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A Question about the Beginning...
- Thread starter Sadiegrl
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Just as Gentiles did not have to become proselytes (converts) to Judaism before they could come to faith in the Jewish Messiah (Acts.15) so now Israelites do not need to 'convert' to Christianity before they can come to faith in their own Jewish Messiah (Jesus of Nazareth). They can come to faith in the Jewish Messiah from within the context of Biblical Judaism (i.e. become mebers of the group known as the sect of the Nazarenes - those who were Jewish disciples of Jesus of Nazareth) without ever having to be part of the Gentile 'Christian' Church (i.e. the Body of the Messiah), though they will be a part of the Jewish Body of Christ (i.e. the Church).
yes, that makes sense, and i did suspect that to be the answer...or at least along those lines...so i will look at that book too, to get a new perspective. I've found that by incorporating new perspectives of the same information can really unlock or give more detailed insight...which is exciting. I do have my hands full of books to read...
so essentially i can think of myself back in school! But at least i'm studying what really counts! And whats going to be beneficial for me is that, all my interest in studying is catching the attention of my bf...who knows God, but is getting his priorities messed up right now...so hopefully God uses me for this opportunity! I love how he works!
yes, that makes sense, and i did suspect that to be the answer...or at least along those lines...so i will look at that book too, to get a new perspective. I've found that by incorporating new perspectives of the same information can really unlock or give more detailed insight...which is exciting. I do have my hands full of books to read...
so essentially i can think of myself back in school! But at least i'm studying what really counts! And whats going to be beneficial for me is that, all my interest in studying is catching the attention of my bf...who knows God, but is getting his priorities messed up right now...so hopefully God uses me for this opportunity! I love how he works!
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ConqueredbyLove
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In the days of the Messiah and the first apostles there was no 'New Testament' and the only Scriptures they had were the Jewish Tanakh (what we know as the Old Testament though the Jewish Tanakh, whilst having the same books, is in a different order to the Christian 'Old Testament'). Nevertheless, the Messiah regarded the Tanakh as the 'Word of God' and, as such, having absolute authority that is totally binding upon all men.
Simonline, What about the Septuegint which was considered the people's Bible and was around during the time of Jesus of Nazareth? I am reading "The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah" by Albert Eldersheim and he discusses at great length regarding the Western dispersion of the Jews and how the Lord prepared the world for the Gospel of John and the concept of "Logos", and the spreading of the gospel to the whole world.
What Bible (scroll) did our Lord read out of in the Synagoge when He read from Isaiah 61? The Jewish Tanakh?
Please don't tell me Brother Eldersheim's book is not a good book because I love it
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champuru
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Yeah thats awesome!!! I am glad I could be used as God's instrument of encouragementThank you sooooo much! You don't know how much I needed that today!
Don't you just love it when God knows you need a special touch to encourage you onward
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ConqueredbyLove
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The Messiah may have used the Septuagint when interacting with people who were more conversant with Greek than with Hebrew
Since He spent most of His time around the Sea of Galilee, I wonder which version He would have used the most up there. And since, apparently He spoke in Aramaic alot of the time? do you think He would have used the Hebrew or Greek version to those people who spoke Aramaic? Just speculating, I am...Or do we really know that He spoke in Aramaic alot?
Did the Hebraic Jews look with contempt upon the Septuagint, do you think?
If I should be so brave to say it, without God knocking me flat on my face, it seems it was such an amazing thing for God to allow man, through the Greek culture, philosophy, and the Hellinization of the Jews to to go beyond the letter of the law and begin looking deeper beyond just the surface and prepare us for the concept of "Logos", i.e. the Divine expression of God in the Face of Jesus Christ: What I am trying to say is, it seems He took a great chance with us as He allowed us to begin bringing in reasoning and pondering the concept of God in, perhaps a way we had not before? Does that make any sense? Now that I think of it I think that the Bible from start to finish is a revelation of God in an ever deepening way? But then I think of the revelation of Christ in the Old Testament such as revealed in the Tabernacle. Oh, sorry, I am going on and on in my ponderings.
Either way, the Messiah would only have used the Tanakh/Old Testament, in whichever language, because the Brit Hadassah (New Testament) had not been written until after the Messiah's ascension back to the Father.
Well, so I have a real "duh" question. Was the New Testament first written in Hebrew or Greek? I saw you post somewhere where you said Matthew and Mark would have been in Hebrew. But the Gospel of John must have first been written in Greek?, right? Oh, how I wish I had started learning all this years ago. It is great the Amanda is starting early in her journey....
That is a fantastic commentary. I too have a copy of that and have had it for many years. If you are reading that then you will be mightily blessed. Have you read any of his other books (such as The Laws and Polity of the Jews)?
I just love it! But the problem with me is I tend to want to study it like I do the Bible and not just read it. At this rate, it being such a large book, it will take me forever to get through it I have not read any other of His books. I have his book "Sketches of Jewish Social Life" but have not read it yet.
But I got hungry after reading your post to Amanda about the book "Unlocking the Bible Omnibus" so I picked up a copy of that yesterday. Amanda, I got mine for $13.59
May my tongue be ripped out of my throat, should I bear such false testimony against a Nazarenic brother?! Oh, that all Christians would read the works of Alfred Eddersheim (and other Nazarenic believers such as Steve Maltz, David Stern, Marvin R. Wilson, Brad Young, David Bivin and Roy Blizzard Jnr. et. al)?!
(((Gentle laugh) Well, in this case, we would have had to cut off your hands....And why, my brother, do you call them Nazarenic believers? Because Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew? Because they are set apart as the Nazarenes were (are?). What qualifies one being a Nazarenic believer vs. a believer? Have you taken the Nazarite vow in one form or another?
Above scriptures and word definition copied and pasted from:
http://www.e-sword.net
cherished....
Since He spent most of His time around the Sea of Galilee, I wonder which version He would have used the most up there. And since, apparently He spoke in Aramaic alot of the time? do you think He would have used the Hebrew or Greek version to those people who spoke Aramaic? Just speculating, I am...Or do we really know that He spoke in Aramaic alot?
Did the Hebraic Jews look with contempt upon the Septuagint, do you think?
If I should be so brave to say it, without God knocking me flat on my face, it seems it was such an amazing thing for God to allow man, through the Greek culture, philosophy, and the Hellinization of the Jews to to go beyond the letter of the law and begin looking deeper beyond just the surface and prepare us for the concept of "Logos", i.e. the Divine expression of God in the Face of Jesus Christ: What I am trying to say is, it seems He took a great chance with us as He allowed us to begin bringing in reasoning and pondering the concept of God in, perhaps a way we had not before? Does that make any sense? Now that I think of it I think that the Bible from start to finish is a revelation of God in an ever deepening way? But then I think of the revelation of Christ in the Old Testament such as revealed in the Tabernacle. Oh, sorry, I am going on and on in my ponderings.
Either way, the Messiah would only have used the Tanakh/Old Testament, in whichever language, because the Brit Hadassah (New Testament) had not been written until after the Messiah's ascension back to the Father.
Well, so I have a real "duh" question. Was the New Testament first written in Hebrew or Greek? I saw you post somewhere where you said Matthew and Mark would have been in Hebrew. But the Gospel of John must have first been written in Greek?, right? Oh, how I wish I had started learning all this years ago. It is great the Amanda is starting early in her journey....
That is a fantastic commentary. I too have a copy of that and have had it for many years. If you are reading that then you will be mightily blessed. Have you read any of his other books (such as The Laws and Polity of the Jews)?
I just love it! But the problem with me is I tend to want to study it like I do the Bible and not just read it. At this rate, it being such a large book, it will take me forever to get through it
I have not read any other of His books. I have his book "Sketches of Jewish Social Life" but have not read it yet.But I got hungry after reading your post to Amanda about the book "Unlocking the Bible Omnibus" so I picked up a copy of that yesterday. Amanda, I got mine for $13.59
May my tongue be ripped out of my throat, should I bear such false testimony against a Nazarenic brother?! Oh, that all Christians would read the works of Alfred Eddersheim (and other Nazarenic believers such as Steve Maltz, David Stern, Marvin R. Wilson, Brad Young, David Bivin and Roy Blizzard Jnr. et. al)?!
(((Gentle laugh) Well, in this case, we would have had to cut off your hands....And why, my brother, do you call them Nazarenic believers? Because Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew? Because they are set apart as the Nazarenes were (are?). What qualifies one being a Nazarenic believer vs. a believer? Have you taken the Nazarite vow in one form or another?
Above scriptures and word definition copied and pasted from:
http://www.e-sword.net
cherished....
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ConqueredbyLove
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And now, Simonline, if you will accept this from a lady, this is especially for you~
~The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace~
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace~
Numbers 6:24-26
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good post cherished...and i totally forgot to look on Amazon for that book, woulda got it cheaper...in fact mine isnt here yet , i bought it online and it will be here tomorrow...but you definitely got a better deal than me
So i was studying with my friend again last night. We are on Genesis 3 now, and there was some questions about the significance of the two trees in the Garden of Eden. Now they were not placed there as a temptation to man(or were they?)...but they were still there and were explicitly told by God to not even touch it. We discussed it being as being symbolic, but knew there was deeper meaning to its purpose. Well we thought it would be relevant to the progression of man, but after they chose to eat of the tree of knowledge, they were then cast out and the Garden was guarded so they would not try to get back in and eat of the tree of life, for then they would live forever. So theres definitely some underlying wisdom or meaning here, and i couldnt wait to ask you guys what do you think?
*When they heard the sound of God strolling in the garden in the evening breeze, the Man and his Wife hid in the trees of the garden, hid from God. (how cool would that be to stoll leisurely in a beautiful garden with God?!)
, i bought it online and it will be here tomorrow...but you definitely got a better deal than me So i was studying with my friend again last night. We are on Genesis 3 now, and there was some questions about the significance of the two trees in the Garden of Eden. Now they were not placed there as a temptation to man(or were they?)...but they were still there and were explicitly told by God to not even touch it. We discussed it being as being symbolic, but knew there was deeper meaning to its purpose. Well we thought it would be relevant to the progression of man, but after they chose to eat of the tree of knowledge, they were then cast out and the Garden was guarded so they would not try to get back in and eat of the tree of life, for then they would live forever. So theres definitely some underlying wisdom or meaning here, and i couldnt wait to ask you guys
what do you think?*When they heard the sound of God strolling in the garden in the evening breeze, the Man and his Wife hid in the trees of the garden, hid from God. (how cool would that be to stoll leisurely in a beautiful garden with God?!)
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yay for your friend! How exciting for him and you as his friend! I can relate to the longing of a friend you want to just wake up and open their stubborn eyes! (i'm referring to my friend that is stuck in that cult like religion) That also reminded me of myself...I had a really rough time growing up, but i always knew that God was there with me... even if i hadnt really recognized him. My mom used to tell me alot to listen to my inner parent...I used to give myself credit for turning out the way i did, but only since i've been embracing God in my life, has he revealed to me that it was him i was listening to. I would love for you to read my testimony...God has miraculously healed me several times from severe medical issues...under the testimonies mine is called, "my testimony of miraculous healing and transformation" But seriously i'm dying to get my book!!! It will help so much in our bible study too i'm sure!
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ConqueredbyLove
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after they chose to eat of the tree of knowledge, they were then cast out and the Garden was guarded so they would not try to get back in and eat of the tree of life, for then they would live forever. So theres definitely some underlying wisdom or meaning here, and i couldnt wait to ask you guys
They were forbidden to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Once they disobeyed and ate the fruit of that tree, they knew evil, i.e. evil became a part of their life and a part of every person's life that has ever been born, with all the sorrow, grief, fear, etc. that goes along with knowing (experiencing, and being aware of) evil. Note that when God called out to them following that, they told God that they hid themselves from God because they were afraid. As we all know fear is a horrendous result of knowing (experiencing) evil.
After they ate the fruit from that tree and knew evil, if they had eaten of the fruit of the tree of life they would have lived forever in that state and all of Adam's descendents, including you and me would be doomed to live forever in that fallen state. So, God, in His mercy, kept them from eating of that tree.
Note that the tree of life is mentioned in Revelation 22. These are some of my favorite verses in the Bible
I am not certain if this is Heaven or the new earth....~And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever~
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever~
Revelation 22: 1-5
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ConqueredbyLove
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Simonline,
That is sooo wonderful about your friend coming "home". I send to him cyberhugs from a sister in California
and I am so blessed to hear the news. Perhaps, someday he might pop in and say "hi" to us on this forum and then we can all just cyberhug and love on him and tell him ourselves we just love him as our brother and we are so happy 
Thank you, so much for sharing that.
As to the rest of your reply to me, I think I will try to start a new thread since I have pulled the thread off-topic from Amanda's topic. Sorry, Amanda, dear.....
That is sooo wonderful about your friend coming "home". I send to him cyberhugs from a sister in California
and I am so blessed to hear the news. Perhaps, someday he might pop in and say "hi" to us on this forum and then we can all just cyberhug and love on him and tell him ourselves we just love him as our brother and we are so happy Thank you, so much for sharing that.
As to the rest of your reply to me, I think I will try to start a new thread since I have pulled the thread off-topic from Amanda's topic. Sorry, Amanda, dear.....
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not a problem whatsoever...i like the direction this is going...and dont worry about offending me... i'm pretty easy going and you pretty much just have to be mean to upset me at all 
i am thoroughly enjoying the updates and information!
And that makes alot of sense, about the trees. There is so much knowledge! I know so little! But in comparison to what i did know, is amazing! Simonline...how often do you find yourself learning new things? I mean you are very knowledgeable and wise, so i'm just wondering how you are enjoying learning with God?
i am thoroughly enjoying the updates and information!And that makes alot of sense, about the trees. There is so much knowledge! I know so little! But in comparison to what i did know, is amazing! Simonline...how often do you find yourself learning new things? I mean you are very knowledgeable and wise, so i'm just wondering how you are enjoying learning with God?
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ConqueredbyLove
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Simonline,
Thank you, kindly, for your replies to me. Your above statement is so beautiful and it demonstrates more of the beautiful condescension to which our Beloved God will go to to be with us. Lovely, beyond belief!
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. cherishedbyGod, still.....
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