A question for the non-denominational group

[Im_A]

Now before i get on my questions here, i don't want to come off as offending, attacking or anything to that matter. these are just questions.

i myself once considered myself non-denominational. my faith started in the pentecostal church, and now, i just feel that i personally grew out of that. not meaning to say that other people that are pentecostal/non-denominational are immature, i'm just saying for myself it was just a starting point for me and that is all.

i just dont' understand the non-denominational thing anymore. to me, it almost seems like a seperation from the other members of the church. i mean with me growing up, i just got tired of seeing theology differences seperate from my other brothers and sisters in the faith and to me, that's all i see anymore.

now i'm not at conclusions with this or anything, this is just from what i've seen, experienced in my own life. sometimes i wonder/hope that the next step from non-deminationalism is trans-denominationalism. meaning, just people from all types of denominations come to worship, and then maybe they go to their normal church on other days and so on forth.

so with all this in my mind, i want to ask why non-denominational? is it because of different personality types? is it because of a bad thing that happened when you were of another denomination? or was it just problems with doctrine?

i'm not trying to say i'm too much different, because most people would probably say i am non-denominational without fully asking me. but in the end, i am more trans-denominational, because i love the denominations of people on their own path in Christ and searching for God. now there are some denominations that i really don't know a thing about, and would like conversations with some of them, to talk to them about their denomination and then see scripture. for example take the LDS, of JW. i've heard of people that don't believe they are right at all theories, but i want to see how they see scripture. i'm not saying it could be right, but i just want to see how they think and why. which is why i'm asking non-denominationals this stuff. it's stuff i don't understand. and it's hard for me to understand because i used to be "non-denominational", and i still don't get it.

sorry for a long tangent here, but it's just something i'd like to get feedback on from those that are non-denominational.

i hope you all take this in the way i hope it is taken. just questions in love about the non-denominational phenonmenon. May God Bless you all! <><

 

[SoulFly51]

Hi.

i just dont' understand the non-denominational thing anymore. to me, it almost seems like a seperation from the other members of the church. i mean with me growing up, i just got tired of seeing theology differences seperate from my other brothers and sisters in the faith and to me, that's all i see anymore.

True - denominations have caused separation.

now i'm not at conclusions with this or anything, this is just from what i've seen, experienced in my own life. sometimes i wonder/hope that the next step from non-deminationalism is trans-denominationalism. meaning, just people from all types of denominations come to worship, and then maybe they go to their normal church on other days and so on forth.

Interesting. That is actually how the church of Christ group formed. They are non-denominational and that is the "group" I am apart of.

so with all this in my mind, i want to ask why non-denominational?

Because there weren't denominations in the Bible. All the believers were together and had everything in common - that is the way it should be today but it isn't because of the teachings of man which led to denominations.

is it because of a bad thing that happened when you were of another denomination?

Not for me - I have always been non-denominational.

or was it just problems with doctrine?

People having problems with doctrine = denominations. Thats where they came from. They came from men either misinterpretting, adding or taking away from the Scripture. I believe that over the years many men have taught things that are wrong for their own personal glory and to make a name for themselves instead of for God's.

now there are some denominations that i really don't know a thing about, and would like conversations with some of them, to talk to them about their denomination and then see scripture. for example take the LDS, of JW. i've heard of people that don't believe they are right at all theories, but i want to see how they see scripture.

Hmm - alright. I don't know much about the Jehovah's Witnesses but I will tell you what I do know. I know that they do not believe in the diety of Jesus (they believe Jesus isn't really God), and I know that they do not believe in utilizing modern day medicines and medical facilities. If a Jehovah's witness child is dying of cancer, they will simply let them die. I know this from working for the Childrens Cancer Association and when I approached an older JW woman that is what she told me - "Let the child die."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints otherwise known as the Mormon church is something I know quite a bit about and have done a good deal of studying about. Stay away from them - do not speak to them if they approach you.

I do not have the time to tell you everything I know about them, but I will tell you a few things and if you want to know more send me a PM about it and I will help you.

I will give you a quick rundown of just a few things they believe - keep in mind that many Mormons do not know everything about their church's actual doctrine because their most far out beliefs are hidden from new members at first and slowly revealed to them over time so as to not scare them off. First of all - they claim to believe in Jesus and they claim that Jesus is the Son of God. Secondly, they would tell you that they believe the Bible is the Word of God. Thirdly, they will tell you that there have been prophets among us since the 1800s - namely the false prophet Joseph Smith who is the founder of the Mormon Church.

Here are some quick facts:

-History tells us that Joseph Smith was a polygamist (had multiple wives) and was involved in occultic practices such as occult magic.
-The LDC Church claims to be the only true church on the face of the planet and all other churches and denominations are wrong.
-Many, many Mormon droctrines have changed over time (much like the Catholics)
-The more sinister and controversial aspects of Mormon culture is not known by the average Mormon (because it is hidden from them)
-Mormonism does not believe God is the sole creator.
-Mormonism believes the God of this world was once a man.
-Mormonism teaches an infinite number of Gods
-Mormonism teaches that human beings can become gods.
-Mormonism teaches that God is married.
-Mormonism teaches that God had sex with his god-wife in heaven and that is how our spirits were born.
-Mormonism teaches that Jesus was the first "spirit child" of God and his god-wife making Jesus the oldest of his "spirit children".
-Mormons do not believe in the emmaculate conception of Jesus through Mary. Mormons maintain that Jesus was the literal offspring of a physical union (implying sexual contact) between the God of heaven and Mary.
-The word gospel for the Mormon means the laws and ordinances of Mormonism, not the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ.
-Mormons believe that our salvation is something that has to be earned through works.
-Mormons today regard the King James version of the Bible as authentic Scripture, but they have traditionally denied its authenticity. Joseph Smith wrote a revised addition which changed many things in the KJV version of the Bible.
-Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon which is revered as another infallible testament of Jesus Christ by the Mormons. There have been over 4000 changes to the Book of Mormon since it was originally written in 1830s and most of the historical events of the book of Mormon have been disproven by science and archaology over the years and have been proven completely false. The historical events of the true Bible have been proven over the years and are completely true.
-Mormons believe that there are three different levels of Heaven and one level of Hell. They believe the only souls that will go to hell are the souls of the people in the Christian churches who do not convert to Mormonism - everyone else will go to one of the three levels of Heaven (even non-mormons and non-Christians and those who do not believe in God or who worship another god).


Hope this helps. Stay away from them for real ... and let me know if you have any questions. I'll answer as best I can.





-Wes

 

[Beowulf]

Hi tattedsaint,

I've been non-denominational since I was saved 8 years ago. I have no real problem with denominations except I'm not one to lean either this way or that putting emphasis on any one doctrine of the bible. I feel denominations may have their specific purpose in the army of God like archers, footman, horseman etc like in the armies of old but I just haven't been called to any particular function.

Wes hit the nail on the head with the mormons though. I'm in Salt Lake City, their mecca. It's all deception. Biblical terms have a different meaning to them. All the while you're speaking solid biblical doctrine their heads will be bobbing up and down in total agreement. Thing is the meanings of the words convey a whole nuther message to them. Before you know it they'll have you so twisted around you won't know if you're coming or going. And they won't stay on one topic which is really frustrating. They're here then there then everywhere at once, very slippery. And if you do manage to make sense of anything they'll either play the persecution card or tell you they don't have the authority to discuss it further. Best thing to do is tell them what you have, the love of Christ, freedom in Him and assurance you'll BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE FATHER. That's important, for by their doctrine everyone goes to heaven. Just depends on what level.
If you've not studied on their doctrines it's best to do as Wes said, just stay away from them.

 

[JVD]

take the LDS, of JW

LDS and JW are not denominations. They are cults.

The difference comes down to what they teach about Jesus Christ. All Christian denominations believe Jesus Christ is God. These do not.

I am curious about the OP...did you start out in a pentecostal church and then move to a mainline denomination? What are you now?

I am non-denominational. But, I am not on who is down on denominations. I can feel at home in quite a few different denominations, recognizing that I likely don't agree with all their doctrine, and they don't agree with mine, but we are all following the same Lord.

Just like there are people in denominational churches that aren't christians, there are the same type of people in my non-denom church. And...there are christians in both.

However, a person cannot be a christian and follow the doctrine of JWs and LDS. I do believe there are some baby christians in both of those cults that do not know what the cult actually teaches, but they best get out....

 

[Beowulf]

Thing is, getting out of the LDS church is a very rough experience, loss of family, friends, possibly your job... The majority of mormons were born here, their grandfather's fathers being from Utah.
It's sad really. Many coming out of the LDS church will not embrace anything religious at all after that experience.

 

[Encounter]

I goto Riverview which is an independant non-denominational church... it's not a separation from different denominations but rather the opposite... our pastor Phillip Baker, grew up in many different churches and didn't like the way Church's were always fighting and battling one-another... so he initiated church together which is one Sunday night in Perth a year all the church who are registered (over 140) close their doors and join together for one huge service in the Burswood ome for that night. At Riverview many people fomr mnay denominations come and visit or join (including mormons). Although it is a large church with modern worship we're generally "flaky or weird" as non-christian would put it. But i guess we would lean toward Charismatic theology however we are not part of a denomination so we're flexible in minor doctrine but we remain doctrinally pure. we are also part of Australian Christian Churches "ACC" which is an allience (not denomination) of contemproray christian churches, of which Phil Baker is the President.

 

[Highland Watchman]

I already gave my answer on another thread...

http://www.christianforums.com/t964873


Although, in the context of JW's and LDS, I have not heard. Some very informative posts, peoples! I also find it entertaining how similar the JW's are to the Arians of the 3rd Century, who believed a lot of the same thing... which was why the Nicene Creed was written. Also, the LDS reminds me of the Marcionists in ways, who were around in the 2nd Century. Many of the cults of today are very similar to those that existed in the past... All the more reason why history is important...

 

[plmarquette]

Non denominationalism : "the net " to catch all the denominational people who fall away due to offense ,situations , circumstances , problems , bad company .... the cast down & those " unchurched " who are too wierd for denominational people ...

A melting pot of all men of all creeds , and nations .... kinda like Acts 4 .

 

[SoulFly51]

LDS and JW are not denominations. They are cults.

That is true.

 

[SoulFly51]

Non denominationalism : "the net " to catch all the denominational people who fall away due to offense ,situations , circumstances , problems , bad company .... the cast down & those " unchurched " who are too wierd for denominational people ...

A melting pot of all men of all creeds , and nations .... kinda like Acts 4 .

ummm ...


That's not why I am non-denominational.

The churches in the Bible were not denominational - that is why I'm not. Not because I have "fallen away from a denomination" or because I am "too weird for denominational people"

lol

 

[Im_A]

ok so with all this in mind, what is the true definition of non-denominational?

from what i have seen here, people really don't have anything against the denominations. so is the definition of people from all of the denominations getting together for worship and service, or is it something different? i myself, like i said before, like having a lot of backgrounds with the church members.

on the LDS and JW issue that i mentioned.
i have read books about "cults" that mention them in there, and have mentioned scriptures that "debunks" them if you want to call it that, so i know about all of that. i would like to talk to some of them, and just see how they see the scripture with their beliefs. i am not trying to condone them, and i am not trying to go into their way of thinking either. as a Christian, i don't like living in fear of people of different beliefs. Christ is my foundation and i think we as Christians just need to be set with our personal views and not let anyone Christian or not, come in and rock our world, for in the end, Christ is all that matters. plus, i'll be the first one to say that i love having dialogue with people of different beliefs than me. it's not so much on a spiritual level, but it's more on the lines of i like knowing more about the human race we are all part of. and the only way i will ever try to lead anyone by my chosing, is if their hearts are open to Christianity, and if anything else leads them to God, it will be love. so i just wanted to clear anything up with me mentioning about these groups here.

 

[Stinker]

The way God sees a church as non-denominational is if it follows the pattern He set for it in the New Testament. He created each local body (or congregation) to be autonomous. This is absolutely incredible because it eliminates centralized doctrine for all congregations should the HQ succumb to false teaching.

God placed conrol of each congregation in the hands of older men with families, and they are to be learned in the scriptures, etc. (1Tim.3). Usually in a Denomination the Pastor has total control of the entire congregation. To me, it is a bad sign when a preacher in a non-denominational church makes no effort to help the church to grow in numbers and spirit to the point where Elders can be appointed.

 

[SoulFly51]

i would like to talk to some of them, and just see how they see the scripture with their beliefs.

Be careful if you talk to a Mormon. They might agree with everything you tell them you believe about Christ (they will tell you they believe in Jesus and believe He is the Son of God) They are very deceptive.

 

[plmarquette]

Are the punks , goths , hip hop people , pierced , blue hair .... members of your church ?
Or would they stand out a bit , contrasted to those in suits and ties ?

Our church is a heinz-57 of denominations : ex : baptists , christians , lutherans , catholics ..... who want to understand the Bible , fellowship and partake of the word and the Lord's supper -- but since divorced , some feel they are second hand christians ; we are an ethic church with several different races represented , not separated as black and white christians ; we lift our hands in worship ; lay hands on the sick ; pray in tongues .... some , actually consider these things as " wierd "

 

[plmarquette]

ummm ...


That's not why I am non-denominational.

The churches in the Bible were not denominational - that is why I'm not. Not because I have "fallen away from a denomination" or because I am "too weird for denominational people"

lol

Many are " nondenominational - me included [ indpendant word of faith ] " for we feel called to answer the great commision ( Mt. 28.18 ) , to speak to the lost in private & in love ( Ezekial 3.18-24 ) , to become a priesthood of believers in the order of Melchizidek ( Hebrews 5.6,10, 6.20 ) , to support , assist , and compliment the minister or priest .

Many denominational people see all the work of the church as being the pastor's responsibility ( ephesians 4.11 , 1 corinthians 12.30 ) , but they need to go down 1 more verse : I have raised them up to teach you to go and do the work of the gospel : Matthew 25.32-42 ; Galatians 5.22-3 ; Matthew 5.1-15 , etc.

Many people wounded in denominational churches , can no longer relate to their former form of worship . Some are not wanted in their present condition : blue hair , pierced tongue , tattoos ... God said we are fishers of men ... and to the best of my knowledge , caught fish need to be cleaned and prepared prior to consumption ... the sanctification of the holy spirit , conviction of sin , the training of the saints , the discipling of believers .

Paul was called wierd , a pestilent fellow .... Jesse Duplantis said " we are a holy ghost virus seeking to infect any and all sinners ...

Many mainline denominational churches have lost their first love , guilty of the sins of the 7 churches of the book of revelation ( chapters 2 & 3 ) , only the church at Philadelphia used the eyes and ears of the spirit to listen to what the spirit was saying to the church ...

Many of the denominational churches are content with a 45-60 minute service that is always predictable , quelching the fire of the spirit ; discouraging the growth , change , and fire required to battle the denizons of darkness that abound these days ...

How would you feel about several goths , punks , hip-hop , homeless , bad bikers , homosexuals ..... the wierd , the unwanted , the least of the kingdom showing up at your church , for they heard you were different ... you looked at the heart , at the need , at their spirit , as God does .... the reason for independant , nondenominational , ministry .... for others have waxed cold ... and forsaken their first love .... { better ? clearer ? edify & understood ?}

 

[TruAsher]

Denominations all have limitations on them. For Example. Protestants believe in this part of the bible, but lutherans dont. etc etc etc.

Non-Denominational is great because it takes what the bible says, and apples it to church. I have noticed in denominational churches they are so religious (ask me if you dont understand) that they put themselfs and the chuch itself in chains and blinded them from the truth. Im not saying all denominational churches are like that, but alot of the ones I went to were all like that, and i couldnt stand being there

 

[I_Praise_Him]

There are many reason why I am non-denominational.

1. I grew up in the Lutheran Church, went through Confirmation, and was an Acolyte.
Later on in life I finally figured out that I didn't like all the fluff and glitz of the Lutheran Church. I don't like pastors to wear robes, or hats, or any of that nonsense. And I also prefer singing songs of a progressive style, rather than hymns.

2. I went to Catholic Mass several times with friends, been to Methodist, Baptist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, and Adventist services. I won't get started on the catholics because they don't allow freedom of speech on this board. The other denominational services that I mentioned were all nice, but just weren't a "fit" for me. Again, it had to do with theatrics on the altar or sanctuary, and the music. I need more of an "uplifting" worship style. Baptists were pretty close musically, but I didn't care for the "soul" type music style. My fiance is an Adventist and of course I've been to Sabbath worship several dozens of times with her. After hours upon hours of Bible study I have arrived at the conclusion that Adventist fundamental beliefs are the most closest-aligned with what Jesus, AND the Old Testament teaches. Adventists teach what's in the Bible, period. They teach Scripture over tradition. But then again, the worship services were too slow for me... I needed an uplifting type service.

My current Church, Lakeside Church, is a non-denominational community-type church with no fluff, and no theatrics on the sanctuary. Just pure worship with modern music, and sermons you can identify with. Awesome pastor

 

[Beowulf]

First time I went to the church that would become my church home the pastor was dressed in blue jeans (definately not new) and a T-shirt, sitting on a stool playing a guitar. Since then he's gotten just a bit more formal, not a suit and tie though. The atmosphere is one of acceptance no matter who you are or what you're wearing.
The church has grown out of the older building since then and there are now 3 services on sunday morning.
I feel like I truely belong there, there's a sense of "home" to it all.

 

[I_Praise_Him]

First time I went to the church that would become my church home the pastor was dressed in blue jeans (definately not new) and a T-shirt, sitting on a stool playing a guitar. Since then he's gotten just a bit more formal, not a suit and tie though. The atmosphere is one of acceptance no matter who you are or what you're wearing.
The church has grown out of the older building since then and there are now 3 services on sunday morning.
I feel like I truely belong there, there's a sense of "home" to it all.

That's awesome Beowulf!

 

[Crispie]

Look, I call my self "non denominational" as to reffering that I use the Bible alone with the Holy Spirit as the foundation and core of my beliefs, not some sacred tradition or a book of teachings by the leader of the denom. I follow the same thing the original Church did, purely Gods word, and I dont need a denomination to do that correctly.