taking in account of the reservoir effect and other factors, known & unknown, of the global flood, no one can really date anything well past that time of the global flood for certainity.

GRIP was dated by counting back annual layers from the surface to c. 14,500 BP (before the present, dated 1950) using electrical conductivity method (ECM, see below) and the rest of the ice core was dated on the basis of flow modeling and chemical techniques. GISP2 was dated by visually counting annual hoar frost layers back to c. 12,000 BP and from 12,000 to 110,000 BP by visually counting annual dust layers.
Back to 12,000 BP, this counting was validated by a very close agreement of three independent methods of counting the annual layers. From 12,000 BP back to 40,000 BP, the counting was validated by a very close agreement of two independent methods of counting the annual layers, and from 40,000 BP back to 110,000 BP by a close agreement of two independent methods. Also, despite the different methods used for dating GRIP and GISP2, there is "excellent agreement" between them (and with deep sea cores as well); so the cores corroborate each other.

The first way we know the top 12,000 layers are annual is because the snow that falls in the summer in Greenland is affected by the sun (which only shines in the summer) in such a way that its crystals become much more coarsegrained than winter snow.

Another way to distinguish the annual layers is to note the dust concentrations. In the late winter/early spring when the wind is stronger than usual, significantly more dust (insoluble matter of various kinds) is carried in the air -- even from the Southern hemisphere and Asia -- and is deposited in the layers of snow in Greenland.

The third way annual layers can be distinguished is via the electrical conductivity of the layers.16 In the spring and summer when the sun is shining, nitric acid is produced in the stratosphere and enters the snow, but this does not happen in the winter.17 The acid in the spring/summer layer enables an electrical current to easily flow through that layer, but the relative lack of acid in the winter layer allows much less electricity to flow through that layer. So, as two electrodes mechanically run down the ice core the readout (mm by mm) of the resultant flows of electricity shows the successive years as a series of peaks (summer) and valleys (winter).

It is to a large extent the correlation and corroborating testimony of these three main methods of counting the annual layers in the GISP2 core which guarantees the validity of the ice core dating.22 The three methods have excellent correlation with each other down to 2500 m, that is, back to c. 57,000 BP.23 In the upper 2300 m (down to c. 40,000 BP) the correspondence of the three methods has been called "remarkable."24

In the lower half of GISP2 (1,678 meters to the bottom) where the dust is more concentrated, Ram and Koenig could scatter the laser light directly off the ice without having to melt it -- and could do this mechanically one mm at a time -- and feed the data directly into a computer. The readout showed the seasonal variations as a series of peaks and valleys. In this way, they were able to date the ice down to 2,849 meters at around 127,600 BP.

At c. 2,464 meters down, their dating of the volcanic ash found there (57,300 ± 1700 BP) agrees very closely with the Z2 layer of volcanic ash found in Atlantic sea cores which is dated 57,500 ± 1300 BP. At 2,808 meters down, their dating was c. 115,000 BP which was in essential agreement with the independent gas-age dating of c. 111,000 BP for that level.15 Although the ice below 2,850 meters may be disturbed, Ram and Koenig continued measuring via LLS both with 1mm and some 0.5 mm steps; and, this yielded an estimated age for the ice at the silty ice boundary of "at least 250,000 BP."

Dust layers with the bottom being volcanic ash.

Here's what happened as I see it by His grace & by His help:

The Bible testified to a mist that watered the whole earth; a global greenhouse.

It rained for the first time at the global flood. Fountains of the deep rose up from the earth.

What could cause that to happen that the Bible left out in detail?

All the asteroids that science had recorded, I would say that it happened at the same time of the global flood. This would cause tectonic plates shift, earthquakes and supervolcanoes ( like the one at Yellowstone ) as well as other volcanoes to erupt. ** That would attribute to your first layer of the ice shelf. **

The crater impacts on the moon would testify to being the cause of it moving slowly away from the earth the way it is. Since the moon controls the rise & fall of tides, then we can see why the mist was condensed into clouds to rain for the first time at the global flood. The impact craters on teh earth & on the moon, the pressure from the moon moving away from the earth and the impact on the earth, could very well attribute to the fountains from the deep rising up to add to the global flood.

Now imagine how long it would take for the dust to settle in an transitional atmosphere with chaotic weather patterns out of all of that as the planet is adjusting from being a global greenhouse to rapid varying changes in temperature in settling down to what we perceive is normal yearly & seasonal weather? Would there not be swift changes in warm & cold weather at the summit in this formation of the ice shelf as the fabled Ice Age was settling in? Would that not effect the assumed yearly or seasonal layering of the ice core? I would have to say yes.

Yeah, I know. There are other dating methods, but again, they are just as dubious when they do not account for the many variables of the global flood. Imagine a global flood and throwing all the fossil records out of whack because the fossilized marine life with fossilized whale bones would be dated older than the fossilized animal life by carbon 14 dating, and yet they were found together in mass graves in the same sediments on top of mountains at various spots around the world.

The reservoir effect would explain why the fossilized marine life would appear older than the fossilized animal life and thus support the idea that both fossils were buried at the same time on those mountains at the time when the global flood receded.

Where did all the water go after the global flood?


Hidden 'Ocean' Discovered Deep Underground Near Earth's Core


Vast ocean lays under Earth mantle, may be wellspring for world's oceans : SCIENCE : Tech Times


Just a side bar note for consideration as to why sincere seekers of the truth should take pause in regards to the evolution theory.
 
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Aren't newspapers double checked by fact finders? Do they not get in trouble if they quote someone and it is not what they had said?



The other dating methods are dubious also when not taking in account of the cataclysmic event of a global flood.

All of these issues make things dated YOUNGER than they actually are, not OLDER
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟106,373.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You made a claim, all I asked for was evidence. So far you have provided no more evidence for your God than Muslims or Hindus have provided for theirs. Without any evidence whatsoever why should I believe your claims over that of other people?

And are you aware of basic logic? The Null Hypothesis teaches us that without evidence there is no logical reason to believe in anything. Otherwise we will be believing in things as strange as Russell's Magic Teapot.







Really? Guests normally lie here? I have seen quite a few Christians lie but I have not seen any atheists lie. I guess it makes sense. We don't need to have someone to tell us that it is wrong to lie. We know that for ourselves. I see that Christians have to have it down in writing that lying is wrong and they still tend to do it quite often.



No, that is the problem. You can't seem to tell a fact from fantasy.





No, not speculation. Deduction. And some of the stories are similar to the flood of Noah and some are not. Different cultures have different myths. The question was why they had similar myths. Since we know from physical evidence that there was no flood then the answer has to lie somewhere else.



No, quite the other way around. We know the the population both grew and fell in the past. You made the mistake of believing someone who was willing to lie for Jesus. There are quite a few creationists out there, especially the professionals, that are willing to do so. What they did was to take today's population, the population they wanted after the supposed flood. Plug those in to a simple exponential formula figured out what population growth rate they would need to get today's population. The problem is that we know that the population did not grow at that rate. It grew at a much slower rate until very recently when it had a boost due to man's technology.



My opinion is worth more than that of most creationists since I am willing to back mine up with evidence. And once again who is this God, and what is your evidence for him?

You will see that I do not make claims that are not backed up by evidence. Challenge me on anything I say and I will get the evidence for you.

Why would I respond to blather especially when you call me a liar? Don't cut yourself on the rocks now.
 
Upvote 0