• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

A question for Christians

Status
Not open for further replies.

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
A question for christians.
Do Christians see the stories of Osiris, Dyonisus,Attis, Adonis, Baccus etc as just pure fiction , tales, myths or do they beleive in them as facts.Do they beleive these pagan Gods actually existed.
Thanks
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

If they were not historical figures, then they don't qualify anyways. I don't think that any of them qualify as historical figures. I do know that myths were often made up to explain the unexplainable or an attempt to explain the mystical, supernatural, etc. Those are false gods.
 
Upvote 0

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟26,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Did anyone see the movie, "The God Who Wasn't There"? There's an interview with a gentleman named Robert Price who is a professor of Biblical Criticism. Here's a relevant quote:

"There are other similar savior figures in the same neighborhood at the same time in history: Mithras, Attis, Adonis, Osiris, Tammuz, and so forth, uh, and uh, nobody thinks these characters are anything but mythical. And their stories are so similar, most of them, in fact, having some kind of resurrection or another, um, sometimes even with celebrations after three days and so forth, that it just seems like special pleading to, uh, say, "Oh, well, in this one case, it really happened." The early church fathers understood that this was a problem, because they were already getting the same objections from pagans. They said, "What you say about Jesus, we've been saying about, you know, Dionysus and Hercules all the time, and what's the big deal?" And they didn't believe in them either, any more. And so the Christian apologists, the defenders of the faith, would say, "Well, yeah, but *this* one is true. Satan counterfeited it in advance 'cause he knew this day would come." Boy, I tell you, that tells you two things right there: That even *they* didn't deny that these other Jesus-like characters were before Jesus, or they never would have resorted to something like that. Satan knew it was going to happen and counterfeited it in advance?"

I can't find the specific quote but later he relates the mythologies to comic books. Paraphrasing: "Yea, we have SpiderMan, and X-Men, and the Green Lantern, and Captain America, but Superman? He's real!"
 
Upvote 0

Gardenia

Of the Hearth and Hedge
May 1, 2005
3,014
109
39
New Hampshire
✟26,292.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Democrat
There are other similar savior figures in the same neighborhood at the same time in history: Mithras, Attis, Adonis, Osiris, Tammuz, and so forth, uh, and uh, nobody thinks these characters are anything but mythical.

Uhh, well, I wouldn't say nobody. ;)

To answer the question, although I am not a Christian.. I have been told by countless Christians that my Gods are not real. That the pagan Gods do not exist, that theirs is the only God who exists. That these tales are not fact, that they did not literally happen, but that they are stories made up by people - or, on occasion, I am told they were made by Satan as awitch's quote also points out.
(Of course, I would also point out that many pagans did not and do not take all the myths as literal events either. The Egyptian "Contendings of Heru and Set" was not seen as a literal event, at least by the Middle Kingdom and possibly before, but as symbolic stories. This didn't make their Gods any less real to them, however. That is where the difference lies..)
I can't find the specific quote but later he relates the mythologies to comic books. Paraphrasing: "Yea, we have SpiderMan, and X-Men, and the Green Lantern, and Captain America, but Superman? He's real!"
No, no, no everyone knows Batman is the only true super hero!
 
Upvote 0

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟26,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
[/i]Uhh, well, I wouldn't say nobody. ;)

Me neither.

I have been told by countless Christians that my Gods are not real. That the pagan Gods do not exist, that theirs is the only God who exists.

I usually get, yes they are real, but are all Satan in disguise.
(Imagining Satan carrying around a disguise kit with fake nose and glasses)
 
Upvote 0

TG123

Regular Member
Jul 1, 2006
4,965
203
somewhere
✟21,969.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A question for christians.
Do Christians see the stories of Osiris, Dyonisus,Attis, Adonis, Baccus etc as just pure fiction , tales, myths or do they beleive in them as facts.Do they beleive these pagan Gods actually existed.
Thanks
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just
No, I don't believe these stories to be facts. I believe there is only God. Peace be with you too.
 
Upvote 0

ZuZu

Contributor
Dec 16, 2005
5,270
1,834
✟28,281.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Did anyone see the movie, "The God Who Wasn't There"? There's an interview with a gentleman named Robert Price who is a professor of Biblical Criticism. Here's a relevant quote:

"There are other similar savior figures in the same neighborhood at the same time in history: Mithras, Attis, Adonis, Osiris, Tammuz, and so forth, uh, and uh, nobody thinks these characters are anything but mythical. And their stories are so similar, most of them, in fact, having some kind of resurrection or another, um, sometimes even with celebrations after three days and so forth, that it just seems like special pleading to, uh, say, "Oh, well, in this one case, it really happened." The early church fathers understood that this was a problem, because they were already getting the same objections from pagans. They said, "What you say about Jesus, we've been saying about, you know, Dionysus and Hercules all the time, and what's the big deal?" And they didn't believe in them either, any more. And so the Christian apologists, the defenders of the faith, would say, "Well, yeah, but *this* one is true. Satan counterfeited it in advance 'cause he knew this day would come." Boy, I tell you, that tells you two things right there: That even *they* didn't deny that these other Jesus-like characters were before Jesus, or they never would have resorted to something like that. Satan knew it was going to happen and counterfeited it in advance?"

I can't find the specific quote but later he relates the mythologies to comic books. Paraphrasing: "Yea, we have SpiderMan, and X-Men, and the Green Lantern, and Captain America, but Superman? He's real!"

very interesting! I've read about this, very logical....thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Supreme

British
Jul 30, 2009
11,891
490
London
✟30,185.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
A question for christians.
Do Christians see the stories of Osiris, Dyonisus,Attis, Adonis, Baccus etc as just pure fiction , tales, myths or do they beleive in them as facts.Do they beleive these pagan Gods actually existed.
Thanks
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

If Christians believed the pagan gods existed, then they wouldn't actually be considered Christians, but pagans.
 
Upvote 0

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟26,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
If Christians believed the pagan gods existed, then they wouldn't actually be considered Christians, but pagans.

But doesn't the commandment say "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"? That seems to imply acknowledging the existence of other gods.

If not, then who were the pre-Christians worshiping?
 
Upvote 0

Supreme

British
Jul 30, 2009
11,891
490
London
✟30,185.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
But doesn't the commandment say "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"? That seems to imply acknowledging the existence of other gods.

If not, then who were the pre-Christians worshiping?

Yahweh is a jealous God who was fed up with the Jews and their false idol worhsip. Also, the pre-christians worhsipped Yahweh or other various gods, seeing as Christians were Gentiles and Jews.
 
Upvote 0

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
But doesn't the commandment say "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"? That seems to imply acknowledging the existence of other gods.

If not, then who were the pre-Christians worshiping?

I am not sure about how to explain this, but I will give it a try. There is only one god, but there are many who substitute other things in His place; thus, the notion of other gods. The other gods are not gods in the sense that they have any power and authority. They are a result of interacting with other spiritual beings that exist in the spiritual realm that are in opposition to God. They are rebellious and aim to lead us from God. These spiritual beings do have the capacity to persuade us to follow them instead. Why? Because they want us to serve other things in place of God just like they chose. These beings have no power over us other than the power we give them when we yield to them by not obeying the Spirit of the true living god. We give the power because are often weak in being able to discern and to obey the spiritual things of God. That has to do with out fallen nature, as sin has caused.

Keep in mind that the first sentence that I underlined is the key. Replacements for the living God are what the other gods are in context of the Bible. Some are made up purely out of man's imagination and others are invocations of spirits in opposition to the true God. Christians often refer to these spirits as evil or false spirits. The concepts that are created from these spirits are referred to as false gods. That means that some gods are imaginations and others are rooted in contact with other spiritual beings who have been defiled by their disobedience to God.
 
Upvote 0

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Did anyone see the movie, "The God Who Wasn't There"? There's an interview with a gentleman named Robert Price who is a professor of Biblical Criticism. Here's a relevant quote:

"There are other similar savior figures in the same neighborhood at the same time in history: Mithras, Attis, Adonis, Osiris, Tammuz, and so forth, uh, and uh, nobody thinks these characters are anything but mythical. And their stories are so similar, most of them, in fact, having some kind of resurrection or another, um, sometimes even with celebrations after three days and so forth, that it just seems like special pleading to, uh, say, "Oh, well, in this one case, it really happened." The early church fathers understood that this was a problem, because they were already getting the same objections from pagans. They said, "What you say about Jesus, we've been saying about, you know, Dionysus and Hercules all the time, and what's the big deal?" And they didn't believe in them either, any more. And so the Christian apologists, the defenders of the faith, would say, "Well, yeah, but *this* one is true. Satan counterfeited it in advance 'cause he knew this day would come." Boy, I tell you, that tells you two things right there: That even *they* didn't deny that these other Jesus-like characters were before Jesus, or they never would have resorted to something like that. Satan knew it was going to happen and counterfeited it in advance?"

I can't find the specific quote but later he relates the mythologies to comic books. Paraphrasing: "Yea, we have SpiderMan, and X-Men, and the Green Lantern, and Captain America, but Superman? He's real!"

I am not sure about the responses of the apologists you speak of, but I do know from reading the Bible that none of these figures were given any historical presence like Jesus was. Upon close examination, the other figures don't have the same claims as Jesus gave. The accounts don't match as close to Jesus as some people have claimed. I think that the most damaging evidence is that those figures lack historical presence. There really is no need for any Christian to argue special pleading if they are grounded in the Bible and have studied these other figures.

Me neither.



I usually get, yes they are real, but are all Satan in disguise.
(Imagining Satan carrying around a disguise kit with fake nose and glasses)

There are spiritual beings that lead people to worship other than God. These beings are real, but they are not God or gods; for there is only one God.

very interesting! I've read about this, very logical....thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:

It is logical to conclude these things from a distance than it is after closer examination. None of the figures really compare to Jesus. If Jesus is who He claimed to be, it wouldn't matter. The issue that you and other non Christians depend upon is that Jesus' claims are not true, or at least all of them aren't true..
 
Upvote 0

JesuSlavex

Active Member
Aug 11, 2005
38
3
46
Waynesville, NC
✟168.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Do you honestly believe that the story of Jesus is the first of its kind?! This story has been told since 3000BC

Every year at first minute of December 25th the temple of Mithras was lit with candles, priests in in white garments celebrated the birth of the Son of God and boys burned incense. Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. He came from heaven to be born as a man, to redeem men from their sin. He was know as "Savior," "Son of God," "Redeemer," and "Lamb of God."

His followers kept the Sabbath holy, eating sacramental meals in remembrance of Him. The sacred meal of bread and water, or bread and wine, was symbolic of the body and blood of the sacred bull. Mithraic rituals brought about the transformation and Salvation of His adherents—an ascent of the soul of the adherent into the realm of the divine. From the wall of a Mithraic temple in Rome: "And thou hast saved us by shedding the eternal blood." The great Mithraic festivals celebrated His birth (at the winter solstice) and His death and resurrection (at the spring solstice).

Yeshua existed, but Jesus is a mythical character who was fabricated by the apostle Paul, using the Gods of the Pagans at the time to more easily convert them. Paul's teachings about Yeshua were very different from those of James, Peter, and the others in the Jerusalem group. It is striking that Paul's letters never quote Yeshua, rarely refer to Yeshua's teachings, and never mention Yeshua's life. Paul taught his own version of Yeshua's teachings and created his own rules. The Christian Church throughout the 2,000 years since Yeshua has been formed by Paul's teachings, not the teachings of James, the brother of Yeshua, and, some say, not the teachings of Yeshua himself.

The fact that Paul did not present Yeshua's teachings in his epistles or his own preaching has been acknowledged for centuries. Only the Church, built around Paul, fails to admit that fact.
 
Upvote 0

seashale76

Unapologetic Iconodule
Dec 29, 2004
14,046
4,454
✟207,847.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Married
To the OP: What does the Church think about other gods? All other gods are demons.

Re: Mithras
There were two forms of Mithraism as practiced by two different groups of people in two different times. One was Persian. The other was Roman. The Roman version is distinctly first century post-Christian and differs in many ways from the Persian version.
 
Upvote 0

Supreme

British
Jul 30, 2009
11,891
490
London
✟30,185.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Is jealousy good? Is it a good thing to be jealous?

If it isn't, then why is it okay for you to ascribe this emotion to your God, who is supposed to be all-good?

Um, it's from the Bible. Like, directly:
14 (for you shall worship no other God, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God).

Exodus 34:14
 
Upvote 0

JesuSlavex

Active Member
Aug 11, 2005
38
3
46
Waynesville, NC
✟168.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Um, it's from the Bible. Like, directly:
Exodus 34:14

So wait a sec. You saying that the Bible says that jealousy is a bad thing. Arent you supposed to be Christ like? If God truly viewed jealousy as a bad thing in men then he himself is guilty of it. God is Christ, your trying to be something that God condemns yet asks you to be just as like him as possible?

Uh oh! I came up with that when I was high too. 7 years of ministry and this is the kind of fundamental stuff that people dont think about. Do some research people.

Yahweh still guides me. I denounced Christianity and the relationship never changed.

BAM!
 
Upvote 0

WingsOfEagles07

Jesus loves you friend
Mar 9, 2009
447
22
33
Dunbar, West Virginia
✟24,383.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
very interesting! I've read about this, very logical....thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:

I am sorry but this is not logical at all. I mean if these god's had the "supposed" similar characteristics that Jesus had, why wouldn't they provide a way for everyone to know about them? Because JESUS did. We have the Bible. I cannot go to Wal-Mart or anything other store and find some other book that was provided so everyone could know it. These god's cannot explain the origins of all things like God can and still be consistent.
 
Upvote 0

HumbleSiPilot77

Senior Contributor
Jan 4, 2003
10,040
421
Arizona
✟27,775.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
God is a jealous God, but it is taught that jealousy is bad, and God can't be jealous since He is all good. Therefore Scripture can't be true. Instead of thinking for a second why Scriptures define God as jealous, people are quick to slam and "bam" God so they can go ahead and be happy with their own contention. Don't forget the regular attacks to St. Paul. How ignorant one can be by simply not acknowledging that Apostles of Christ still lived and existed during St. Paul's time and this "evil" Paul would have gotten his bottom handed to him in a platter during Council of Jerusalem due to his corrupt teachings that never talk about this Jesus??... St. John the Theologian somehow managed to battle the heresy of gnosticism but those gullible Christians man, they all fell for it when it came to St. Paul. Somehow St. Paul managed to suppress all these Apostles and their testimonies and created a myth so he could too be a martyr for it... Wow what a research what a conclusion. Same research also says stuff about Christianity existed before it so it must be borrowed. How simplistic... Pagan literature testifies to their need to invent gods, to fill the universe with something that could give it meaning. And they somehow knew that this something was to be found in the supernatural realm. Out of that search were born the innumerable gods who filled their myths. These were imaginary gods and could, therefore, only offer "desire without hope." And yet, as Clive Staples Lewis came to see it, their dreams were inspired by God. Their search was an unfocused one; they had the intuition of a God but lacked the revelation. In spite of that and of the darkness that clouded their human minds because of Original Sin, we find in their writings some fragments of the Truth. Some "researchers" say that Zarathustra lived around 600-500 BC. If that were the case, David, Isaiah and Jeremiah (all of whom mention the Messiah, the resurrection and the final judgment in their writings), lived and wrote before Zarathustra. Some scholars say that Zoroaster lived sometime between 1500 and 1200 BC. If that were the case, the case for Christianity borrowing from Zoroastrianism would be stronger, but the fact is we don’t know when Zarathustra lived (hence the disagreement among these "researchers") and so this argument is speculative at best. The Greek historian Herodotus (5th Century BC) doesn’t mention him in his treatise on the Medo-Persian religions, though Plato, who was born roughly around the time Herodotus died, does mention him in his Alcibiades.

This looks to be another case of skeptics citing a pre-Christian religion, assuming that the post-Christian form of the religion (which we know about) has remained faithful to the pre-Christian form of the religion (which we know nothing about), and speculating that the similarities between the religion and Christianity are due to Christianity borrowing from the religion in question. It’s a philosophical argument without solid evidence to back it up. Have we any good reason not to suppose that it was Zoroastrianism which borrowed from Christianity and not vice versa? We know that Zoroastrianism borrowed freely from the polytheistic faiths of the region in which it became popular. Mithra, for example, was a Persian god who found a prominent role in Zoroastrianism. Mithra’s Hindu counterpart is the god Mitra.

All philosophical arguments aside, we know that Jesus Christ was a real historical figure, that He fulfilled numerous specific prophecies written and preserved hundreds of years before His life, that He died on a cross, and that He was reported to have risen from the dead and interacted with men and women who were willing to suffer horribly and die for this testimony...

Yea people, do some research.

Mithraism. Not an influence on Christianity
 
  • Like
Reactions: seashale76
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.