Yet nonetheless St. Basil the Great agreed with the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos,
I included the portion of the quote where he acknowledged holding to the view, and did the same with the quotes by Origen and Clement of Alexandria. I have referenced, so far, others as well, such as Justin Martyr, Chrysostom, The proto gospel of James, Epiphanius, etc.
which at the time was disputed only by the Antidicomarians and a few other related groups, which were duly catalogued by St. Epiphanios of Salamis, and phrased the above as hypothetical.
What you are doing is basically Patristic eisegesis. Like Scripture, the Church Fathers have to be read in context - one cannot take an individual saying of a church father and use it in isolation.
I have read the earliest literature in context. However, by the time we get to the fourth century, there is a massive amount of extant literature if one were to read it all in context, and i have not managed to do so yet.
But that is why I am going through and finding those statements that relate to the topic.
If your contention is that someone must have read all of the literature in total of the various fathers to glean anything from their specific statements on a given topic, then that is a noble standard. However, you may be speaking to only yourself in this thread, if indeed you have read all of Augustine, Chrysostom, Origen, etc. and even then more of their writings may yet be uncovered that are referred to , but not known.
I am not going to take the approach I must read everything they wrote before I can try to understand any of it. I simply don't have time.
I have stated I don't hold a view one way or the other. I am trying to look at what the various statements are saying, partly because some in the thread were earlier stating that only one person was disagreeing with it up to the fourth century.
The quotes so far suggest that there were more who disagreed with various aspects, and there were two main streams of understanding the details.
I have not disputed that by the fourth century it was the dominant position, clearly, and was later referenced in a council.
But I do not think it is fair to say I am engaging in eisegesis because I am looking at various quotes available, to see what they say. Eisegesis would be reading in my thoughts. I am trying to see what their thoughts were, and what commonalities and differences there are.
I understand that your approach would be to start with what the churches agree upon--I see that. But I am trying to understand how it got to that point, because I am not approaching it the way that you do. Moreover, there are two different approaches generally to tradition, development, etc. among Catholic and Orthodox churches, and I am trying to get a better handle on those, through this same discussion.
Because I do not object either way initially to either view, this seems like a good topic to do so. I am more doubtful of the view that Mary was sinless, so I am not using that as a test case.
Regarding this topic, and the particulars of the tradition, when I see that Jerome and Chrysostom seem to be agreed that they were relatives of James, but not children from a prior marriage, but that Origen cites the proto gospel of James in support of the other, etc. it tells me it is more complicated than simply a handed down tradition.
I have visited an orthodox service, watched them online, listened to Ancient Faith radio podcasts, read Kalistos Ware's accessible material, discussed with Orthodox, etc.
My father was Catholic.
But since the tradition I grew up in (Seventh-day Adventist) was rather hostile to the early church writings, and decidedly hostile towards Catholic theology, it has taken me time to familiarize myself with the primary source material. And I think it makes sense to read that material first on a given topic for what it says, when you have two different understandings of the particulars in that material.
I will try to get through some of the material posted as soon as possible. But this is the busiest week of the year for my company as well. I just wanted to ask the prompting questions so folks could outline their view for later reading.
