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You probably should have read the link @Valletta posted before making your latter comment. It would have saved you making a petty, baseless, false claim.All of Catholic tradition that I have ever heard says Our Lady died first and then was assumed into Heaven.
In fact, some Orthodox Christians believe that Mary did not die.
See how easy it is to make such a claim
I read it. It does not reference the Orthodox who believe Mary did not die.
There are no Orthodox who believe Mary did not die, whereas there are many Catholics who do believe that. Your claim was false, mine is not.
You can't even insult me with the right wordWell you can't argue with your omnipotence
And,
This is not entirely correct, as the Council of Trent stated: "Moreover, this sacred and holy Synod,—considering that no small utility may accrue to the Church of God, if it be made known which out of all the Latin editions, now in circulation, of the sacred books, is to be held as authentic,—ordains and declares, that the said old and vulgate edition, which, by the lengthened usage of so many years, has been approved of in the Church, be, in public lectures, disputations, sermons and expositions, held as authentic; and that no one is to dare, or presume to reject it under any pretext whatever." This goes for Eastern Catholics as well, who historically did use the Vulgate [e.g. the Syro-Malabar Church, which used the Douay-Rheims], as its de facto official Bible. Also note Pius XII's Divino Afflante Spiritu (#22): “Wherefore this authority of the Vulgate in matters of doctrine by no means prevents - nay rather today it almost demands - either the corroboration and confirmation of this same doctrine by the original texts or the having recourse on any and every occasion to the aid of these same texts, by which the correct meaning of the Sacred Letters is everywhere daily made more clear and evident. Nor is it forbidden by the decree of the Council of Trent to make translations into the vulgar tongue, even directly from the original texts themselves, for the use and benefit of the faithful and for the better understanding of the divine word…” (Pope Pius XII, Divino Afflante Spiritu #22, Sept. 30, 1943).
OFFICIALLY, the RCC does not teach whether Mary did or didn't die. Other than her body, at the end of her life, was taken up to heaven. As far as I know, many theologians believed she died.
What do you mean liturgical calendar?
And it was just as official in the 7th Century when it was celebrated as the "Dormition of Mary" in Rome. You do understand what is meant by "dormition" in the Church do you not?
You're back again. Rather than accept the answer from me you did not want to hear, you suggested my comment about ex cathedra be discussed in another thread. Let me summarize. If I understand you correctly, you argue that since a feast day with the Eastern name "Dormition" was adopted by the West that makes Mary's death official Catholic dogma. The problem with your thinking is that the Catholic Church does not officially pronounce dogma by the standards you wish to impose upon the Church. If you study history you will find that questions about whether Mary was even bodily assumed into Heaven were still being heavily debated in the West in the late 800s. The dogma of the Assumption, the last ex cathedra statement from a pope, was finally made in 1950.
And the official statement only says Mary was assumed bodily into heaven. It says nothing about her dying or not first. Which means it just doesn’t say. Nothing more.
It does, it just doesn't include her death in its final definition:
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum.
"It's not dogma" is a very different claim than "it says nothing about her dying," although I don't think the position that a doctrine isn't dogmatic unless a pope explicitly says so could be defended either.
Good grief. The Catholic position is that we have chosen not to make into dogma whether Mary died and was then assumed into heaven or was taken alive into heaven, just that one way or the other she was assumed into heaven. You have your dogma that excludes anything the Catholic Church might ever say. Fine. I'm not Orthodox. Do your thing. Just don't invent straw-man stuff like 'a doctrine isn't dogmatic unless a pope explicitly says so' to shoot down your enemies. Meanwhile I'll stick with Epiphanius of Salamis who said "I am not saying that she remained immortal. But neither am I affirming that she died." Of course you know better, being Orthodox and all.
You were the one who said the Dormition wasn't dogmatic because it was only stated repeatedly in the body of Muneficentissimus Deus, rather than its final definition, not me. I didn't even bring up the category of dogma.
I don't know where this hostility is coming from. I didn't bring up anything about dogmatics, and I don't claim to know more than you. At the same time, I can point out that the definition of the Assumption isn't silent on Mary's death.
Did I say that or did you just say that I did? Or did someone else say it?
Could you possibly agree that the conclusion of the definition of the Assumption in 1950 requires neither believing Mary died first nor requires believing that she did not die before being assumed? It is not part of definitive Catholic teaching one way or the other. Which means that you can look down on us all you want but it's pretty much over nothing.
As a Catholic faithful to everything to what the Church teaches, I personally DO believe Mary indeed died, and was later assumed into heaven, but that is not dogma.
