A question for everyone

[vajradhara]

Namaste all,


thank you for the interesting thread.

can i be mistaken? sure thing! gosh... i would be amazed if there was someone that actually thought that they couldn't be mistaken about something... though i know you're out there

i don't think i am and as such, that is why i practice. if i thought i was on the wrong path, i would hop over to the correct one... which, as i've grown in my spiritual path, is exactly what i've done.

one should, however, have faith that their path is capable of liberating them which inspires them to practice diligently. this is key. if you do not believe that your path can liberate you, you should consider changing paths... in my opinion.

some folks, however, are going to be content where they are due to their conditioning...and for these people, things become extraordinarly complex and difficult. trying to hang onto a lable that constantly changes and shifts causes neurotic behavior and ultimately causes one to lose faith in thier tradition.

far better, in my opinion, to have a path that is wide, broad and open to any that would choose to walk along it. we each respond in different ways to different things... and that is what people need for spiritual progress... at least to my way of thinking.

 

[D. Paul]

Skummer, not intending to rattle yur cage or anything, but it sounds to me as tho you have dabbled in a little of this and that and called it spirituality. It also sounds as tho you are proud of the fact of having evolved beyond christianity (lower case "c" very significant to your thought). Just curious - where does the search end?

 

[Myah]

I"m asking everyone to please stay on the subject. I don't want this to turn into another
faith vs. faith (or nonfaith) thread.

 

[guitarchick]

sure, i've had my seasons of drought in my walk with Christ that may make me wonder if i really am a christian...and then i've had times in which i've thought this is too hard, and want to give up. i just remember all the times God has been there for me, and when he's been real to me and when i've felt him near...and how he doesn't always show that he's near, but he still is. i mean, he could be just testing me to see if i'll remain faithful and persevere, and still love and still worship him, even though i don't feel him close. maybe its sin in the way. or whatever...but i've never doubted God's existence...i've only doubted whether i've really accepted Christ. if that makes sense....

 

[Skummer]

Skummer, not intending to rattle yur cage or anything, but it sounds to me as tho you have dabbled in a little of this and that and called it spirituality. It also sounds as tho you are proud of the fact of having evolved beyond christianity (lower case "c" very significant to your thought). Just curious - where does the search end?

The search doesn't end until I die. How could it?

I was into christianity for about 13 years and very devoutly. I grew out of it because of an in-depth study of its history and the bible. While I'm willing to consider the possibility that the bible is based loosely on a real deity, I cannot buy what is said about this deity. I mean come on, the OT god is radically different from the NT god. Of course everybody denies that up and down.

The fact is, we as humans have no idea of any spirit world whatever. None of us. We choose what we believe usually based on what our culture teaches us. I don't trust anybody when it comes to spirituality because everybody has a personal agenda. I must seek and evolve. Can an honest person do otherwise?

 

[dlamberth]

I own "beliefs" and I know it. My beliefs have and do changed, which is why I do not treat my beliefs as truth. What I do treat as truth is what I experience with in my inner journey and how that transforms me into a better human being.

..

 

[Icystwolf]

[noflame]

 

[Icystwolf]

Yes and no. I cannot voluntarily alter my perceptions of the world, and hence, I cannot voluntarily alter my worldview. But this is not a lifesource.

Picture a pebble in the palm of your hand. Just an ordinary, smooth pebble you picked up on the beach. It is grey with a white vein of quartz running through it. That is how you percieve this pebble. That is how it is. It is a pebble. Nothing more, nothing less.
Now try to alter your perception of the pebble. Try and think of it as a branch. A rough branch, just over a foot in length. Sheared off messily at one end, with a few limp leaves hanging onto it. Can you?
Now, what do you have in your hand? Is it truly a branch? Can you believe it to be a branch so much that you percieve it to be one? Is it a rough foot-long length of wood? No. It isn't. Its just an ordinary, smooth pebble you picked up off the beach. Look, there is a vein of white quartz passing through it.
And the point of this rambling? I cannot voluntarily change my perception of the pebble anymore than you can. If I cannot do this to one insignificant pebble, then I cannot do it to my entire worldview, for it and the pebble are of equal weight.

Thus your trust is based on what is there, rather than what is not there...and rather than questioning why the pebble is there, you prefer to just know that the pebble is there because it exists as a pebble.

Right?...

 

[Dyrwen]

I certainly can say "I might be wrong." Lucky for me, I'm also quite sure I'll never know if I'm wrong or right. Heh..only time will tell I suppose.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I think the deepest faith is creating inside a person who has real doubt and overcomes it. I mean that. The person who is rational enough to know that they could be wrong and won't have a real answer until the afterlife (providing there even is one hopefully) and continues to hold their beliefs and evolve them and check and re-check them is a person of strong faith more often than not. I have to tip my hat to them all and I try to be that person as well. We won't know for sure until it's time to know, but having faith is a beautiful thing and I don't think doubt hinders faith as much as it bolsters it in the end. When we work through doubt back to faith our faith is stronger as a result.

 

[He put me back together]

Even if a person knows beyond any doubt that he is right, to insist that he is infallibly correct and anyone who challenges him is wrong is fallacy in an argumentative environment. While it is certain that this forum suffers from this fallacy, as does any forum with a considerable amount of people, the simple fact that people with strong convictions argue very heatedly is not grounds for saying that they suffer from such a fallacy. (Not that I'm saying that anyone on this thread is accusing anyone else)

As for my own beliefs, I'm like anyone else. There are some things I feel strongly about but see the other side of the argument, things I believe are true but do not know for sure, and things I merely speculate on. There are some things I am certain about, especially if some axioms of the world (matter, energy, space) are given to be true. When it comes to argument, however, my level of confidence is not very relevant. It is ignorant, foolish, apathetic, and completely *unChrist-like* of me to announce something to you and insist that you accept it without explanation, as it would be for you to do the same. Christ wasn't like that, and neither should any of us be so.

 

[Heathen Dawn]

Can you as a person take a step back and look at your beliefs, and say "This is what I believe, but I may be wrong?"

I try not to do this, I try to stay as doubtless and firm as possible in my beliefs. All I can say is it’s not working: I’ve had more belief changes than you can shake a stick at.

 

[secretdawn]

To start out, I'm a Wiccan, and am firm in my beliefs, but I've been reading alot of posts, from many different beliefs, and one single question comes to mind for me again and again.

Can you as a person take a step back and look at your beliefs, and say "This is what I believe, but I may be wrong?" I believe the Goddess is with me and I can feel her. But I can also say, " Hey, I might be wrong about that...but that doesn't change what I believe"
Now, I'm not saying anyone is wrong, please don't take this as a questioning of my faith, or that I might need to be ministered to. This is simply from a philosophical standpoint.

WOW! I have been saying that for YEARS! I think the strongest sign of faith is being able to completely believe and have faith in your religion, but realize you are just a small person that can't know everything, and that the possibility is out there that you could be wrong and listen to other's opinions, with out ever waivering in you own faith...and I am a christian, so i definatley don't hear that stuff from many people with my beliefs.

 

[godpraisinchic]

Of course I think I could be wrong, and then I hope that whoever has it right are a bunch of nice fellows.

does anyone really have it right?

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

Myah, one thing that might be valuable is to assess how we arrive at truth. The choices we make about what we believe-how do we arrive at them? This can be helpful.

 

[haya]

Without having read any of the replies to this post/question, I'll give an answer.

Never stop growing. Never stop seeking after truth.

I became a Christian while I was in college; I wasn't brought up in a Christian home, per se, though my parents married in a Catholic church. We'd have a Christmas tree in December and color connect-the-dot Easter bunnies in the spring; that's about as far as my "Christian" roots went. (Ok, I'm exaggerating a little, but you get the point.)
So when I went off to college (uni for the Canuks ), I met people who were Christians. It hadn't really occurred to me until then that there were actually young people of my own generation who were, in my view, "ignorant" enough to believe so strongly in this one religion. So, I started asking them questions. I started investigating. And I came to the conclusion that I was the one who was off-track! I ended up giving my life to Christ at the very end of my freshman year.
So, yes, I've been there done that in the sense that I have questioned my own understanding of "truth" and my beliefs, enough to radically change my life and start living for Jesus.
Do I continue to question my beliefs nowadays? Not in the same sense. I've experienced GOD since then; I've experienced His Joy, His provisions, His presense in my life. I believe wholeheartedly in His Truth as proclaimed in the Bible.
But at the same time, I'm open to discussion and learning. I also enjoying "questioning" God during my quiet times (times of prayer or reading the Bible), or questioning Christian friends and pastors. I'm always asking questions, it seems; man if you looked at my prayer journal, with my questions all over the place, you might wonder if I know anything at all! (hehe, j/k..)

Anyways, have fun learning, exploring, and seeking after truth!

 

[Myah]

Thanks for all your input guys...I'm in the process of moving so I can't be around as much..but I appreciate all your responses in this thread.

 

[Invader Pichu]

.

 

[Philosoft]

I'm a philosophical skeptic, I have doubts about most everything metaphysical - keeping my doubts at intellectual readiness is just what I do. It seems utterly unreasonable to overlook those doubts because of some emotional response I might have. Thus far, the only thing I hold tentative hope as a universal truth is logic.

 

[He put me back together]

does anyone really have it right?

Jerimiah's answer seems to me to be a very distinct "no."