A Question Rgarding Embedded Age

[PsychoSarah]

Yeah I know. A version of the "why are there still monkeys" argument. But that is all I will say about that. Biology is not my area of interest, even though I am certified to teach it. Is it yours?

My counter to that argument is basically, who ever said the "parent species" had to go extinct to give rise to a new one?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So will the honorable poster admit, then, that these 'flatworms' that you say look quite a bit like them that are the ancestors in your belief system, had sex? Would you further admit that the resut of this reproduction was you?

I mean the article called the ancestor flatworms. If you have another name for these flatworms, we can use that! Tomato--tomatoe.

The fossil record of soft bodied creatures is minimal.

"Platyhelminthes classes as well as the phylum may be paraphyletic. Fossil records of Platyhelminthes are minimal."

http://science.kennesaw.edu/~jdirnber/InvertZoo/LecPlatyhel/Platyhel.html

You may not be in a position to know if there were varieties of flatworms living back in the day when Granny Flatworm and Grandpa Flatworm we busy making you!! (in your religion)

I submit that believing animals and man came about as a result of sex between creatures like these is an affront to intelligence and dignity.

Why do you find that so disturbing.? All you have given is an argument from ignorance. Yes, our perhaps billion year ancestors may have looked very much like modern flatworms. Remember we have evidence that supports our beliefs and all you have is a book written by uneducated shepherds.

 

[dad]

Well, the overall structure if flatworms hasn't changed a whole lot, but species just don't continue unchanged for hundreds of millions of years enough to be the same before and after.

You have no way of knowing how or if the varieties of flatworms that lived in Noah's day changed a lot or not! You point seems to be 'gee if there were millions of imaginary years, things golly gee must have changed a lot'

Even coelacanths, while very much resembling very old fossils, are not the same species.

So? I could find monkeys or tigers in different places now that are not the same species!!!!

 

[dad]

Yeah I know. A version of the "why are there still monkeys" argument.

Why should there NOT be monkeys or flatworms??

Forget that 'area of expertise' business also. There IS NO area of expertise in science that involves more than the present state fishbowl!

 

[dad]

Why do you find that so disturbing.?

I find it pathetic that people can be so deluded as to think that mankind was not a creation of the Almighty, but something so absurd as flatworms having sex.

All you have given is an argument from ignorance.

False, nothing supports your flatworm to man religion.

Yes, our perhaps billion year ancestors may have looked very much like modern flatworms.

So you don't know. We get that! But hey, it was a good excuse to throw in some reference to 'billion year' belief. Such a strange fanatical cult are those so called science pulpit pounders.

Remember we have evidence that supports our beliefs

Evidence that flatworms having sex resulted in mankind!!!?? Do not pretend here. You don't even know what the flatworms looked like!!! Pathetic.

and all you have is a book written by uneducated shepherds.

I understand that a part of the modern education system programming includes an automatic reaction and response to badmouth the bible. What we can observe from the educated here and elsewhere is an automatic reflex response that displays a distinct dark, desperate, and deliberate, deep delirious denial.


Many of the words of the New Testament came down from Christ. He was the Good Shepherd, and had all the wisdom of God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I find it pathetic that people can be so deluded as to think that mankind was not a creation of the Almighty, but something so absurd as flatworms having sex. False, nothing supports your flatworm to man religion.

<sigh> Another creationist that does not know what counts as evidence. dad, if you promise to behave I will gladly teach you what is and what is not scientific evidence. The fact is that we have evidence and you don't. That is why your side always loses legal battles. Legal battles are based upon evidence.

So you don't know. We get that! But hey, it was a good excuse to throw in some reference to 'billion year' belief. Such a strange fanatical cult are those so called science pulpit pounders.

No, we have a limited knowledge. There is a big difference between limited knowledge, which is what we have, and no knowledge at all, which is what you have. Once again, you need to learn what is and what is not evidence.

Evidence that flatworms having sex resulted in mankind!!!?? Do not pretend here. You don't even know what the flatworms looked like!!! Pathetic.

I am not pretending. Since the demonstrable facts are on my side I have no reason to lie or pretend. That is solely a creationist attribute.

I understand that a part of the modern education system programming includes an automatic reaction and response to badmouth the bible. What we can observe from the educated here and elsewhere is an automatic reflex response that displays a distinct dark, desperate, and deliberate, deep delirious denial.

Really? I was never taught to "dadmouth the Bible". The fact that certain parts of the Bible are false is not badmouthing it. It is simply an observed fact. Is pointing out that the ancient Vikings had a Norse mythology badmouthing Thor? I don't think so.

Many of the words of the New Testament came down from Christ. He was the Good Shepherd, and had all the wisdom of God.

Perhaps they do, and probably many things that he said did not come from him. But we are not discussing the reality of the New Testament here. That is sadly not allowed on this forum. And just because something is not allowed here does not make your side right. We are trying to discuss evolution. Even if Jesus was real that by no means tells us that evolution is false. Remember worldwide most Christians accept the theory of evolution. They may not be your sort of Christian, but they would be this forums kind of Christian. You are no more in a position to say who is or is not a real Christian than I am.

 

[RickG]

There IS NO area of expertise in science that involves more than the present state fishbowl!

In other words you are just flopping around.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why should there NOT be monkeys or flatworms??

Forget that 'area of expertise' business also. There IS NO area of expertise in science that involves more than the present state fishbowl!

Yet your very life depends upon this "fishbowl". Aren't you being a bit of a hypocrite by using the science that you deny?

 

[PsychoSarah]

You have no way of knowing how or if the varieties of flatworms that lived in Noah's day changed a lot or not! You point seems to be 'gee if there were millions of imaginary years, things golly gee must have changed a lot'


So? I could find monkeys or tigers in different places now that are not the same species!!!!

No, we do have some fossils of past life forms you know, I can look at them and see the difference.

Not understanding exactly what incited this second comment.

 

[dad]

In other words you are just flopping around.

No, I am spearing the claims of so called science on creation so they can't flop around...just flop period.

 

[dad]

Yet your very life depends upon this "fishbowl". Aren't you being a bit of a hypocrite by using the science that you deny?

My parents were not flatworms. What a theory!!!

 

[dad]

No, we do have some fossils of past life forms you know, I can look at them and see the difference.

Not understanding exactly what incited this second comment.

Show us a fossil of the flatworm that the article claimed was the oldest living ancestor to man???

Behold the theory, lurkers!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are for real in believing this stuff.


Now what could be behind the inspiration that man came from some belly crawler??


Ge 3:14 -The Lord God said to the serpent,"Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
Behold the inspiration!

 

[Subduction Zone]

My parents were not flatworms. What a theory!!!

If we go back enough generations they were.

You can deny the fact all that you want, it will still be true.

Remember dad the evidence is on our side. The same evidence that makes your life as you live possible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Show us a fossil of the flatworm that the article claimed was the oldest living ancestor to man???

Behold the theory, lurkers!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are for real in believing this stuff.


Now what could be behind the inspiration that man came from some belly crawler??


Ge 3:14 -The Lord God said to the serpent,"Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
Behold the inspiration!

There are countless fossils in between. What good would one fossil do for you? We could show you that of Tiktallik. Would that convince you?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Show us a fossil of the flatworm that the article claimed was the oldest living ancestor to man???

Behold the theory, lurkers!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are for real in believing this stuff.


Now what could be behind the inspiration that man came from some belly crawler??


Ge 3:14 -The Lord God said to the serpent,"Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
Behold the inspiration!

dad, how the heck would I be able to tell exactly which flatworm was the one we last shared ancestry with? The only way to pin point which exact one that was with that kind of accuracy is if we had the DNA of both humans and all the possible flatworms at that time. With only human and modern flatworm DNA, the best we can do is tell it was flatworms. That particular flatworm which we last shared ancestry with might not have even left behind fossils.

 

[dad]

If we go back enough generations they were.
...

I take it you admit having descended from flatworms then. God disagree with you.

 

[dad]

There are countless fossils in between. What good would one fossil do for you? We could show you that of Tiktallik. Would that convince you?

That would convince me that back in the time and different nature when a lot of the things that could fossilize did so, the creature you call Tiktalik was among them. It sure doesn't convince me flatworms having sex resulted in mankind!

 

[dad]

dad, how the heck would I be able to tell exactly which flatworm was the one we last shared ancestry with?

Exactly! You have no clue yest you believe! Not by evidence or by sight, but by faith alone.

The only way to pin point which exact one that was with that kind of accuracy is if we had the DNA of both humans and all the possible flatworms at that time.

So never then. No possible way. We get it. By pure faith alone. Flatwomsexdunnit.

With only human and modern flatworm DNA, the best we can do is tell it was flatworms.

No. That can't tell you man was a product of worms. That is religion misusing DNA.

That particular flatworm which we last shared ancestry with might not have even left behind fossils.

No proof whatsoever then. OK. Hallelujah.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That would convince me that back in the time and different nature when a lot of the things that could fossilize did so, the creature you call Tiktalik was among them. It sure doesn't convince me flatworms having sex resulted in mankind!

Yes, but that is your problem not mine. If you want to dispute the settled facts then you need to do some work of your own. Your blind statements about "things were different when I was a lad" won't convince anyone.

In debates whether or not you can find evidence that supports you is what determines if you are defeated or not. It does not matter if you never admit defeat.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It isn't a lack of proof, what you are asking for is the equivalent of me expecting you to show me the graves of Adam and Eve.