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A Question About Heaven

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hlaltimus

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Yes, I think so.

"Then shall I know as I am known"

God has a perfect knowledge of us, ("...as I am known",) and so our knowledge in heaven must also be perfect, in some way, since, (Then shall I know as I am...). The only way this can be true of us in heaven and yet not compete with God's solitary and unique attribute of infinite knowledge is that is heaven, God will perfectly, infinitely know us while we will perfectly but finitely know both Him and others. A knowledge of those whom you have loved on Earth who now reside in Heaven that is scetchy and imperfect is therefore impossible. You will perfectly know...All you should finitely know and certainly you should know those whom God has deliberately and eternally placed you with in Heaven to be endless companions with. It has to be a perfect knowledge on both sides, only differing in the extent or within the boundaries of that perfect knowledge. You'll know.
 
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RND

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Here's a little more on "why the resurrection."

God told the truth, like He always does, when He said in Gen. 2:17 that Adam would die.
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die
Satan, in Gen. 3:4, lied like he always does, when he said they would not die; Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die

As in Adam ALL die, 1Cor. 15:22. Also in the same verse ALL shall be made alive in Christ. We would not need to be made alive if we were not DEAD, i.e. lifeless, without life and any other way you can think to say it.

Death is like sleep according to scripture. Note: Dan. 12:2 “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt” and 1Cor. 11:30 “ For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.” and many other places.

The soul is the living being,(check your concordance,) not some thing that goes on living after one dies. Ezk. 18:4,20 “ Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.” verse 20 “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself


The dead are not aware of anything; Ecc. 9:5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.


Man is subject to the same death as an animal; Ecc. 3:19-20 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.

That is why we need to be resurrected. Because we are dead and have no power to resurrect ourselves.

That's nice and very agreeable considering my Adventist bent. However, what does any of it have to do with your comment regarding Christ not coming to get us or more accurately (as you stated), "He does not say anything about us going there to receive it.."
 
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ThomasDa

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The "THERE" we were talking about was heaven!!!

Jesus does not say that we will go to heaven to recieve our reward.
We will go to be with Him at His return. He will return to the Mt. of Olives and then set up His world rulling Kingdom in Jerusalem. That is where we will go to meet and be with Him and recieve our reward. That is, the reward that He says He is bringing with Him when He returns.
Then we will reign with Him for 1,000 years. After that, the 2nd resurrection and the white throne judgment. After that the Bible gives very little information.
I have said this in so many ways and so many times I don't know what else I can say about it.
Let me ask you a question. Are you serious about this or are you just jerking me around. I'm starting to believe the latter.
There can't possibly be anyone who can read these words, and not understand what they are saying.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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The "THERE" we were talking about was heaven!!!

Jesus does not say that we will go to heaven to recieve our reward.
We will go to be with Him at His return. He will return to the Mt. of Olives and then set up His world rulling Kingdom in Jerusalem. That is where we will go to meet and be with Him and recieve our reward. That is, the reward that He says He is bringing with Him when He returns.
Then we will reign with Him for 1,000 years. After that, the 2nd resurrection and the white throne judgment. After that the Bible gives very little information.
I have said this in so many ways and so many times I don't know what else I can say about it.
Let me ask you a question. Are you serious about this or are you just jerking me around. I'm starting to believe the latter.
There can't possibly be anyone who can read these words, and not understand what they are saying.
What exactly is our reward. Jesus intends to give us allot when we are saved. Is eternal life our reward. I don't think any on of us deserves eternal life. But what is our reward? Jesus promises eternal life to those who are saved. He promises us mansions in heaven. He promises us no more death, sorrow and pain. He promises us his presence with us when we will be living on the earth made new. ThomasDa, what do you consider to be our reward?
 
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PROPHECYKID

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The "THERE" we were talking about was heaven!!!

Jesus does not say that we will go to heaven to recieve our reward.
We will go to be with Him at His return. He will return to the Mt. of Olives and then set up His world rulling Kingdom in Jerusalem. That is where we will go to meet and be with Him and recieve our reward. That is, the reward that He says He is bringing with Him when He returns.
Then we will reign with Him for 1,000 years. After that, the 2nd resurrection and the white throne judgment. After that the Bible gives very little information.
I have said this in so many ways and so many times I don't know what else I can say about it.
Let me ask you a question. Are you serious about this or are you just jerking me around. I'm starting to believe the latter.
There can't possibly be anyone who can read these words, and not understand what they are saying.
Also, the bible doesn't teach if you look at all the texts talking about the second coming and come to a general conclusion that Jesus will set foot on the earth when he comes. It makes no sense meeting him in the air to go to the mount of olives where he gathers us and gives us a reward. Do you believe that we will be spending the millennium on earth?
 
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ThomasDa

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The reward of the saved is quite an extensive subject, but I’ll try to give you a thumb-nail sketch. Wish me luck. No pressure right?

Paul wrote in 1Cor. 2:9 But as it is written: “ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” Although we can not know everything about our future reward, God has seen fit to reveal the basics.

Jesus was born to be King Isa. 9:6-7 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Isa. 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, (i.e. Kingdom) For (or because)the EARTH shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.

The government shall His responsibility; That government will have no end; Christ will sit on the throne of David,(a throne here on earth.) No harm will come in that Kingdom, because the knowledge of God will completely cover the earth. This Kingdom is obviously on earth. Enough said?

When Christ returns, He returns to set up His Kingdom. Note; Rev. 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” Rev. 20:3-7 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Daniel speaks of this time as a time when Christ will come and put an end to man’s misrule and set up a Kingdom that will rein forever. Dan. 7:27Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
Rulership will “be given to the saints of the Most High,” and they shall “live and reign with Christ for a thousand years.”

The Lord will reign from Jerusalem Isa. 24:23 Then the moon will be disgraced And the sun ashamed; For the LORD of hosts will reign On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem And before His elders, gloriously. Also in Isa. 8:18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the LORD of hosts,
Who dwells in Mount Zion. (i.e. Jerusalem)

In prophecies about the Kingdom Isaiah says the word and the law will go out from Jerusalem. Isa. 2:2-3 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain (i.e. Kingdom)of the LORD’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains,(i.e. kingdoms of this world) And shall be exalted above the hills;(i.e. smaller kingdoms) And all nations shall flow to it. 3 Many people shall come and say, “ Come, and let us go up to the mountain(Kingdom) of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

This Kingdom will go on to restore this earth. Isa. 51:3For the LORD will comfort Zion,
He will comfort all her waste places; He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it,
Thanksgiving and the voice of melody. Note also; Isa. 35:1The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them, And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
There are dozens of scriptures about the time when Christ will come and set up His Kingdom on this earth.

At that time the people will, once again, begin to obey God and keep his Feasts and learn what they are really about. Note; Zech. 14:16-19 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

In Titus 3:7 and many, many other places we learn that part of our reward is eternal life. “that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

We will be heirs, or part owners in the Kingdom of God. Ja. 2:5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? What does an heir do? An heir inherits tings. Once one inherits something they own it.

Heb. 2:10-11 says; “For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Read that again. Sons, brothers? WOW! Now in Eph. 4:11-13 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
  • 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith
  • and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
  • to a perfect man,
  • to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ
1Jo. 3:2 Says that we will be like Jesus. “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Remember that Jesus is the first born of many brethren. Ro. 8:29

Receiving ETERNAL LIFE, becoming BROTHERS of CHRIST, being JOINT HERIS to the Kingdom and receiving AUTHORITY to RULE WITH Jesus, in His Kingdom at His return. These are not small rewards. Are there more that we don’t know about? I have no doubt, but at this time this is more than I can wrap my head around. I will be more than happy to serve Christ, in His Kingdom, here on this earth for 1,000 years or however long He says
 
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SonicBOOM

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Something I have always wondered...When we get to Heaven, will we be able to recognize our friends and family members? My husband and I have pondered this several times. Maybe the answer is already in the bible, I am not sure. What is everyone's thoughts on this? :holy:

the bible says there will be a great resurrection. and it's not speaking metaphorical here.... there will be a very real resurrection of very real bodies. Our bodies will be the same they always are, except more. So yeah :) if you can recognize them now, you will recognize them than :)
 
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SonicBOOM

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Jesus does not say that we will go to heaven to recieve our reward.
.

actully.... yeah he does. Paul talks about an eternal glory that is waiting for us that far outweighs the sufferings of this life. Jesus talks about a reward in EVERY parable about the afterlife. "come, you who are blessed by my father receive your inheretance, the kingdom prepared for you sense the creation of the world"
 
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BrotherDave

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Here is how I understand this. As has been mentioned earlier our minds cannot even come close to imagining how perfect heaven will be. We do know that in heaven, we will maintain our identity eternally. Recall what happened on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew Chapter 17:1 – 3). Moses and Elias (Elijah), who had lived and died on earth much earlier, and who ever since they died had been living in heaven, came from heaven and appeared before Jesus and the three apostles. Moses was still Moses, and Elijah was still Elijah. We know the marriage relationship does not exist in heaven. (Matthew Chapter 22:30) because all true Christians are the bride of Christ.

We also know that there will be no pain or sorrow in heaven (Rev 7:16, 17, Rev 21:4), and all things will be new Rev 21:5. Based on this I believe we will not remember our lives and relationships on this earth. Many people we know who might even believe they are saved may not be. Recall what happened to Lot he thought his family was going to be saved from destruction but his wife was not. We are also told that on the last day one person will be taken and another left (Luke 17:32-36, Matt 24:40) and that during this great tribulation family members will be against each other. Imagine the sorrow we would have if God did not choose to save any other members of our family. That would be terrible and such feelings will not be present in heaven.

Now regarding the resurrection. If we die before Christ returns our souls immediately go to Heaven if we were saved when we died. Then on the last day of this earth He will return, the graves opened and all those who have been saved will be called up to meet Christ in the air in our new resurrected bodies. The unsaved are left on this planet and will suffer 5 months of torment before God finally destroys all of creation including the unsaved. Then God will make a new heaven and earth and that is where all those who were saved will reign with Christ forever and there will be no more sin.

Dave
 
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MoNiCa4316

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Monica said: "I think we'll keep our memories, so we'll be able to recognize our friends and family."

Does this mean that you think that our Heavenly bodies will look exactly like our Earthly bodies?
I assume that we will look differently.
If so, even if we have a memory of them, we won't recognize them (because they won't look the same).

Our heavenly or more correctly Resurrection bodies may look the same...I don't know! I think they'll just be perfected..so for example if someone lost a leg or something, they'll get it back. But as I said, I really don't know. But if our bodies will look different..that doesn't mean that we won't recognize people! We might 'recognize' them in a different way; that's not dependent on sight.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Edit.

A Second thought about it:
Matthew 22:30 (the 7-Hubby widow) says: "People will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like angels in Heaven."
To me, this means, I will be like an angel.
An angel has NEVER been married.
Therefore, it will be as if I had never been married.
So, if I was never married, I wouldn't recognize my wife.

But if you're married now, nothing can ever change that fact...maybe you won't be married in heaven but it would still be true that you were married, here on earth. It's not like history would be changed.

:)
 
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MoNiCa4316

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Here is how I understand this. As has been mentioned earlier our minds cannot even come close to imagining how perfect heaven will be. We do know that in heaven, we will maintain our identity eternally. Recall what happened on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew Chapter 17:1 – 3). Moses and Elias (Elijah), who had lived and died on earth much earlier, and who ever since they died had been living in heaven, came from heaven and appeared before Jesus and the three apostles. Moses was still Moses, and Elijah was still Elijah. We know the marriage relationship does not exist in heaven. (Matthew Chapter 22:30) because all true Christians are the bride of Christ.

I agree with this :thumbsup:

We also know that there will be no pain or sorrow in heaven (
Rev 7:16, 17, Rev 21:4), and all things will be new Rev 21:5. Based on this I believe we will not remember our lives and relationships on this earth.

hmm..why do you think that we must forget our earthly lives to be happy in heaven? Can't God heal us from all the pain, etc, that we've experienced here? For example...we still remember our past sins..but instead of feeling guilt over them, we feel thankful for forgiveness. Maybe it'll be the case with everything else...we'll still remember the pain of this life..but we will experience the healing that God provides and this will only be another reason to praise Him. Also, I believe we will look back on many of the things we experienced and see the purpose of them...we will see clearly. ;) So I think what'll happen is that the old things would be renewed but they will not be erased from history or from our memories. (although, I may be wrong). As someone once said..happiness is not just the absense of suffering..it's the presence of God.

Many people we know who might even believe they are saved may not be. Recall what happened to
Lot he thought his family was going to be saved from destruction but his wife was not. We are also told that on the last day one person will be taken and another left (Luke 17:32-36, Matt 24:40) and that during this great tribulation family members will be against each other. Imagine the sorrow we would have if God did not choose to save any other members of our family. That would be terrible and such feelings will not be present in heaven.

That's a good point...Indeed it would be very sad to realize that one's friends/family members have not made it to heaven...I'm not entirely sure what will happen with that...it does say that God would wipe away every tear from our eyes. :)

Now regarding the resurrection. If we die before Christ returns our souls immediately go to Heaven if we were saved when we died. Then on the last day of this earth He will return, the graves opened and all those who have been saved will be called up to meet Christ in the air in our new resurrected bodies. The unsaved are left on this planet and will suffer 5 months of torment before God finally destroys all of creation including the unsaved. Then God will make a new heaven and earth and that is where all those who were saved will reign with Christ forever and there will be no more sin.

That's how I've always seen it too...except you didn't mention hell, do you believe in it? I wish there won't be a hell but the more I read the more I'm convinced there will be...hmm well I may be wrong; I guess we'll see!

God bless

monica
 
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Gary51

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What do you guys think of all those near death experiences where people have seen their dead friends and relatives in heaven? :confused:
It is all in the mind... it is not real.

An experiment has been conducted in a hospital operating theatre. On the ceiling above the operating table a small piece of text was placed. The text was so small that one had to be within two feet of it to read it.

The idea was that if anybody died and claimed to have an out of body experience, they would float up to the ceiling and be able to read the text. After all, many people have claimed to float around taking notice of details in operating theatres.

Since the experiement started many people had flat lined on the table and had been resuscitated. However, not one of them read the text.

Nde's and obe's are all in the mind.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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It is all in the mind... it is not real.

An experiment has been conducted in a hospital operating theatre. On the ceiling above the operating table a small piece of text was placed. The text was so small that one had to be within two feet of it to read it.

The idea was that if anybody died and claimed to have an out of body experience, they would float up to the ceiling and be able to read the text. After all, many people have claimed to float around taking notice of details in operating theatres.

Since the experiement started many people had flat lined on the table and had been resuscitated. However, not one of them read the text.

Nde's and obe's are all in the mind.

:wave: To be honest I don't really believe experiments about spiritual things..thats kinda like 'testing' God..and who says that people float upwards when they die anyway? There are documented cases of people really dying in hospital and having nde's....it couldn't have been in their mind because they stopped breathing so there was no oxygen going to their brain. Also lots of people have been changed by these experiences, and I've read about atheists who converted to Christianity afterwards.
 
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Gary51

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:wave: To be honest I don't really believe experiments about spiritual things..thats kinda like 'testing' God..and who says that people float upwards when they die anyway? There are documented cases of people really dying in hospital and having nde's....it couldn't have been in their mind because they stopped breathing so there was no oxygen going to their brain. Also lots of people have been changed by these experiences, and I've read about atheists who converted to Christianity afterwards.
I read many books on the subject, they all sound very covincing.... but it is not real... and not biblical.

No one really knows what goes on in the brain after flatline. Although all medical indicators may say brain dead... they come back so they were not irretrivably dead, so their brains must have been still active.
 
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JAL

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Something I have always wondered...When we get to Heaven, will we be able to recognize our friends and family members? My husband and I have pondered this several times. Maybe the answer is already in the bible, I am not sure. What is everyone's thoughts on this? :holy:

I think God wants each of us to be honored in heaven for our good deeds. Therefore in heaven He will probably want me to recognize Abraham as Abraham, Moses as Moses, etc.


As for the debate as to whether we will be in "heaven" or "on earth" - perhaps it's a combo. That is to say, the heavenly city, the new Jerusalem, will probably descend upon a new earth, and thus we have heaven on earth. Anyway it's not all that important because our joy will primarily be in Christ, not in material things, so the specifics of the heavenly environment are probably not worth debating about.
 
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