A question.... am i missing something?

[Emma!]

Is the 'main-stream' view of the end times that there will be a time when the devil is 'bound up' and then 1000 years of peace and then he is 'released' again? (taken from Rev 2)

If so...why would the enemy need to be 'bound up' when he has ALREADY been defeated?? How can he be any more powerless and defeated than what Jesus did?

This seems like it does not fit what the Bible says so am i missing something major here?

Thanks for any insite into this Question.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Read 2Thessalonians 2:1-12
and also remember what Peter wrote - "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about seeking whom he may devour; Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world." 1Peter 5:8-9

 

[Breetai]

There are two main views, both very different from each other.

Amillennialism (Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvinists, etc.):

the 1000 years just means "a long period of time", and is a metaphor for the time between Christ's first and second coming. Satan has been defeated, banned from heaven and his power is bound; it is weakened until the time right before Jesus comes back. The final judgement occurs immediately after.

Premillennialism (Baptists, non-denominational, Pentecostal, etc.):

Jesus returns and then Satan is bound for a literal 1000 years. After the 1000 years, he will be let loose for a little while until Jesus says "enough!". The final judgement occurs after the 1000 years.


Amillennialism comes from a more figurative, or metaphoric, reading of the Bible. Premillennialism comes from a more literal reading of it.


Read this link: http://www.christianforums.com/t1168117-amillennialism-postmillennialism-and-premillennialism-what-are-they.html.

 

[PaladinValer]

Presbyterians are Wesleyans? :scratchhead:

Also, I know a lot of the Wesleyan Traditionalists (Wesleyans, Methodists, or members of the Church of the Nazarene) in the Wesleyan section of CF who might disagree with you there, Breetai.

Satan is here, on Earth, right now. He has no power except what power God gives him. He's been defeated, but that doesn't mean his role hasn't ended.

 

[Dad Ernie]

Is the 'main-stream' view of the end times that there will be a time when the devil is 'bound up' and then 1000 years of peace and then he is 'released' again? (taken from Rev 2)

If so...why would the enemy need to be 'bound up' when he has ALREADY been defeated?? How can he be any more powerless and defeated than what Jesus did?

This seems like it does not fit what the Bible says so am i missing something major here?

Thanks for any insite into this Question.

Greetings Emma,

The following shows a war in heaven AFTER the Lord was taken up to the Father and Satan was cast down to the earth:

Rev 12:9-12 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

He is currently being restrained, but will in the last days be released to wage war against the saints of God:

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

and at the end of the Great Tribulation:

Rev 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Is that what you were asking for?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Breetai]

Presbyterians are Wesleyans? :scratchhead:

Opps. My bad. I haven't dated too many Presbyterian girls yet.

I'll just fix that up a bit...

 

[PaladinValer]

If you did, was it predestined to happen?

 

[BarbB]

My various researches say that humans will still exist during the millenium and will still be having children. Thus, the earth will still contain the potential of evil. The devil will be loosed at the end of 1,000 years to collect his new followers for all of them to be thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[BarbB]

Opps. My bad. I haven't dated too many Presbyterian girls yet.

I'll just fix that up a bit...

You mean fix your post or start dating Presbyterian girls?

 

[Emma!]

Thank you all for your input, im just not sure that i believe that what Jesus did, wasnt enough to defeat and render the enemy powerless... im not sure.
I have been looking into all this stuff (diff views) including 'partial preturest' (sp)? I think so far 'partial preturest' is making the most sense... still looking though.

Thank you all

 

[Breetai]

If you did, was it predestined to happen?

No, because I'm not a Calvinist.

You mean fix your post or start dating Presbyterian girls?

Yes.

Thank you all for your input, im just not sure that i believe that what Jesus did, wasnt enough to defeat and render the enemy powerless... im not sure.
I have been looking into all this stuff (diff views) including 'partial preturest' (sp)? I think so far 'partial preturest' is making the most sense... still looking though.

Partial preterism making sense??? How so? It is without source, ignores history and is totally unBiblical. It's a gross perversion of amillennialism.

 

[mythbuster]

Is the 'main-stream' view of the end times that there will be a time when the devil is 'bound up' and then 1000 years of peace and then he is 'released' again? (taken from Rev 2)

If so...why would the enemy need to be 'bound up' when he has ALREADY been defeated?? How can he be any more powerless and defeated than what Jesus did?

This seems like it does not fit what the Bible says so am i missing something major here?

Thanks for any insite into this Question.

My take is that Satan has been judged but the final execution of that judgement takes place after the 1000 years and after the final rebellion.

peace.

 

[PaladinValer]

Some elements of partial preterism do make sense as much of it could definitely, logically, be applicated to the Roman Empire. However, that doesn't necessarily dismiss a "multiple application;" meaning that it could be both about the Roman Empire and future events yet unknown but similar.

As such, I am a "futurist," but with some elements of partial preterism.

 

[Breetai]

Some elements of partial preterism do make sense as much of it could definitely, logically, be applicated to the Roman Empire. However, that doesn't necessarily dismiss a "multiple application;" meaning that it could be both about the Roman Empire and future events yet unknown but similar.

As such, I am a "futurist," but with some elements of partial preterism.

I'm willing to bet that those same elements would also be found within amillennialist doctrine.

 

[Emma!]

Partial preterism making sense??? How so? It is without source, ignores history and is totally unBiblical. It's a gross perversion of amillennialism.

I dont want to start a debate here but it doesnt ignore history at all (i think the others do) it is largely backed up by historians such as Josephus. I also disagree that it is Biblical its just a different way of interperating the Bible (which in its case includes using history).

 

[Breetai]

I dont want to start a debate here but it doesnt ignore history at all (i think the others do) it is largely backed up by historians such as Josephus. I also disagree that it is Biblical its just a different way of interperating the Bible (which in its case includes using history).

Preterism is backed up by Josephus? The Jewish historian? Haha. Josephus recounted the Jewish slaughter of 70AD, but that's just history. It's pretty obvious that Jesus didn't return, since we are told that He will eventually return and that it would be clearly visible for the whole world to witness...

Also, the vast majority of scholars date the writing of Revelation long after AD 70. That makes the whole preterism idea look pretty pathetic.

Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.)
“John, again, in Asia, was banished by Domitian the king to the isle of Patmos, in which also he wrote his Gospel and saw the apocalyptic vision; and in Trajan’s time he fell asleep at Ephesus, where his remains were sought for, but could not be found.”

Eusebius (c. 260 - c. 340 A.D.; Bishop of Caeserea), author of Ecclesiastic History in 325 A.D.
“It is said that in this persecution [Domitian] the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word.” (Book 3, Chapter 17)

Iranaeus (c. 130 - c. 200; Bishop of Lyons; Disciple of Polycarp; Disciple of John) also agrees with John writting Revelation during the reign of Domitian.

Domitian wasn't emperor until AD 81.


If you really don't want to start a debate, it's up to you. If I come across something that's Biblically unsound, I'll attack it. It's nothing personnal, I just don't like to see good Christians buying into heretical teachings.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Thank you all for your input, im just not sure that i believe that what Jesus did, wasnt enough to defeat and render the enemy powerless... im not sure.
I have been looking into all this stuff (diff views) including 'partial preturest' (sp)? I think so far 'partial preturest' is making the most sense... still looking though.

Thank you all

Yes, Jesus did defeat Satan.....but the full destruction is not realized yet. If it was, why are we to do this (and note the bold):

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}

Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

Eph 6:14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,Eph 6:15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;

Eph 6:16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil {one.}

Eph 6:17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

IF Satan is bound and powerless in this world, why this:
2Cr 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

1Th 2:17 But we, brethren, having been taken away from you for a short while--in person, not in spirit--were all the more eager with great desire to see your face.

1Th 2:18 For we wanted to come to you--I, Paul, more than once--and {yet} Satan hindered us.


1Pe 5:8 Be of sober {spirit,} be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

What I would suggest to you is that by paying the price for our sin, Jesus made the devil powerless over death and those who who accept His gift of salvation will have eternal life. But I haven't found in scripture where Satan has already been bound and powerless in this world as shown by the above scriptures. The binding of Satan from influencing this world for 1000 years is a future event, for Satan is still active in this world. Or don't you believe what Peter wrote?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Preterism is backed up by Josephus? The Jewish historian? Haha.

Jospehus had a big problem with exaggeration, too!! He wrote that Mt. Tabor was 30 stadia high (approx. 18,000 ft.) when it was only about 1,200feet high!!

Jospehus was PAID by the Flavian family (as in Vespasian Flavian and Titus Flavian) and rewarded for his very proRoman (viewpoint) history with citizenship and significant monetary reward.

 

[Breetai]

Jospehus had a big problem with exaggeration, too!! He wrote that Mt. Tabor was 30 stadia high (approx. 18,000 ft.) when it was only about 1,200feet high!!

Jospehus was PAID by the Flavian family (as in Vespasian Flavian and Titus Flavian) and rewarded for his very proRoman (viewpoint) history with citizenship and significant monetary reward.

I found out the hard way once when I tried to use Josephus to state a fact once. He's not exactly repected for his unbiased view and it seems likely that the pro-Christian sections are a later forgery. If he quoted a Jew as yelling out for the "Son" during the seige of Jerusalem, it certainly was to the benefit of Rome and to the discredit of anything Christian.

He was pro-Roman (due to the financial benefits) and pro-Jewish(he was Jewish after all), and it is evident in his works.

 

[PaladinValer]

I'm willing to bet that those same elements would also be found within amillennialist doctrine.

Why...how'd you know that?

Am I really that blunt?