A question for Christians

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I'm saying that pagan concepts were allowed to be integrated into early Christianity in an effort to allow for easier conversion for the Gentiles.

Such as?

Also, my point about God Jeslousy was never addressed

Why is God a jealous God?

"Your saying that the Bible says that jealousy is a bad thing.

Where?quote] Arent you supposed to be Christ like?[/quote]Irrelevant.

If God truly viewed jealousy as a bad thing in men then he himself is guilty of it.

God is not a man.... (Numbers 23:19)

God is Christ, your trying to be something that God condemns yet asks you to be just as like him as possible?"

Reword this, doesn't make sense.

 

[JesuSlavex]

I'm not your google. But that tells me that you havent even entertained the thought nor done any research on the matter. Your making an arguement about something you don't know about.

The link you provided doesn't provide an explanation, it provides an excuse

Exodus 20:5 and Galatians 5:20 - If you actually read the article you linked you would have known that.

Numbers was written before Christs appearance and so the statement remains true.

And last but not least. God is asking you to live to a standard that he himself doesn't live up to.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I'm not your google. But that tells me that you havent even entertained the thought nor done any research on the matter. Your making an arguement about something you don't know about.

Not surprisingly, no argument here at all, but only personal remarks. No encountering argument submitted for review and if one is not willing to back up his original statement, there is not much here to say. One has to realize when making a positive claim where onus probandi lies. Bear in mind that I already put down an explanation on the Christian position against so-called "pagan influences". So let's move on.

The link you provided doesn't provide an explanation, it provides an excuse

Exodus 20:5 and Galatians 5:20 - If you actually read the article you linked you would have known that.

The article at the link perfectly renders an explanation to the point where God is being accused. God, by Scriptures, is not committing the sin of envy/jealousy. It is clear in the article. Article also gives a practical example for those who can not understand the difference.

Numbers was written before Christs appearance and so the statement remains true.

When Numbers was written is completely irrelevant if one is trying to build his original argument on Exodus where God says "I am a jealous God", that was written before Christ's "appearance" also. Logically this defense doesn't make any sense. The statement doesn't follow its original premise. The Christian Scriptures also marks the difference between sin and ownership. Notice that God is jealous when someone gives to another something that rightly belongs to Him. What He is jealous of belongs to Him; worship and service belong to Him alone, and are to be given to Him alone. God is not envious or jealous of something He doesn't have which is the sin Bible talks about.

And last but not least. God is asking you to live to a standard that he himself doesn't live up to.

Again, this would be only true if God was committing the sin of envy. One needs to prove otherwise if there is such a claim of shortcoming. Standards are clearly set and biblical exegesis of the context shows that.

 

[JesuSlavex]

Not surprisingly, no argument here at all, but only personal remarks. No encountering argument submitted for review and if one is not willing to back up his original statement, there is not much here to say. One has to realize when making a positive claim where onus probandi lies. Bear in mind that I already put down an explanation on the Christian position against so-called "pagan influences". So let's move on.

I disagree, but thats ok. We'll just let that one go.

The article at the link perfectly renders an explanation to the point where God is being accused. God, by Scriptures, is not committing the sin of envy/jealousy. It is clear in the article. Article also gives a practical example for those who can not understand the difference. The Christian Scriptures also marks the difference between sin and ownership. Notice that God is jealous when someone gives to another something that rightly belongs to Him. What He is jealous of belongs to Him; worship and service belong to Him alone, and are to be given to Him alone. God is not envious or jealous of something He doesn't have which is the sin Bible talks about.

I condensed your reply into its proper points. You kind of trailed off there.

The article was circular logic. To quote the article.

"Being jealous for something that God declares to belong to you is good and appropriate. Jealousy is a sin when it is a desire for something that does not belong to you."

Thats odd. When a person worships an Idol, that worship ISNT FOR GOD, its for the diety that the idol represents. Thus God has a desire for something that wasnt GIVEN to him freely regardless of who actually owned it. Thus God became the jealous God in the sinful way. Giant gaping hole in the Bibles Fallibility.

Lets go a step further with this. Lets just say I have it all wrong. The word “jealous” is translated in the Old Testament from the Hebrew word qin’ah, and in the New Testament from the Greek word zelos, where we get our word ZEALOUS. That gives us a mistranslation. Yet another gaping hole in the Bibles Fallibility.

When Numbers was written is completely irrelevant if one is trying to build his original argument on Exodus where God says "I am a jealous God", that was written before Christ's "appearance" also. Logically this defense doesn't make any sense. The statement doesn't follow its original premise.

Theres a whole lot of fluff in that response. The writers of the Book of Numbers couldnt have known that God would come to earth as Jesus, thus stating that God isnt a man would make natural sense in the time line. God may be past present and future all at once, but man is stuck in the timeline. The Bible is man's story of God.

Again, this would be only true if God was committing the sin of envy. One needs to prove otherwise if there is such a claim of shortcoming. Standards are clearly set and biblical exegesis of the context shows that.

I think we can just let this one go as well

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I disagree, but thats ok. We'll just let that one go.

Actually no, I am not agreeing to let it go. The one who makes the claim backs it up... If not, then he has no argument.

Thats odd.

The definition of envy is?

When a person worships an Idol, that worship ISNT FOR GOD, its for the diety that the idol represents. Thus God has a desire for something that wasnt GIVEN to him freely regardless of who actually owned it. Thus God became the jealous God in the sinful way. Giant gaping hole in the Bibles Fallibility.

Unfortunately more nonsense that ignores the theological context. It is assumed that other deities exist besides Jehovah. It is shown to His people by God that those deities do not exist. This reason applies to the First, as well as to the Second commandment. The truth expressed in it was declared more fully to Moses when the name of Yahweh was proclaimed to him after he had interceded for Israel on account of the golden calf (Exodus 34:6-7) This shows in a most expressive manner the love of God to this people. He felt for them as the most affectionate husband could do for his spouse; and was jealous for their fidelity, because he willed their invariable happiness. Sadly, the practical "marriage" example didn't click. As a man that has reason to be jealous of his wife, and especially if he takes her and the adulterer (idolater) in the fact, it often costs them both their lives, being so enraged at such an insult upon him, and such a violation of the marriage bed; so the great Jehovah, the God of Israel, their head and husband, is represented, in order to deter from idolatry, or spiritual adultery, than which nothing could be more provoking to Him. The "person"s in question are those God called His own out of Egypt, proved them He existed and rescued them and He set them standards, to that point everything is concrete, but then the "person"s fall short of the power curve. Subtly it is argued here that it is necessary to "prove that (idol) deities didn't exist" and since God declares worship only belongs to Him, therefore the "I am somehow obliged to show how. Nope not taking that bait.

Lets go a step further with this. Lets just say I have it all wrong. The word “jealous” is translated in the Old Testament from the Hebrew word qin’ah, and in the New Testament from the Greek word zelos, where we get our word ZEALOUS. That gives us a mistranslation. Yet another gaping hole in the Bibles Fallibility.

How absurd can it get that we would take a Hebrew word, translate it into Greek, and from that translation, we jump to the root of an English word and state that there is a mistranslation? Etymological disaster. Here is the link that is used;

Apologetics Press - Love is not Jealous, So Why is God?

The truth is, however, sometimes jealously can be spoken of in a good sense. The word “jealous” is translated in the Old Testament from the Hebrew word qin’ah, and in the New Testament from the Greek word zelos. The root idea behind both words is that of “warmth” or “heat” (Forrester, 1996). The Hebrew word for jealousy carries with it the idea of “redness of the face that accompanies strong emotion” (Feinberg, 1942, p. 429)—whether right or wrong. Depending upon the usage of the word, it can be used to represent both a good and an evil passion. Three times in 1 Corinthians, Paul used this word in a good sense to encourage his brethren to “earnestly desire (zeeloúte)” spiritual gifts (12:31; 14:1,39). He obviously was not commanding the Corinthians to sin, but to do something that was good and worthwhile. Later, when writing to the church at Corinth, the apostle Paul was even more direct in showing how there was such a thing as “godly jealousy.” He stated:

I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it (2 Corinthians 11:2-4, emp. added).
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Jealous comes from zealous or zeal which means great intense desire or passion. The Hebrew word for jealous is “qanna” which has the same meaning as the English.

Theres a whole lot of fluff in that response. The writers of the Book of Numbers couldnt have known that God would come to earth as Jesus, thus stating that God isnt a man would make natural sense in the time line. God may be past present and future all at once, but man is stuck in the timeline. The Bible is man's story of God.

A complete non-sequitur. The original premise was "If God truly viewed jealousy as a bad thing in men then he himself is guilty of it." It was meant and unfortunately completely misunderstood that God is not a man that HE SINS -like a man-, it has nothing to do with Jesus. Simple as that. Instead of reading the Numbers verse in its context, we delved into Numbers' authors. A complete non-sequitur ...

I think we can just let this one go as well

Got used to it by now.

 

[JesuSlavex]

I find it funny that your responses take so many words to get your point across. We're just going to keep going here tit for tat for the next 15 years and we're not going to convince each other.

Lets just hope for your sake that your not wrong as you were in your old faith.

Your money is on the dresser, I'm done with you.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Lets just hope for your sake that your not wrong as you were in your old faith.Your money is on the dresser, I'm done with you.

Argument against the person, instead of the post.

 

[JesuSlavex]

Ya that mentality really is the fertile soil of self discovery and personal growth.

So ya, hows that been working out for you? Have you witnessed to people and washed the blood of the non believer from your hands? Have you really impacted someones life recently and lead them to the kingdom? Or do you prefer a Monty Python esque argument that touts honest debate but is merely a game of "yes it is, no it isnt"?

I got tired of arguing with you about 2 pages ago, but my debating nature got the best of me. To think I actually thought we were having a discussion instead of me throwing balloons at a brick wall.

Unfortunatly, I'm all out of balloons.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

More argumentum ad hominem. Debating is a formal method of interactive and position representational argument. Parties defend their position by offering arguments and proper evidence. Opposing parties offer counter-arguments and evidence. In this example, the party that fails to address the issues properly without counter argumentation ultimately can not hold his position and sidetracks to irrelevant issues such as attacking one's character... Argumentum Ad Hominem consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person (Have you witnessed to people and washed the blood of the non believer from your hands? Have you really impacted someones life recently and lead them to the kingdom?) making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim....

 

[JesuSlavex]

HAHA. Well look who was on the debate team.

Argumentum ad hominem is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of a person advocating the premise. My premise is that your a self righteous egomaniac who enjoys speaking down to people so you can stroke your own intellectual superiority, and your characteristically advocating my premise.

I've been contacted by members of this forum who are begging me to just open up and let you have it. Apparently, quite a few people just plain dont like you. But though I'm not a Christian I still live by a certain moral code thats not dictated by the Bible. So, I'm going to instead give you exactly what you want.

You win. You are far superior in your knowledge of the Bible and its inner workings than I am. Your light shines so bright I am temporarily blinded by your posts, only able to read them once my eyes adjust to your holiness. You fart pure joy and cry healing tears.

I shall now back away slowly as not to disrupt the holy spirit dwelling in your words.

 

[ido]

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