A question for atheists and agnostics

[pantless rationalist]

Genuses are defined in their differences in perfection

I'm not sure what you mean by this use of the term "genus". A genus is a class of object, individuals, &c. that share some common trait. What does it have to do with "differences in perfection"?

but God is all genuses. He contains infinitely all perfection.
Perfection is the status of being the best possible form of oneself.

Are you defining or observing that "God is all genuses"? The Christian god, or whatever god potentially exists?
If the "best possible form of oneself" is unattainable, how is it determined what the best possible form is?

 

[Nathan45]

What, that perfect is the best form of ourselves possible?

How would you determine that something is or is not perfect? Do you simply mean complete?

 

[TheBear]

I referenced my belief in one sentence.
Yes, I have a belief.
Referencing it does not invalidate other traits.

My point was that your reference to it was off topic from the OP question. It was a change of subject. The OP asks about god in a general sense, not the specifics of a god that you believe in.

I stated earlier God is neither He nor She nor It nor Bozo, it is just a title.

Look up - "anthropomorphic".

 

[TeddyKGB]

Absolute nothing.

Well, we're starting with the background of space-time, so "absolute nothing" is unattainable from the get-go.

I was saying that is has a cause, because without the energy particle, the virtual particle would not exist, so then the coming into existence requires the particle be there. So, it has a cause?

No. It has a source and a destination, but there is nothing to identify as causing the appearance of the boson.

I obviously don't have a great grasp on the science, but is there anything scientifically that would state otherwise?

Not as far as I know.

 

[Nathan45]

But from whence does the student learn?
Book, the internet nowadays. But if there is no one to write the book or website, the student will not receive the knowledge.
Being self-taught is still being taught. The knowledge must be passed on to be known.

It is not hard to learn new things just by thinking about them or working through it logically. You don't need to crack a book, just put on your thinking cap.

 

[Nathan45]

Anyway before this thread gets too heated i'd like to thank MaxP for stepping into our little lion's den here. Most wouldn't bother.

I know you're hideously outnumbered, responding to 8 people at once all contradicting what you say.

Not saying I agree with you but I admire your fortitude Or maybe stubbornness?

 

[MaxP]

I'm not sure what you mean by this use of the term "genus". A genus is a class of object, individuals, &c. that share some common trait. What does it have to do with "differences in perfection"?

Well, what a thing is, not that it is, stems from its genus(btw, you're using the biological definition of genus; I use the logical, where there is no common trait between genera). Different genera are different due to what they are being different. Their levels of perfection are different. God is no genus. God is infinite perfection, and all the genera. God is existence.

Are you defining or observing that "God is all genuses"? The Christian god, or whatever god potentially exists?

God is existence.

If the "best possible form of oneself" is unattainable, how is it determined what the best possible form is?

The best possible form of oneself is not unattainable however, just in this life it is. So we strive to make it so we can be the best possible form of oneself in the next.

 

[MaxP]

Anyway before this thread gets too heated i'd like to thank MaxP for stepping into our little lion's den here. Most wouldn't bother.

I know you're hideously outnumbered, responding to 8 people at once all contradicting what you say.

Not saying I agree with you but I admire your fortitude Or maybe stubbornness?

I'm new. I'm sure you'll wear me down.

 

[MaxP]

It is not hard to learn new things just by thinking about them or working through it logically. You don't need to crack a book, just put on your thinking cap.

Things can be discerned, but progress would be nonexistent if every generation had to start by inventing the wheel.

 

[Nathan45]

Things can be discerned, but progress would be nonexistent if every generation had to start by inventing the wheel.

i agree, but the student doesn't learn everything from the teacher, he'll build on the knowledge of the teacher with additional things he discovers himself. So each generation is more knowledgeable than the next.

 

[MaxP]

Well, we're starting with the background of space-time, so "absolute nothing" is unattainable from the get-go.

Yes... I didn't realize it, but I suppose even if one could prove something could come into existence with no physical stimulae, it wouldn't prove something could come into existence based on nothing, would it?
Hence origin being in the realm of philosophy.

No. It has a source and a destination, but there is nothing to identify as causing the appearance of the boson.

But even though it has no apparent cause, it has certain factors that must be present, like the presence of a quark?
So logically, there must be something happening with the quark to cause the boson.

Not as far as I know.

Thank you.

 

[MaxP]

i agree, but the student doesn't learn everything from the teacher, he'll build on the knowledge of the teacher with additional things he discovers himself. So each generation is more knowledgeable than the next.

Yes. But keeping in mind the object of the analogy, God. Suppose the Teacher has already reached the pinnacle of human development(assuming there is one and it is possible to reach it).


PS. I'm surprised at the lack of real, substantive, healthy debate from Christians on here. It all appears to break down to Christians throwing Scripture interpretations at each other.

 

[Garyzenuf]

So we strive to make it so we can be the best possible form of oneself in the next.

...the next?

*

 

[Nathan45]

Yes. But keeping in mind the object of the analogy, God. Suppose the Teacher has already reached the pinnacle of human development(assuming there is one and it is possible to reach it).

why suppose this?

PS. I'm surprised at the lack of real, substantive, healthy debate from Christians on here. It all appears to break down to Christian throwing Scripture interpretations at each other.

Do you mean on just the ethics and morality board or the whole christianforums.com?
They don't let me post on general theology or christian apologetics anymore

 

[MaxP]

...the next?

*

The life with God, I could say. That would get into the human soul though, a rather large diversion.

 

[TheBear]

PS. I'm surprised at the lack of real, substantive, healthy debate from Christians on here. It all appears to break down to Christians throwing Scripture interpretations at each other.

Unfortunately, many of the Christians here have their hands out with the palm facing the skeptics, thinking - "Talk to the scripture, because the mind ain't listening!". At least you strive to think outside the box.

 

[MaxP]

why suppose this?

Because God is perfect.

Do you mean on just the ethics and morality board or the whole christianforums.com?

I mean in whatever topic two Christians of opposing world view or denomination post.

They don't let me post on general theology or christian apologetics anymore

Hahaha I feel its a shame there can't be more non-christian - christian debate.

 

[MaxP]

Unfortunately, many of the Christians here have their hands out with the palm facing the skeptics, thinking - "Talk to the scripture, because the mind ain't listening!". At least you strive to think outside the box.

Thing is - I'm not even thinking outside the box.
Most of my arguments are Thomist, and he was around in the 1200's.
So it would seem Christian thought has devolved after the Reformation.

 

[Garyzenuf]

Hence origin being in the realm of philosophy..

As it probably always, (yes always), will be.

*

 

[TheBear]

Thing is - I'm not even thinking outside the box.
Most of my arguments are Thomist, and he was around in the 1200's.
So it would seem Christian thought has devolved after the Reformation.

(the 'box' being scripture only)

I can't even give you a compliment without it being opposed.

Ah, well.