A question of the direction from God

[pshun2404]

Not trying to burst in where not invited but I asked this question on other threads and no one answers so I guess this is the right place. The question is...

Can you provide for me scriptures (even a scripture) from the Old Testament where God commands us to gather together for corporate worship on the 7th day Sabbath? Where He actually tells (even Israel) that this is the day they should gather as a Congregation?

I know He calls the Israelites to gather together for Corporate worship on some of the High Holy Sabbaths (the appointments or feasts) but I cannot find one scripture that says this is the appropriate day we are to gather together for corporate worship...

Now I know Jesus and the Apostles did this as was their "custom" (a tradition started in the Babylonian Captivity)...but where is the command or instruction from God for us to gather together for corporate worship? I cannot find a single one...

In His love

Paul

 

[maco]

Not trying to burst in where not invited but I asked this question on other threads and no one answers so I guess this is the right place. The question is...

Can you provide for me scriptures (even a scripture) from the Old Testament where God commands us to gather together for corporate worship on the 7th day Sabbath? Where He actually tells (even Israel) that this is the day they should gather as a Congregation?

I know He calls the Israelites to gather together for Corporate worship on some of the High Holy Sabbaths (the appointments or feasts) but I cannot find one scripture that says this is the appropriate day we are to gather together for corporate worship...

Now I know Jesus and the Apostles did this as was their "custom" (a tradition started in the Babylonian Captivity)...but where is the command or instruction from God for us to gather together for corporate worship? I cannot find a single one...

In His love

Paul

Leviticus 23:3 You have six days in which to do your work, but remember that the seventh day, the Sabbath, is a day of rest. On that day do not work, but gather for worship. The Sabbath belongs to the Lord, no matter where you live.

 

[pshun2404]

Leviticus 23:3 You have six days in which to do your work, but remember that the seventh day, the Sabbath, is a day of rest. On that day do not work, but gather for worship. The Sabbath belongs to the Lord, no matter where you live.

Oh I wholley agree the Sabbath belongs to God, but this response (and I thank you even for giving one) did not answer my question? Leviticus 23:3 does not say we are to go out from our dwellings and attend a corporate service somewhere like at the Tabernacle or in a synagogue type place (in fact it does not say "where you live" it says in your dwellings which is quite different)...it is thus a day of Holy convocation IN ALL OUR DWELLINGS...convocate (mi'kra...a gathering, a calling together, a reading) in each persons dwelling...it is right there in the grammar...

This seems to be further confirmed in Exodus 16:29 when we are told "...the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. The Septuagint translation says "...ye shall sit each of you in your house; let no one go forth from his place on the seventh day."

"in his place" and "let no man go out of his place" (also translated dwelling)

So these support exactly what I found...so how about something to show we are to actually leave our dwellings and gather together somewhere (you know like at the Tabernacle, or in a Synagogue type of place) for "corporate worship" (you know like everyone leaving their dwellings and getting together?)? I cannot find one...

In His love

Paul

 

[maco]

Oh I wholley agree the Sabbath belongs to God, but this response (and I thank you even for giving one) did not answer my question? Leviticus 23:3 does not say we are to go out from our dwellings and attend a corporate service somewhere like at the Tabernacle or in a synagogue type place (in fact it does not say "where you live" it says in your dwellings which is quite different)...it is thus a day of Holy convocation IN ALL OUR DWELLINGS...convocate (mi'kra...a gathering, a calling together, a reading) in each persons dwelling...it is right there in the grammar...

This seems to be further confirmed in Exodus 16:29 when we are told "...the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. The Septuagint translation says "...ye shall sit each of you in your house; let no one go forth from his place on the seventh day."

"in his place" and "let no man go out of his place" (also translated dwelling)

So these support exactly what I found...so how about something to show we are to actually leave our dwellings and gather together somewhere (you know like at the Tabernacle, or in a Synagogue type of place) for "corporate worship" (you know like everyone leaving their dwellings and getting together?)? I cannot find one...

In His love

Paul

Hi Paul,

The definition of the word, convocation is, "A large formal assembly of people". A holy convocation is a sacred assembly. Now this does not mean you have to attend a building ie: church building, but it is an assembly of people for worship. It can be done at home or a hall or even a field. The building is more a luxury to keep from the elements. We see this all through the Bible both old and new testament. Listen.

(Acts 13:44) -On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

At one point they even gathered by a riverside to have Sabbath fellowship.

Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

We even have Paul, before his conversion, going from Synagogue to Synagogue on the Sabbath pulling Christians out of church to beat them for believing in Jesus.

Acts 22:17-19 “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance and saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.’ So I said, ‘Lord, they know that in every Synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believe on You.

The Sabbath day is a time of blessings and joy, this is the way God created it. It's a time to enjoy fellowship and growing together as God's family this is the reason He tells us to take the day off from our secular jobs to celebrate it. God did not intend the Sabbath to be burden or to be kept in such a ritualistic way that everything we do on the Sabbath becomes a sin. It was Satan in the beginning who made the ways of God seem wrong and unpleasant by misinterpreting what God has said, are we doing the same today?

For example, some people will use Exodus 16:29 to say that we are not allowed to leave our homes on the Sabbath. This would certainly remove much of the joy of Sabbath keeping for the people of God. But if someone would take the time to read the context of what is being said they would soon learn that it's not a sin to leave your home on the Sabbath. Listen to the verse that people use to support not leaving your home on the Sabbath.

(Exodus 16:29) - Take note! The LORD has given you the Sabbath. That is why on the sixth day he gives you food for two days. On the seventh day everyone is to stay home and no one is to go out."

To read this verse by itself it would seem to be saying that it's a sin to leave your home on the Sabbath. But this is not true, even Jesus and His Apostles went outside on the Sabbath. It's not until you read the verse in its context that you find the truth.

So what is the verse really saying? The context tells us that Moses commanded them to stay in on the seventh day out of frustration for their lack of belief which would have led to obedience. Moses was not teaching us that going outside on the Sabbath was forbidden, even though some people say that’s what he meant. Let's read it in its context.

(Exodus 16:25-29) - Then Moses said, "Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field." Six days you shall gather the bread, but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, there will be none.'' Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? "See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.''

Did you notice how the people went outside on the seventh day to look for bread after they were told not to. So out of frustration, because of their lack of faith and disobedience, Moses tells them not to go out to look for bread on the seventh day, not that it's a sin to leave your home on the Sabbath.

Another verse that is used to take away the joy of the Sabbath is found in Exodus 16:13. People say that this verse is teaching us that cooking on the Sabbath is a sin.

(Exodus 16:23) - Moses said to them, "This is what the Lord has commanded: "Tomorrow is a day of solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord; bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning."

When read out of context you can make it say it's a sin to cook on the Sabbath but when it's read in context you will find that it's not saying that it's a sin to cook on the Sabbath.

In the context of Exodus 16:23 Moses is telling them that the bread they gathered throughout the past six days was not to be left overnight, but rather, they were to eat it all on the day they gathered it or else it would be full of maggots in the morning. The people didn't listen to Moses so they saved some of the manna for the next day and it became full of maggots and stank. Once again Moses was angry. Listen.

(Exodus 16:19-20) - Then Moses told them, “Do not keep any of it until morning.” But some of them didn’t listen and kept some of it until morning. But by then it was full of maggots and had a terrible smell. Moses was very angry with them.

Now it's the sixth day and Moses tells them that it's now okay to save some manna overnight because on the morning of the seventh day it would not be full of maggots. Now listen carefully. Moses tells them to boil or cook however much they wanted to eat out of what they gathered on the sixth day and then keep the rest for the seventh day. He's not saying it's a sin to cook the rest of the manna on the seventh day, he is just telling them to save the uncooked portion for the seventh day. Moses is telling them it's okay to save the uncooked manna overnight and it wouldn't be full of maggots in the morning. Now catch this, since they didn't cook it the night before they would have to cook it on the Sabbath. Let's read it in its context.

(Exodus 16:19-23) - And Moses told them, "Don't leave it overnight.'' But of course some of them wouldn't listen, and left it until morning; and when they looked, it was full of maggots and had a terrible odor; and Moses was very angry with them. So they gathered the food morning by morning, each home according to its need; and when the sun became hot upon the ground, the food melted and disappeared. On the sixth day there was twice as much as usual on the ground--four quarts instead of two; the leaders of the people came and asked Moses why this had happened.'' "This is what the Lord has commanded: "Tomorrow is a day of solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord; bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning."

Did you catch what Moses said? He told them to bake or boil what they wanted to bake or boil and then save the rest of the uncooked manna for the Sabbath. This means that the uncooked portion would have to be cooked on the Sabbath. Moses did not tell them not to cook the saved manna on the Sabbath nor did he say it was a sin to cook on the Sabbath. This is what people are being taught it says so they themselves are also reading into the text that it’s a sin to cook on the Sabbath.

So you see, Moses was not teaching us that it's a sin leave our house on the Sabbath nor was he teaching us that it’s a sin to cook on the Sabbath. We know it's not a sin to cook on the Sabbath because the Passover lamb was to be roasted and eaten on the Sabbath and meals are prepared on the sabbath days as well.

(Exodus 12:8) - "Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it."

(Exodus 12:16) - On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat—that is all you may do.

Let us not aid Satan in destroying the Sabbath blessing by wrongfully interpreting the word of God. The Sabbath is a holy day to be enjoyed and celebrated.

(Nehemiah 8:10) - Nehemiah said, “Go and enjoy choice food and sweet drinks, and send some to those who have nothing prepared. This day is holy to our Lord. Do not grieve, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”

 

[pshun2404]

Yes you are correct Maco that AFTER the Babylonian Captivity this was their tradition but you are incorrect when you define Convocation when you add "large" and "formal" neither of these is necessary as it can be small and informal... you added these adjectives (or someone else) to try and imply something not being said...that's eisegesis not exegesis...and also I was looking for a command or direct instruction from God in the OT that this is the appropriate fashion to observe, not that Israel was covenanted to observe, or that keeping the Sabbath is commanded...

The fact is I have looked and looked and God does not tell us this is the day we are supposed to go to church, and He never commands His people to do this. I said we know He commands this for the High Holy Sabbaths (Passover, First fruits, Shavuot or Pentecost, etc.), but not for the 7th day Sabbath.

Paul

 

[maco]

Yes you are correct Maco that AFTER the Babylonian Captivity this was their tradition but you are incorrect when you define Convocation when you add "large" and "formal" neither of these is necessary as it can be small and informal... you added these adjectives (or someone else) to try and imply something not being said...that's eisegesis not exegesis...and also I was looking for a command or direct instruction from God in the OT that this is the appropriate fashion to observe, not that Israel was covenanted to observe, or that keeping the Sabbath is commanded...

The fact is I have looked and looked and God does not tell us this is the day we are supposed to go to church, and He never commands His people to do this. I said we know He commands this for the High Holy Sabbaths (Passover, First fruits, Shavuot or Pentecost, etc.), but not for the 7th day Sabbath.

Paul

Here is the word in the original language.

H4744 מִקרָא miqra' (mik-raw') n-m.
1. something called out, i.e. a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the place)
2. also a rehearsal
[from H7121]
KJV: assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
Root(s): H7121

Here is the English definition.

TheFreeDictionary
convocation [ˌkɒnvəˈkeɪʃən]n1. a large formal assembly, esp one specifically convened
2. the act of convoking or state of being convoked
3. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) Church of England either of the synods of the provinces of Canterbury or York
4. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) Episcopal Churcha. an assembly of the clergy and part of the laity of a diocese
b. a district represented at such an assembly

5. (Social Science / Education) (sometimes capital) (in some British universities) a legislative assembly composed mainly of graduates
6. (Social Science / Education) (in India) a degree-awarding ceremony
7. (Social Science / Education) (in Australia and New Zealand) the graduate membership of a university

Here is the minimum requirement for a holy convocation, according to Jesus.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.

This can be done at home, in a building or in a field but either way it should not be forsaken.

Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

You can gather seven days a week if you like but the Sabbath is a good day for sacred assembly since it was blessed and called holy by God Himself.

Here are a few different translations.

Leviticus 23:3 (NIRV) “‘There are six days when you can work. But the seventh day is a Sabbath. You must rest on it. Come together on that sacred day. You must not do any work on it. No matter where you live, it is a Sabbath day in my honor.

Leviticus 23:3 (NIV) The Sabbath “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.

Leviticus 23:3 (NIVUK) The Sabbath ‘“There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.

Leviticus 23:3 (NLT) “You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of complete rest, an official day for holy assembly. It is the Lord’s Sabbath day, and it must be observed wherever you live.

Leviticus 23:3 (VOICE) You have six days to do your ordinary work; but when the seventh day arrives, it is a Sabbath and must be a day of complete rest, a time for sacred assembly. No work is allowed. Wherever you live, celebrate the Sabbath in My honor.

Leviticus 23:3 (NRSVACE) For six days shall work be done; but the seventh day is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no work: it is a sabbath to the Lord throughout your settlements.

 

[pshun2404]

Both the Septuagint and the pre-JPS Masoretic translate this as saying...it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings, "all your dwellings" (plural) not a general settlement or in one particular place. My Strong's has

Miqra

1) convocation, convoking, reading, a calling together
a) convocation, sacred assembly
b) convoking
c) reading

Again, none of these supports the insistence that this is the day we are to go to church.

Also Brown, Drivers, and Briggs Hebrew Lexicon has convocation = convoking, reading, a calling together, convocation, sacred assembly, none of which commands us this the appropriate day we are required to observe our corporate worship in a tabernacle/synagogue/church building...therefore it is not "the right day" being replaced is it. Congregational worship can be any day (though we should observe the Sabbath whatever day we have church, if part of the covenant of Israel).

Paul

 

[maco]

Both the Septuagint and the pre-JPS Masoretic translate this as saying...it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings, "all your dwellings" (plural) not a general settlement or in one particular place. My Strong's has

Miqra

1) convocation, convoking, reading, a calling together
a) convocation, sacred assembly
b) convoking
c) reading

Again, none of these supports the insistence that this is the day we are to go to church.

Also Brown, Drivers, and Briggs Hebrew Lexicon has convocation = convoking, reading, a calling together, convocation, sacred assembly, none of which commands us this the appropriate day we are required to observe our corporate worship in a tabernacle/synagogue/church building...therefore it is not "the right day" being replaced is it. Congregational worship can be any day (though we should observe the Sabbath whatever day we have church, if part of the covenant of Israel).

Paul

You don't go to church, you are the church.

1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

1 Peter 2:4-6 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”


And the Sabbath is a time for the church to gather together wherever you live.

Leviticus 23:3 The Sabbath “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.

Just in the book of Acts alone the church gathered together every Sabbath more than 80 times. At one point almost the whole city gathered together on the Sabbath to hear the word of God.

God blessed the seventh day and called it holy. He tells His people to assemble together on the Sabbath for worship. Now lets say you believe Sunday is a better day but Johnny feels that Tuesday would be better but Sally believes Thursday is much better. Now the preacher shows up on Sabbath to preach but no one is there.

Even in the millennium God's people will gather together to worship God.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

 

[pshun2404]

Thanks for letting me inquire and thanks for the responses. I will lay back as I am not a traditional Adventist and do not belong here as defined by the group discussing but I thought I would ask and sadly have still not found where it is THE day we should as opposed to any other according to the Lord's own instructions. Be blessed.

In His love

Paul

 

[maco]

Thanks for letting me inquire and thanks for the responses. I will lay back as I am not a traditional Adventist and do not belong here as defined by the group discussing but I thought I would ask and sadly have still not found where it is THE day we should as opposed to any other according to the Lord's own instructions. Be blessed.

In His love

Paul

I wouldn't go that far as to say the Lord's own instruction. Jesus didn't say not to gather on the Sabbath. If you walk as Jesus walked and Paul walked and the early church walked you will find yourself gathering every Sabbath.

 

[pshun2404]

Fair enough maco...the Lord bless you.

Paul

 

[Castaway57]

Both the Septuagint and the pre-JPS Masoretic translate this as saying...it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings, "all your dwellings" (plural) not a general settlement or in one particular place. My Strong's has

Miqra

1) convocation, convoking, reading, a calling together
a) convocation, sacred assembly
b) convoking
c) reading

Again, none of these supports the insistence that this is the day we are to go to church.

Also Brown, Drivers, and Briggs Hebrew Lexicon has convocation = convoking, reading, a calling together, convocation, sacred assembly, none of which commands us this the appropriate day we are required to observe our corporate worship in a tabernacle/synagogue/church building...therefore it is not "the right day" being replaced is it. Congregational worship can be any day (though we should observe the Sabbath whatever day we have church, if part of the covenant of Israel).

Paul

I think it is important to consider another Bible fact re the church here. Regarding Rom 16:5 Albert Barnes' commentary puts it like this:

"The church that is in their house - Aquila and Priscilla are mentioned Act_18:26 as having received “Apollos” into their family, to instruct him more perfectly. The church in their house is also mentioned 1Co_16:19. This may mean either the church that was accustomed to assemble for worship at their hospitable mansion; or it may mean their own family with their guests, regarded as a “church.” In those times Christians had no houses erected for public worship, and were therefore compelled to meet in their private dwellings.

The "church" commonly met in houses, as well as in the Temple/Church:

Rom_16:5 Greet also the church in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in Asia.
1Co_16:19 The churches of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord.
Col_4:15 Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.
Phm_1:2 and Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier, and the church in your house:

It is wonderful to know that God knows how to meet our need for corporate worship, no matter what our circumstance.