A question for everyone

[Myah]

How about you pull your head out of your *** and stop being arrogant.

Now now..let's not get mean... I might agree with you on some points, but lets use some tact...or the ignore button

Myah, one thing that might be valuable is to assess how we arrive at truth. The choices we make about what we believe-how do we arrive at them? This can be helpful.

I know this might sound like heresy to all you logical people out there ( ) but I often go by my gut when it comes to my choices. I trust my instincts and they usually serve me quite well. But... involving religion, truth is, in my opinion, an illusion. I don't claim that my beliefs are the truth, because they ARE beliefs. I don't know that they are true. I believe they are, but that does not necessarily make it so.

WOW! I have been saying that for YEARS! I think the strongest sign of faith is being able to completely believe and have faith in your religion, but realize you are just a small person that can't know everything, and that the possibility is out there that you could be wrong and listen to other's opinions, with out ever waivering in you own faith...and I am a christian, so i definatley don't hear that stuff from many people with my beliefs.

Which is why I never claim that a religion is wrong. I may disagree with a certain religions practices, but it doesn't make it a "wrong" religion.

 

[TheOriginalWhitehorse]

I know this might sound like heresy to all you logical people out there ( ) but I often go by my gut when it comes to my choices. I trust my instincts and they usually serve me quite well. But... involving religion, truth is, in my opinion, an illusion. I don't claim that my beliefs are the truth, because they ARE beliefs. I don't know that they are true. I believe they are, but that does not necessarily make it so.

Yes- a lot of people trust their gut. Congratulations on discerning this. There are a lot of people who can't discern this about how they look for truth. I'm deeply impressed.

On the subject of truth, I would offer that truth, being by nature what it is, can never be an illusion simply necause it is truth. But I think you're right on target that beliefs can be an illusion, because they simulate the truth, but may not necessarily be.

Which is the same conclusion you drew. I'm very impressed.

 

[taedium]

Being atheist I don't be believe in any absolute right or wrong. However, I did define a personal moral system to guide decision making and within its context I don't question it - one of the first morals I included was that is would be immoral to drop a moral. After all, given my first sentence an alternative personal moral system would be no more right or wrong than my current one. I do question my belief that there is no absolute right or wrong, but I haven't been able to raise any serious challenges to it since I adopted it.

 

[Krysia]

Merry Meet,

I continously question my beliefs. It is why I left Catholicism, which never felt right for me, for Wicca which I liken to a homecoming . I found my truth in the god and goddess. To not question (not just religion, but everything in life) is to shun growth.

In love and light,
Krysia

 

[wayfaring man]

Confidence is like rain .

Too little , and you dry up .

Too much , and you drown .

"...We know that we all have knowledge . Knowledge puffeth up , but charity edifies . And if any man think that he knows any thing , he knows nothing yet as he ought to know . But if any man love God , the same is known of him . " <-----> 1st Cor. 1-3

Whenever a person speaks ( unless that speech is Divinely inspired ) , we can only speak of our perspective of God or Truth , etc .

There are basically 3 forms of knowledge , from first to last .

1. Conceptual knowledge - our first introduction .

2. Experiencial knowledge - our attempts at applying / proving .

3. Charitable knowledge - our sharing of applied / proven knowledge .

Too often in our eagerness to know , and be known as , one who knows ; we attempt to make the leap from # 1 . to # 3 . , and skip the more demanding # 2 . ; but then , we know not of what we speak !

Also , it is in step # 2. that the revelation - the more I know , the more I realize how little I know , is located .

None the less , The Lord is faithful to make available to us the knowledge and corresponding confirmations which are necessary for our lives to grow and mature into the fullness of Character and Fitness which allow for our perfection through Christ and His Holy Faith and Love .

There are certainly some things I am more persuaded of than others .

Perhaps the key to not doubting one's beliefs is in the proving before hand .

Initially , I attempted to believe on the testimony of Jesus as a hopeful experiment , praying that confirmation would follow , if indeed , the concept I was embracing was true .

Now , while I still may question certain aspects of following Jesus , and the Holy Example set for us thereby , I do not question whether He is the One to follow or not ; and I am even more persuaded of this after beholding the dissimilar beliefs of " non - believers ".

No offense intended - wm

 

[Magisterium]

Merry Meet,

I continously question my beliefs. It is why I left Catholicism, which never felt right for me, for Wicca which I liken to a homecoming . I found my truth in the god and goddess. To not question (not just religion, but everything in life) is to shun growth.

In love and light,
Krysia

Interesting perspective. It is certainly worth stating here, the differences between doubting, disputing, and questioning. Questioning is always constructive. However, may people today, particularly in matters of faith, doubt and dispute their faith in the name of "questioning".

What's interesting particularly to me (a practicing Catholic) is what questions you had, saught answers to, and found the answers to, in Wicca. One reason I could never accept Wicca as a faith (though I admittedly know relatively little about it) is because it seems to lack concrete defineable authority and morality. I personally look for a faith that does more than tickle my "spirit bone". I like to know definitively that the faith itself is not free to be defined by anyone as they see fit. Particularly because I'm so well aquaited with the problem of evil and it's effects on humanity and society. In Wicca, I sensed a sort of inadvertant tendency toward anarchy. A sort of whimsical willingness to cast off the "shackles" of boundaries. It seems to me like a blissful descent into lawlessness.

My obvoius problem with this, is that like any descent, it's not the fall that injures, it's hitting the bottom. Historically, it's always been only once in the fray of anarchy that people tend to be rudely awakened to their plight and then accept any form of rule (however unjust or oppressive) that proposes to restore some order. As I understand it, these were the circumstances in which the Nazi regime came into power as well as Communism and Marxism. (please don't think that I am comparing Wicca to either of those regimes or implying that it led to them, I'm certainly not)

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Can you as a person take a step back and look at your beliefs, and say "This is what I believe, but I may be wrong?" But I can also say, " Hey, I might be wrong about that...but that doesn't change what I believe"

Yes. My beliefs are so complex that I'm always questioning whether I'm on the right track or not. Searching myself for righteousness and truth. I've been on the wrong path before. I was a Buddhist for a while. It didn't ring true for me. I was also a fundamental baptist for a while. It resonated negatively as well. I feel I'm on the right path right now. But my beliefs are not a stagnant thing. They are ever evolving into something more profound. So it's a little hard to stand back and judge it in it's incompleteness until my journey is over.

But I think I understand where you are coming from. And I think I would be able to rightly answer yes. When anyone becomes too sure of things ethereal...it seems a little immature to me. How can anyone be 100% confident that they can or do know all there is to know about God, the universe, etc.? Understanding eludes. Full understanding anyway. It is the quest for enlightenment that brings us closer to God. But again...these are only my beliefs and ponderings.

I think trouble comes about when anyone thinks they know better about what someone else should or shouldn't believe, then they do. And then presumes to tell them. Acceptance of others spiritual beliefs is often a connotation of ones own spiritual depth. (JMO based on what I've observed)

 

[vajradhara]

Yes. My beliefs are so complex that I'm always questioning whether I'm on the right track or not. Searching myself for righteousness and truth. I've been on the wrong path before. I was a Buddhist for a while. It didn't ring true for me. I was also a fundamental baptist for a while. It resonated negatively as well. I feel I'm on the right path right now. But my beliefs are not a stagnant thing. They are ever evolving into something more profound. So it's a little hard to stand back and judge it in it's incompleteness until my journey is over.

Namaste wisdom seeker,

if i may inquire... which school of Buddhism did you practice? did you actually go for refuge?

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

Namaste wisdom seeker,

if i may inquire... which school of Buddhism did you practice? did you actually go for refuge?

Namaste (the light within me, salutes the light within you.) Valjradhara,
I believe we've discussed this before if I'm not mistaken. (I don't expect you to remember if this is so or not...just thinking out loud)

I practiced Nicheron Shoshu Buddhism. No, I practiced for spiritual enlightenment. Is that why you practice the type of Buddhism that you do? Refuge? And if so...refuge from what exactly?

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste (the light within me, salutes the light within you.) Valjradhara,
I believe we've discussed this before if I'm not mistaken. (I don't expect you to remember if this is so or not...just thinking out loud)

I practiced Nicheron Shoshu Buddhism. No, I practiced for spiritual enlightenment. Is that why you practice the type of Buddhism that you do? Refuge? And if so...refuge from what exactly?

Namaste Wisdom seeker,

hmm... i don't recall our discussing this previously, but you are correct... i could have easily forgotten our conversation!

ah..thank you for the clarification

refuge is a techincal term in Buddhism.. it's rather like confirming your comittment to seeking enlightenment in a formal ceremony in the presence of the community of practiconers. one takes refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. these are collectively known as the "Three Confidences" and are found throughout all three schools of Buddhism.

is there any particular reason why you chose that one particular sect and school over another? for me, it was predicated upon the exposition of the Abidharma as found in the Vajrayana schools. particularly that of the Madhyamika philosophical school. in my opinon, the other veiws were not complete.

i find it rather difficult to discuss Buddhism in any detail with people that aren't conversant in some of the basics of the tradition since one word may end up in a paragraph of explanation and i'm not all that good at explaining it anyway!

 

[~Wisdom Seeker~]

You do not appear to be familiar with Nicheron Shoshu Buddhism. So, I will give you a little information so that you can better understand why I am not familiar with the language of your sect.

Nichiren Shoshu began with Nichiren Daishonin of Japan. He renounced the world to enter the Buddhist priesthood, and upon the thorough completion of the entire study of Buddhism, on April 28 in the fifth year of Kencho (1253) Nichiren Daishonin - aged 32 - revealed His ultimate realization, the enlightenment of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, the Supreme Law and Wisdom of the True Original Buddha of Kuon-ganjo, and based on this realization made His declaration of the establishment of True Buddhism.

refuge is a techincal term in Buddhism.. it's rather like confirming your comittment to seeking enlightenment in a formal ceremony in the presence of the community of practiconers. one takes refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. these are collectively known as the "Three Confidences" and are found throughout all three schools of Buddhism.

I went through a ceremony to receive my Gohonzon. That was almost two decades ago. With that much time I have forgetten the Japanese title of the ceremony. I'm not sure what you mean by "three schools of Buddhism. Perhaps you are not recognizing N.S.B. as one of them. It does not appear so.

is there any particular reason why you chose that one particular sect and school over another?

Thank you for thinking me that dogmatic in my decision. It was simply that there was an active temple in my area and my Mother had been practicing for quite some time and encouraged me to join her.

i find it rather difficult to discuss Buddhism in any detail with people that aren't conversant in some of the basics of the tradition since one word may end up in a paragraph of explanation and i'm not all that good at explaining it anyway!

That's alright. I find discussing Buddhism with you rather similar to discussing Fundamental Baptist with a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness. While they all (say they) are Christian, they are decidedly not the same in belief or practice.

It appears we really have no common pespective on which to draw from. So, Unless you have any further questions. I'll consider our discussion concluded.

 

[vajradhara]

You do not appear to be familiar with Nicheron Shoshu Buddhism. So, I will give you a little information so that you can better understand why I am not familiar with the language of your sect.

Nichiren Shoshu began with Nichiren Daishonin of Japan. He renounced the world to enter the Buddhist priesthood, and upon the thorough completion of the entire study of Buddhism, on April 28 in the fifth year of Kencho (1253) Nichiren Daishonin - aged 32 - revealed His ultimate realization, the enlightenment of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, the Supreme Law and Wisdom of the True Original Buddha of Kuon-ganjo, and based on this realization made His declaration of the establishment of True Buddhism.

Namaste wisdom seeker,

on the contrary, i'm very familiar with this sect of Buddhism, thank you for your explanation though. i always enjoy hearing how a practiconer views their tradition, or ex-tradition in this case. i should say, however, that my language at this point has been non-sectarian with regards to the questions that i've posed and the information that i've posted. i'm using no language that is particular to the Vajrayana nor to my particular sect.

I went through a ceremony to receive my Gohonzon. That was almost two decades ago. With that much time I have forgetten the Japanese title of the ceremony. I'm not sure what you mean by "three schools of Buddhism. Perhaps you are not recognizing N.S.B. as one of them. It does not appear so.

Buddhism has three vehicles or schools, Hinyana (Lesser Vehicle), Mahayana (of which Nichiren Shoshu is a sect) (Greater Vehicle) and Vajrayana (Diamond Vehicle).

Thank you for thinking me that dogmatic in my decision. It was simply that there was an active temple in my area and my Mother had been practicing for quite some time and encouraged me to join her.

hmm... well... it was a simple question with an explanation of what my decision was based upon. it was meant to elict more information on your motivation for choosing this one sect of Buddhism from the others. further, i have no idea if you are a dogmatic sort or not... i don't see the connection here. if i offended you with asking your reasons for choosing a particular sect, then i apologize.

That's alright. I find discussing Buddhism with you rather similar to discussing Fundamental Baptist with a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness. While they all (say they) are Christian, they are decidedly not the same in belief or practice.

It appears we really have no common pespective on which to draw from. So, Unless you have any further questions. I'll consider our discussion concluded.

wow.

perhaps you are thinking that i'm someone else that you don't like? i've no idea where this is coming from at all...

Buddhists have plenty of things in common, as do Christians... heck so do most people for that matter. my point was simply that it is difficult to talk about words that must be translated before they make sense in the conversation, not an indictment of your understanding or knowledge.

if you're uncomfortable discussing this issue, i have no intention of pressuring or cajoling you into discourse.

 

[Myah]

Shameless bump. *whistles innocently*

 

[Havoc]

But wicca, I've noticed it's getting popular with young girls who seems to like getting something for nothing....why? I don't believe love potions ever worked on me.....esspecially when I'm a Christian and spirituality is something I can sense and feel....poor girls, when will they ever learn that I only like Christians and Character...and that magic is all a hoax...for wicca my eyes sees nothing more than dust...............but those are my eyes-> you can interperate them as my opinion

Peace

I will interpret them as your opinion, the opinion of someone who obviously doesn't know very much about Wicca. Wicca is popular among young girls, and middle aged mothers, and old womaen, and young men, and old men and...

Wicca is not something for nothing. We don't believe, for instance, that you can erase every harm you've done just with a prayer and not have to pay the consequences. That would be something for nothing.

Wiccan girls wouldn't be casting love spells on you. Aside from whether a Wiccan would want someone so full of himself that he thinks Witches are constantly trying to trick him into love relationships, we don't cast spells on people who don't expressly ask our help.

You may think Magick is a hoax, but then you cannot show that Christianity is not a hoax. Sauce for the goose...

 

[Kira Faye]

Actually casting a love potion would I find would be against our beliefs.......it woudl have to have very precise wording so as not to try and manipluate the person. I think of it along the same lines as peopel thinking that this witch is casting a hex.......seeign that woudl be against everythign a witch stands for I doubt that person can be considered a witch.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Can you as a person take a step back and look at your beliefs, and say "This is what I believe, but I may be wrong?"

Consider that Socrates said that the unexamined life is not worth living. He sought truth by having dialog with fellow Athenians so that he could test their beliefs and his own in argument, and thereby discover beliefs that are justified. He was never content to simply assume he was correct in believing something, even if it was a popular belief. He wanted to know whether or not his beliefs were correct. Socrates lived the examined life.

It is impossible to examine your beliefs without at least provisionally accepting that they could be wrong. This does not mean you have to believe they are wrong. There's nothing wrong with having strong convictions. All it means is that you don't regard yourself as infallible.

To answer your question, I have changed my mind on philosophical issues before, and I will probably do so again. This is a part of growth. In fact, as a Eudaimonist, this is part of what I do as a way of life. I personally think that it is important to live the examined life.