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If you read the passages prior to it, you'll see this.have you ever read the whole passage?
Paul says "because of this" but he doesn't really make it clear because of WHAT... at least not to my reading
This could draw us off topic, but I will give a brief explanation of this. I do not believe that much of what is attributed to Jesus in the 4 canonical Gospels is what Jesus actually said. The scholars of the Jesus seminar have worked to try to figure out what Jesus probably did say, what he may have said, and what he almost certainly did not say. These scholars have written a number of books in which they note what Jesus probably did and did not say. Most of what is attributed to Jesus in the Gospel of John, all those "I" saying, he almost certainly did not say, according to these Bible scholars.Hi again,
Your opinion on divorce, as well as Jesus' stance on it, are irrelevant due to your conflicting opinion of Jesus Himself. How do you decide that He denounces divorce, yet then also claim that He didn't say most of the things attributed him?
For you, and for some people, that's what Christianity requires. Not for me. I have faith, but my faith is not in the written word, not in the Bible. My faith is in God. I also do not view faith as a doctrine, as I have said before. My faith is not a set of beliefs. It's a practice.That depends on whether you believe that the scripture is divinely inspired, which you previously have stated that you do not. Christianity requires faith, and one part of that faith is understanding and trusting in what is written as truth.
Paul's writings are true because Paul said they were true?
For you, and for some people, that's what Christianity requires. Not for me. I have faith, but my faith is not in the written word, not in the Bible. My faith is in God. I also do not view faith as a doctrine, as I have said before. My faith is not a set of beliefs. It's a practice.
This is taking us off topic again, I fear.
I do think these matters are off topic for this subforum. I am not here to debate what makes someone a Christian, or whether belief in the Bible is required for being a Christian. That is certainly appropriate for another thread, but it is off the subject of this subforum. The question of whether and how someone can be gay and be a Christian is on topic for this subforum.It has to require this. The reason? Without scripture, Christianity would not exist. Every concept of Christianity is found within scripture, so without it we would have no idea about Christ (Christ-ians follow the messiah Christ), and therefore could not be Christians. At most we would just be deists or pagans who try to live with a good moral code.
You and I both agree that there is a God. That is a doctrine. The word "doctrine" is not an evil fundamentalist word for "black and white".
You may consider this offtopic, but I think it is considerably on-topic, as it is the basis of every argument that comes up in this forum.
Well we both know what being gay consists of, but we obviously do not reach agreement on what being a Christian consists of.I do think these matters are off topic for this subforum. I am not here to debate what makes someone a Christian, or whether belief in the Bible is required for being a Christian. That is certainly appropriate for another thread, but it is off the subject of this subforum. The question of whether and how someone can be gay and be a Christian is on topic for this subforum.
We both have faith, mine rests in the bible, yours rests in the Jesus seminar book. I feel that God wants me in this direction, I feel led by Spirit and preaching truth. The God I believe in is an omnipotent and omnipresent Being.I think that it is important that we understand where we are each coming from in our different faith perspectives so we understand what each of us is saying. Clarifying how we each understand the Bible is not the same as debating whether a Christian must believe in the Bible or not to be a Christian. To get into the latter is to get off topic for this subforum.
He makes it very clear as Jet_A_Jockey has pointed out.Paul says "because of this" but he doesn't really make it clear because of WHAT... at least not to my reading
I am not sure what you mean by this, Jesus words in the gospel are only true becaue the gospel writers write it. The question is does one believe.Paul's writings are true because Paul said they were true?
No, I think we established you don’t have the same understanding as Jet_A_Jockey and I of what gay is.Well we both know what being gay consists of, but we obviously do not reach agreement on what being a Christian consists of.
I agree is that not correct?We both have faith, mine rests in the bible, yours rests in the Jesus seminar book.
I have no problem with the veracity of them. I believe they adequately reflect what Paul sincerely believed on the matter... however saying that what Paul believed is the equivalent of the inerrant word of God just seems like a major leap to meExplain to me how they are in conflict with Christian teaching? I'm not going to argue paul's scriptural importance with you tonight, but its funny that since there are debatable passages in his writings, all of a sudden the veracity of them comes into play.
Um, no, Jesus words are true whether or not the Gospel writers write them down or not... just featuring in the Gospel does not = truth... nor does not featuring in the Gospel necesarily = untruth.Dear EnemyPartyII
He makes it very clear as Jet_A_Jockey has pointed out.
I am not sure what you mean by this, Jesus words in the gospel are only true becaue the gospel writers write it. The question is does one believe.[/i]
That's fine. We hold somewhat different beliefs, and we are different people.Well we both know what being gay consists of, but we obviously do not reach agreement on what being a Christian consists of.
We both have faith, mine rests in the bible, yours rests in the Jesus seminar book. I feel that God wants me in this direction, I feel led by Spirit and preaching truth. The God I believe in is an omnipotent and omnipresent Being.
I have no problem with the veracity of them. I believe they adequately reflect what Paul sincerely believed on the matter... however saying that what Paul believed is the equivalent of the inerrant word of God just seems like a major leap to me
Um, no, Jesus words are true whether or not the Gospel writers write them down or not... just featuring in the Gospel does not = truth... nor does not featuring in the Gospel necesarily = untruth.
But more importantly, we are talking about PAUL's words... not Jesus' words
You are right, when it comes down to it, being a Christian is about DOING, not saying. We can talk to each other till we are blue in the face, but Christ's work for us is exactly that, WORK.That's fine. We hold somewhat different beliefs, and we are different people.
What matters, I think, is how we treat others, and on that I think we agree. You have always been respectful toward gay people, and you have advocated treating gay people as equals. You have never called for excluding or stigmatizing gay people. I think you have been a fine example of the best of Christianity, from what I have seen.
Lol I thought you climbed on the offtopic train with me days ago!Oh, but that is a personal comment, and I should not be making personal comments, probably not even complimentary ones. My bad.
I'm trying to discipline myself to stay on topic!You are right, when it comes down to it, being a Christian is about DOING, not saying. We can talk to each other till we are blue in the face, but Christ's work for us is exactly that, WORK.
Thank you for the kind remarks, I do the work God gives me.
I appreciate that you approach other posters as more than just "arguments", and I hope everyone will start to treat other posters as people first and arguments second.
Lol I thought you climbed on the offtopic train with me days ago!
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