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David Lamb

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You make a good point in that righteousness does not come from works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ.
The part where we talk past each other is that we are discussing real righteousness, not imaginary. Christ calls us to deny ourselves and take up our cross. Paul asks how can anyone that is dead to sin live anylonger therein? Iraneus demonstration of the apostolic teaching shows Christians are called to self denial in order to follow Jesus here on earth, not just mouth His name and wait to be cleansed in heaven.
If we lack to power to do it and follow the straight and narrow path, then we cry out to God who will not only forgive us our sins but cleanse us from all unrighteousness


96. Wherefore also we need not the Law as a tutor. Behold, with the Father we speak, and in His presence we stand, being children in malice, and grown strong in all righteousness and soberness.266 For no longer shall the Law say, Do not commit adultery, to him who has no desire at all for another's wife; and Thou shalt not kill, to him who has put away from himself all anger and enmity; (and) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour s field or ox or ass,267 to those who have no care at all for earthly things, but store up the heavenly fruits: nor An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth,268 to him who counts no man his enemy, but all men his neighbours, and therefore cannot stretch out his hand at all for vengeance. It will not require tithes of him who consecrates all his possessions to God, leaving father and mother and all his kindred, and following the Word of God. And there will be no command to remain idle for one day of rest, to him who perpetually keeps sabbath,269 that is to |148 say, who in the temple of God, which is man's body, does service to God, and in every hour works righteousness. For I desire mercy, He saith, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. But the wicked that sacrificeth to me a calf is as if he should kill a dog; and that offereth fine flour, as though (he offered] swine's blood. But whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. And there is none other name of the Lord given under heaven whereby men are saved,270 save that of God, which is Jesus Christ the Son of God, to which also the demons are subject and evil spirits and all apostate energies, by the invocation of the name of Jesus Christ, crucified under Pontius Pilate.

266. i Cor. xiv. 20.

267. Ex. xx. 13 ff.; Deut. v. 17 ff.

268. Ex. xxi. 24.

269. 4 Just. M. Dial. 12...

270. Hos. vi. 6. Isa. lxvi. 3. Joel ii. 32. Cf. Acts iv. 12.
I don't like the word "real," in this context, as it seems to suggest that the righteousness Christ gives to His people is somehow sham or make-believe. That is certainly not the way Paul wrote of the righteousness which comes through faith in Christ. I do believe that having received that perfect righteousness in justification, the Christian should seek to live closer and closer to the Lord Jesus Christ, so that they are more and more actively obedient to God (sanctification).
 
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I don't like the word "real," in this context, as it seems to suggest that the righteousness Christ gives to His people is somehow sham or make-believe. That is certainly not the way Paul wrote of the righteousness which comes through faith in Christ. I do believe that having received that perfect righteousness in justification, the Christian should seek to live closer and closer to the Lord Jesus Christ, so that they are more and more actively obedient to God (sanctification).
Ok that is my point. That it is real. We all know some distort the message. We make excuses in that we can stay as filthy as dung but God can see the righteousness of Christ covering us. Thst is an error and is unbiblical
The Bible says if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgives us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. The word is cleanse, not leave filthy and put a mirror of perfection over it.
We believe with our heart that God raised Him from the dead, and Jesus says, where your treasure is, there will be your heart.
When we are born again, we are given three theological virtues at baptism that come from God alone. No human could obtain them through his own effort. These three are faith, hope, and charity.
Faith to know that God is and is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. The natural man cannot produce faith in himself. All the evidence seems to say that the natural world is random and meaningless. The natural man complains of suffering. How do we see a good God in the midst of suffering? God gives us the faith and examples. Fear not to suffer because look how I have suffered for you. The natural man does not see it, we have faith that it is true.
How? It is the gift of God
Hope that God will complete His work which He began in us. The natural man does not have hope. He sees the evil in the world and judges what is right in his own eyes. He knows what is good but does not seek to achieve it because he believes it is impossible, so he makes peace with sin and never desires to be free.
When we make no distinction between mortal and venial sin, there is no way of making progress in the spiritual life. We are in the natural world and our spirits are warring with our flesh. If all sin is equal, we can get stuck in the habit of mortal sin, because we do not take it seriously, and then begin to presume the mercy of God. We lose the fear of the Lord and continue to offend Him greatly. If we have the view in our hearts that some sins are mortal, we cry out to God and ask to be purged. When we have been purged of mortal sin, we see the horror of our venial sins revealed and lead a spiritual battle of continually being purged of sin. That is the gold tried in the fire spoken of in Revelation. To ignore it is to be as Laodicea. God says that the spiritual battle requires our consent. He does not force. As Revelation also says He stands at the door and knocks. We have to open the door. How do we do that? He tells us to ask, seek and knock. Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you. We are not just piles of dung that await a coating of Christ. He is a cleansing fire
The third gift given when we are born again is Charity, which is the love of God and scorn of the world. It is the joy to instantly obey His command that He gives to us. Deny yourself and take up your cross. He who loves his life will lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake will save it
A natural man does not deny himself anything or makes excuses why he cannot stop an evil habit. He loves his life more than the path God has called him to walk. Satan offers us the path of wealth, vain glory and pride. Jesus sets before us the path of poverty, contempt and humility. No natual man would dare chose to take it, ifGod had not given him faith and hope. Even those with faith and hope can be overcome with fear and chose the easy path and think they are alright, yet when the see Jesus they cry Lord, Lord and He says I never knew you, away from me you that work iniquity. The true path is the one Jesus walked, as He says a servant is not greater than his master. When we deny ourselves He asks us to walk in His footsteps. He says the world hated me, they will hate you also
They called Him a blasphemer, He was beaten, spit on mocked insulted and crucified. Shall we expect any different?
They say to us that we cannot follow in Jesus footsteps because it is impossible, you are as filthy rags and cannot work your way to heaven. Go that way and you are a sabbath breaker and carry the mark of the beast. Obey your elders? Ha ha. We obey only out own consciences.
I say ok, well I am going this way way because God told me to. He say I desire obedience rather than sacrifice, so I study the apostolic teaching as they were marked with tongues of fire and Jesus told me the sign of the rock on which He will build His Church. He has given the bread of life for my nourishment and breathed on His apostles to give them the power to forgive sins and has taught me the ways of righteousness and the path to purge me of sin to prepare for eternity. Why should I walk anywhere else?
1 Corinthians tells us that we are not saved by faith alone. If I have faith to move mountains and have not charity, I am nothing. No being born again is not faith alone, rather faith, hope and charity with the greatest being charity
Oh I have tried the path of faith alone. It doesn’t work. I would rather walk the path of Jesus’ footsteps He has called me to walk. All I have to do is trust and obey. Keep asking, seeking and knocking and God continues to purge me as I surrender to Him. Not my will but His be done
 
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How much "real righteousness" does God require from His people?
You get as much as you ask for. That is how we define poor in spirit. Keep asking. If someone is like laodicea and says I am rich and have need of nothing, God says He will vomit that person out of His mouth. To the poor He gives generously but the rich are turned away empty
Buy the gold tried in the fire, don’t sit around like the foolish virgins and have no oil when the bridegroom arrives
 
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bbbbbbb

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You get as much as you ask for. That is how we define poor in spirit. Keep asking. If someone is like laodicea and says I am rich and have need of nothing, God says He will vomit that person out of His mouth. To the poor He gives generously but the rich are turned away empty
Buy the gold tried in the fire, don’t sit around like the foolish virgins and have no oil when the bridegroom arrives
That did not answer my question.

How much "real righteousness" does God require from His people?
 
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prodromos

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That did not answer my question.

How much "real righteousness" does God require from His people?
How much are you willing to strive for? God has given us everything. How much do you think we should offer back to God? The bare minimum? The best we are able to offer?
 
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bbbbbbb

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How much are you willing to strive for? God has given us everything. How much do you think we should offer back to God? The bare minimum? The best we are able to offer?
Once again, you did not answer the question. The question is not how much are you willing and able to do to mollify an angry God, but how much "real righteousness" does God require from His people for them to be accepted in His sight.
 
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stevevw

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There is a lot of early artwork with Mary with her foot on the head of the serpent; but it seems that Jerome made a mistake in his translation of the text for Gen 3:15 in regards to the sex of who crushes the head of the serpent. In the Hebrew, the verb for crush is singular masculine and so most modern translations have pointed the crushing back to Christ, which fits better with the rest of the text of the Bible. This does not destroy Catholic's veneration of Mary as the perfect disciple; but we cannot follow Christ without seeking the truth.
Is it perhaps talking about Mary in the sense of it being her seed as this was a metaphor for the virgin birth. But her seed which is Christ will crush the heel and head of Satan. Just as Adams seed was made fallen by Eve, Marys seed will restore us and defeat Satan for good.
 
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prodromos

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Once again, you did not answer the question. The question is not how much are you willing and able to do to mollify an angry God,
That's pretty disgusting of you to suggest I was even implying such a thing.
but how much "real righteousness" does God require from His people for them to be accepted in His sight.
you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength​

Do you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength if you are not striving for all righteousness?
 
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bbbbbbb

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That's pretty disgusting of you to suggest I was even implying such a thing.

you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength​

Do you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength if you are not striving for all righteousness?
Once again, sadly, you failed to inform us precisely what God requires from man in terms of "real righteousness" as defined by boughtwithaprice in his post #419 where he commenced with the following -

You make a good point in that righteousness does not come from works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ.
The part where we talk past each other is that we are discussing real righteousness, not imaginary.


Your answer this time is considerably better, however, in that you cited God's commandment. Do you think that God requires complete and perfect obedience to this commandment in order to achieve "real righteousness".
 
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The Liturgist

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Once again, sadly, you failed to inform us precisely what God requires from man in terms of "real righteousness" as defined by boughtwithaprice in his post #419 where he commenced with the following -

You make a good point in that righteousness does not come from works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ.
The part where we talk past each other is that we are discussing real righteousness, not imaginary.


Your answer this time is considerably better, however, in that you cited God's commandment. Do you think that God requires complete and perfect obedience to this commandment in order to achieve "real righteousness".

The answer to this question is readily available from any introductory text on Orthodox soteriology. For example, The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by the 8th century scholar St. John of Damascus.
 
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prodromos

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Once again, sadly, you failed to inform us precisely what God requires from man in terms of "real righteousness" as defined by boughtwithaprice in his post #419 where he commenced with the following -

You make a good point in that righteousness does not come from works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ.
The part where we talk past each other is that we are discussing real righteousness, not imaginary.


Your answer this time is considerably better, however, in that you cited God's commandment. Do you think that God requires complete and perfect obedience to this commandment in order to achieve "real righteousness".
So no apology for the disgusting inference?

God requires us to remain on the narrow path, always moving towards Him to the best of our means (all our heart, soul, mind and strength), repenting whenever we fall by the wayside, getting back up and moving forward again. Always knowing that we are never worthy, yet always trusting in God's mercy.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The answer to this question is readily available from any introductory text on Orthodox soteriology. For example, The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by the 8th century scholar St. John of Damascus.
Thanks. However, I do not possess "any introductory text on Orthodox soteriology" and, thus, remain quite ignorant.
 
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bbbbbbb

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So no apology for the disgusting inference?

God requires us to remain on the narrow path, always moving towards Him to the best of our means (all our heart, soul, mind and strength), repenting whenever we fall by the wayside, getting back up and moving forward again. Always knowing that we are never worthy, yet always trusting in God's mercy.
Is not God angry at sin? Is not the wrath of God to be unleashed at the Last Day against sinners?

Your answer is precisely what I understand most Christians to provide. In this scenario God does not have a precise or absolute standard of "real righteousness" but one which seems to be based on some sort of sliding scale in which an individual does his best and then relies on God to make up the difference with His mercy. One of the problems with this scenario is that it cannot account for those who believe they have "real righteousness" but do not, in fact, have "real righteousness". For example, I will pick on the RCC's, since neither you nor myself are members of that denomination. It is a mortal sin, according to the RCC, to fail to attend weekly mass. I have encountered many excellent, moral, ethical, and committed Catholics who, for various reasons, do not attend mass each and every Sunday and yet who are convinced that they possess "real righteousness". They also fall back on the rationale that God's mercy is such that they will find their way into heaven in due time via Purgatory.
 
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Thanks. However, I do not possess "any introductory text on Orthodox soteriology" and, thus, remain quite ignorant.
Now you do: An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by St John Damascene - the Complete Text

If you prefer it in an e-reader friendly format: An Exact Exposition Of The Orthodox Faith : St John of Damascus : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

If you prefer it in print: On the Orthodox Faith: Volume 3 of the Fount of Knowledge (PPS 62)

Edit: I've found that this is available in print cheaper from SAGOM Press, whose books I generally prefer to the SVS Press Popular Patristics series: Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith
 
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The Liturgist

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Thanks. However, I do not possess "any introductory text on Orthodox soteriology" and, thus, remain quite ignorant.

Is not God angry at sin? Is not the wrath of God to be unleashed at the Last Day against sinners?

Your answer is precisely what I understand most Christians to provide. In this scenario God does not have a precise or absolute standard of "real righteousness" but one which seems to be based on some sort of sliding scale in which an individual does his best and then relies on God to make up the difference with His mercy. One of the problems with this scenario is that it cannot account for those who believe they have "real righteousness" but do not, in fact, have "real righteousness". For example, I will pick on the RCC's, since neither you nor myself are members of that denomination. It is a mortal sin, according to the RCC, to fail to attend weekly mass. I have encountered many excellent, moral, ethical, and committed Catholics who, for various reasons, do not attend mass each and every Sunday and yet who are convinced that they possess "real righteousness". They also fall back on the rationale that God's mercy is such that they will find their way into heaven in due time via Purgatory.

Alas, that’s incorrect. Your criticism of our soteriology amounts to a straw-man, since you are mischaracterizing it based on a misinterpretation of what @prodromos is saying. Indeed I would say that Orthodox soteriology is almost the opposite of what you describe in every conceivable way. The Orthodox Christian throws himself before God in literal prostration begging for mercy owing to an acute awareness of our sinful nature. Comparisons to Western soteriology fail because Orthodox hamartiology, while anti-Pelagian, is also non-Augustinian, instead relying on St. John Cassian, whose soteriology used to be prevalent in the Roman church before the drift into Scholastic theology which led to their alienation from us (Roman Catholics regard St. John of Damascus as the last Patristic theologian whereas we have Church Fathers from the 19th and 20th century, so for us the Patristic era never ended, and we aim to do theology in the same way as St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, St. Gregory Nazianzus, St. Athanasius the Great, St. Basil the Great, St. John Chrysostom and St. John the Theologian, using the same liturgical texts, the same prayers and simply rejecting the various changes like Purgatory and Papal Supremacy that emerged from Scholastic Theology’s reassessment of Christian doctrine.

Insofar as Protestants reacted against the Scholastic theology of the Renaissance era Roman church, and did not have easy access to information on the Eastern Orthodox Church, and at the time the Oriental Orthodox were impossibly distant and obscure, and incorrectly regarded by the few who knew of them as heretics (with the exception of Martin Luther, interestingly), it would not be until much later when Anglican-Orthodox dialogue starting in the 17th century and continuing in the 18th century with John Wesley and in the 19th century with various Anglo Catholic exchanges with the Orthodox that the West regained access to Orthodox theology, which led to the phenomenon of Western converts to Orthodoxy starting among Anglo Catholics (Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, memory eternal) was actually rather late to that party by about 50 years), which then became more generalized and has now become something of a cultural phenomenon.

But there is no cause for consternation, because the text I mentioned is readily available online as are all other Patristic texts, from websites such as Christian Classics Ethereal Library as well as various Orthodox-specific sites. And every Christian should have knowledge of St. John of Damascus.

Of course the most definitive guide to salvation in the Orthodox Church is in our liturgy, and right now, in Lent, our service books are positively brimming with Soteriological details. If you read the texts for our services of Baptism, Chrismation, the Divine Liturgy (Holy Communion), Holy Unction and the Pannikhida, or memorial service, and the burial service, along with the Triodion, which is the hymnal and service book containing the propers for Lent and Holy Week, and the Pentecostarion, which contains the propers for Pascha (Easter Sunday), Antipascha (Thomas Sunday, also known as Low Sunday, the week after Pascha), the Ascension, Pentecost Sunday and All Saints Day*, you would obtain complete expertise of the soteriology of the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is basically identical to that of the Oriental Orthodox. The main advantage is that all of the Eastern Orthodox service books are now available online for free, whereas those of the Ethiopian and Armenian churches have not been completely translated into English, the Coptic texts outside the Coptic Reader app, which is complete and impressive, are kind of hit or miss, and the Syriac Orthodox LRD app, published by the Malankara Orthodox, is impressive, but does not contain a complete translation of all Syriac Orthodox hymns in the Beth Gazo (the “House of Treasure”), and thus is missing some relevant content and additionally is abbreviated in other respects as well.

So by reading our liturgies, one can attain a level of knowledge of Orthodox doctrine that surpasses that of even many Orthodox. More than any other church, we believe in Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi, and thus the entire experience of Orthodoxy is encoded in books such as the Typicon, the Triodion, Pentecostarion, Octoechos, Euchologion, Liturgikon, Menaion, etc, and these have been freely available online in multiple translations for some time.

Indeed if one has an account with the Internet Archive’s online library services for the Print Disabled one can access the famed “Nasser Five Pounder”, the Divine Prayers and Services of the Orthodox Catholic Church of Christ by Fr. Seraphim Nasser, which is reknowned for its compactness, its weight, as well as its completeness; while not as complete as reading the entire Lenten Triodion, it has the most important parts of it, and the Pentecostarion, and the most important feasts of the Festal Menaion, so that many a parish has historically used it for all of its English language services in the absence of more complete volumes.

I should also note that since most Orthodox hymns that one would find in the Nasser Five Pounder or the other books I’ve mentioned were composed between 400 and 1,000 AD, and some are older, they represent prime examples of Patristic literature unadulterated by post-Patristic theological influences. They are as deserving a place in the library of Patristic texts as much as anything written by St. Augustine of Hippo, but unfortunately despite being the living liturgy of nearly 300 million people, including some of the most persecuted Christians in the world for the past few centuries, in places like the former Soviet Union and Syria, they languish in a state of undeserved academic obscurity along with nearly all the writings of the Armenian, Georgian and Ethiopian Fathers and most of the Syriac Fathers, and frankly, most of the Greek and Latin fathers as well, since aside from St. Augustine, most early church fathers are not well read outside of the Eastern churches and the seminaries of those Western churches that take a particular interest in Patristics.


*This we celeebrate the Sunday after Pentecost since Pentecost and the Feast of the Holy Trinity were, like Christmas and Theophany (the Baptism of Christ, sometimes called Epiphany), the same thing in the Early Church, and just as the Armenians still celebrate the Nativity on Theophany (January 6th, or January 18th in Jerusalem where they and all other Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Christians use the Julian calendar, leaving the Roman Catholics and Protestants to use the Gregorian Calendar, the Orthodox still celebrate the Feast of the Holy Trinity on Pentecost Sunday together with the Feast of the Holy Spirit, while having an additional day dedicated to the Holy Spirit on Pentecost Monday.

** featuring only the most frequently used of the 86 Anaphoras (Eucharistic prayers) used by the Syriac Orthodox, who hold the record (the Maronites, before Vatican II, had over 50, but now have six, and the Ethiopians have fourteen, and the Armenians used to have fourteen but now only have one, and the Copts and the Church of the East each have three, with the Eastern Orthodox having two in common use plus the Presanctified Liturgy, plus one less commonly used liturgy, and a Presanctified version of that liturgy, two rarely used liturgies, and several Western Rite liturgies which are mostly based on either the Anglican or pre-schism Roman Rite liturgies.
 
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Once again, you did not answer the question. The question is not how much are you willing and able to do to mollify an angry God, but how much "real righteousness" does God require from His people for them to be accepted in His sight.
The only thing that God has given us is our will. He gave us a choice. We can say yes or no. Anything less than a complete yes is a no
When we contemplate it, He does not require anything from us, for while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. All that is required is our yes
In order to say yes, we have to deny ourselves and take up our cross, and submit to Him as obedient children.
The question is, will we submit to God or what our own mind has conceived as God? If we submit to our own mind, can we really say we have submitted to God?
 
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David Lamb

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Ok that is my point. That it is real. We all know some distort the message. We make excuses in that we can stay as filthy as dung but God can see the righteousness of Christ covering us. Thst is an error and is unbiblical
I am not talking about excuse-making. I am saying that the righteousness God requires is perfect, and we don't have perfect righteousness. This isn't an error or unbiblical. Paul wrote:

“Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;” (Php 3:8-9 NKJV)
The Bible says if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgives us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. The word is cleanse, not leave filthy and put a mirror of perfection over it.
True, but we have to come back to Him regularly, confessing more sins. Again, I think of Paul:

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.” (Ro 7:18-19 NKJV)
We believe with our heart that God raised Him from the dead, and Jesus says, where your treasure is, there will be your heart.
Yes, I agree with that.
When we are born again, we are given three theological virtues at baptism that come from God alone. No human could obtain them through his own effort. These three are faith, hope, and charity.
When we are born again, not when we are baptised.
Faith to know that God is and is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. The natural man cannot produce faith in himself. All the evidence seems to say that the natural world is random and meaningless. The natural man complains of suffering. How do we see a good God in the midst of suffering? God gives us the faith and examples. Fear not to suffer because look how I have suffered for you. The natural man does not see it, we have faith that it is true.
How? It is the gift of God
I agree with that.
Hope that God will complete His work which He began in us. The natural man does not have hope. He sees the evil in the world and judges what is right in his own eyes. He knows what is good but does not seek to achieve it because he believes it is impossible, so he makes peace with sin and never desires to be free.
When we make no distinction between mortal and venial sin, there is no way of making progress in the spiritual life.
Nonsense. Where in the bible do you read about venial sins and mortal sins, let alone some necessity to make a distinction between moral and venial sins in order to make spiritual progress?
We are in the natural world and our spirits are warring with our flesh. If all sin is equal, we can get stuck in the habit of mortal sin, because we do not take it seriously, and then begin to presume the mercy of God. We lose the fear of the Lord and continue to offend Him greatly. If we have the view in our hearts that some sins are mortal, we cry out to God and ask to be purged. When we have been purged of mortal sin, we see the horror of our venial sins revealed and lead a spiritual battle of continually being purged of sin. That is the gold tried in the fire spoken of in Revelation. To ignore it is to be as Laodicea. God says that the spiritual battle requires our consent. He does not force. As Revelation also says He stands at the door and knocks. We have to open the door. How do we do that? He tells us to ask, seek and knock. Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you. We are not just piles of dung that await a coating of Christ. He is a cleansing fire
The third gift given when we are born again is Charity, which is the love of God and scorn of the world. It is the joy to instantly obey His command that He gives to us. Deny yourself and take up your cross. He who loves his life will lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake will save it
A natural man does not deny himself anything or makes excuses why he cannot stop an evil habit. He loves his life more than the path God has called him to walk. Satan offers us the path of wealth, vain glory and pride. Jesus sets before us the path of poverty, contempt and humility. No natual man would dare chose to take it, ifGod had not given him faith and hope. Even those with faith and hope can be overcome with fear and chose the easy path and think they are alright, yet when the see Jesus they cry Lord, Lord and He says I never knew you, away from me you that work iniquity. The true path is the one Jesus walked, as He says a servant is not greater than his master. When we deny ourselves He asks us to walk in His footsteps. He says the world hated me, they will hate you also
They called Him a blasphemer, He was beaten, spit on mocked insulted and crucified. Shall we expect any different?
They say to us that we cannot follow in Jesus footsteps because it is impossible, you are as filthy rags and cannot work your way to heaven.
They are right. We cannot work our way to heaven. If we could, we would not need a Saviour.
Go that way and you are a sabbath breaker and carry the mark of the beast. Obey your elders? Ha ha. We obey only out own consciences.
I say ok, well I am going this way way because God told me to. He say I desire obedience rather than sacrifice, so I study the apostolic teaching as they were marked with tongues of fire and Jesus told me the sign of the rock on which He will build His Church. He has given the bread of life for my nourishment and breathed on His apostles to give them the power to forgive sins and has taught me the ways of righteousness and the path to purge me of sin to prepare for eternity. Why should I walk anywhere else?
1 Corinthians tells us that we are not saved by faith alone. If I have faith to move mountains and have not charity, I am nothing. No being born again is not faith alone, rather faith, hope and charity with the greatest being charity
But 1 Corinthians does not say that charity saves us. Rather, If we claim to be saved, and do not have charity (in the sense of self-sacrificial love), our claims are in vain.
Oh I have tried the path of faith alone. It doesn’t work. I would rather walk the path of Jesus’ footsteps He has called me to walk. All I have to do is trust and obey. Keep asking, seeking and knocking and God continues to purge me as I surrender to Him. Not my will but His be done
Faith leads to works. The works don't save, but should result from having been saved:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:8-10 NKJV)
 
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I am not talking about excuse-making. I am saying that the righteousness God requires is perfect, and we don't have perfect righteousness.

That’s very true (with a few fleeting exceptions like the Theotokos or St. Elias), although we can obtain it in the life of the world to come, and Theosis, or Entire Sanctification as Wesley called it, is about orienting ourselves in that direction.
 
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You have touched a raw nerve here. Are certain sinners better than other sinners? Does God make distinctions and discriminate among His saints?
From a Catholic perspective, Mary is the greatest of all the saints, yes.
 
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That’s very true (with a few fleeting exceptions like the Theotokos or St. Elias), although we can obtain it in the life of the world to come, and Theosis, or Entire Sanctification as Wesley called it, is about orienting ourselves in that direction.
Amen, brother!
 
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