A question about covid-19...

Tinker Grey

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Ps I recommend listening to Nicky Gumbel of HTB church, find on YouTube. His testimony of becoming a Christian is very helpful to listen to. He began the Alpha Courses which are an excellent introduction to Christianity. I hope that helps your curiosity.
I was a Christian for 44 years. I've guided others through the Alpha course.

You should listen or read to Dan Barker. His testimony of becoming an atheist is very helpful.
 
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Grace2022

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Is there any other religion where God came humbly down in human form and sacrificed himself? Then where each of his apostles died terrible painful deaths after spreading his message? Neither Christ nor his disciples gained anything worldly.
Look at the teachings he left us. Our whole legal system is built upon Christian principles. Our entire health. Education and legal institutions were built by Christians.
There is plenty of historical evidence that Jesus was real.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Is there any other religion where God came humbly down in human form and sacrificed himself? Then where each of his apostles died terrible painful deaths after spreading his message? Neither Christ nor his disciples gained anything worldly.
I wouldn't be surprised if the story of a god becoming human to sacrifice itself for some great principle didn't crop up in some other religion - so much of Christianity is cobbled together from other ideas. But each religion is different - each can ask "what other religion believes X, Y, or Z?"

Look at the teachings he left us. Our whole legal system is built upon Christian principles. Our entire health. Education and legal institutions were built by Christians.
Look at the teachings of the other great religious and philosophical teachers - for example, Plato, Aristotle, Buddha, Zoroaster, Confucius, etc., The first two provided the philosophical and scientific grounding of Western thought until recent times. The last three founded religions long before Christianity and still are extremely popular. But popularity and longevity are not indicators that beliefs are well-founded.

There is plenty of historical evidence that Jesus was real.
Arguable, but it seems likely - there certainly would have been people called Jesus around at the time, and the biblical Jesus might well be based on a particular individual, but how much of the stories are true is undecidable - the stories of his birth are known to be historically inaccurate.
 
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Grace2022

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I wouldn't be surprised if the story of a god becoming human to sacrifice itself for some great principle didn't crop up in some other religion - so much of Christianity is cobbled together from other ideas. But each religion is different - each can ask "what other religion believes X, Y, or Z?"

Look at the teachings of the other great religious and philosophical teachers - for example, Plato, Aristotle, Buddha, Zoroaster, Confucius, etc., The first two provided the philosophical and scientific grounding of Western thought until recent times. The last three founded religions long before Christianity and still are extremely popular. But popularity and longevity are not indicators that beliefs are well-founded.

Arguable, but it seems likely - there certainly would have been people called Jesus around at the time, and the biblical Jesus might well be based on a particular individual, but how much of the stories are true is undecidable - the stories of his birth are known to be historically inaccurate.


Hi again
Were there any others who had a ministry of teaching love, were crucified, rose again and whose deciples spread the message which multiplies to this day?
This Jesus we worship is the only one.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Hi again
Were there any others who had a ministry of teaching love, were crucified, rose again and whose deciples spread the message which multiplies to this day?
This Jesus we worship is the only one.
So what? Every religion is different, so they can all make claims to be the only one with their beliefs, history, and prophets. Many other religions have love as a central theme, they all had or have disciples who spread the word, in some their prophets were killed, in some they were resurrected, and some religions are still growing.

For example, consider Hinduism's Krishna - "The birth of Krishna, who is believed to be the direct descendent of the Hindu God, has several things in common with the birth of Christ. Both were born of virgin mothers, are part of a holy trinity, were resurrected from the dead, performed similar miracles, and had angels looking after them. They also taught many of the same morals, including nonviolence, forgiveness, love and prayer." How is Christianity Similar to Other Religions - Beliefnet

Many biblical stories are recognisably rehashed versions of older myths & legends - but this is not uncommon - religions have a tendency to repurpose memorable morality tales. See 10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse, and The Similarities Between Zoroastrianism And Christianity -spiritualgrowthguide.com.

I'm no expert in comparative religions, but there are plenty more commonalities to be found online.
 
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JohnEmmett

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"The birth of Krishna, who is believed to be the direct descendent of the Hindu God, has several things in common with the birth of Christ.

Krishna and Christ were Avatars
 
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Whyayeman

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No God hasn't. All the answers are in the Bible, in the 4 Gospels. Start with John and consider the implications and magnitude of Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself for us. Consider the numerous healings Jesus was seen to perform.

Never mind other people and their opinions. What matters is what YOU think as you read the eye Witnesses accounts of Jesus's life, which is what the gospels are.

If 'all the answers are in the Gospels' how come I am so often offered quotations from the Old Testament and hardly anybody on these boards quotes from the Gospels?
 
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JohnEmmett

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If 'all the answers are in the Gospels' how come I am so often offered quotations from the Old Testament and hardly anybody on these boards quotes from the Gospels?

They are saying Salvation is in the gospels……

Not all answers.
 
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Whyayeman

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They are saying Salvation is in the gospels……

Not all answers.

Maybe that was the intended meaning. I still find it a little odd that so many professed Christians refer me to Old Testament sources to demonstrate how mistaken I am!
 
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JohnEmmett

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You can change my mind with evidence. Objective, verifiable, testable evidence. But I've been around long enough to know that the 'supernatural' is remarkably elusive in that respect... ;)

you want to be forced to care and that's against free will


the right approach would be caring about the supernatural


but you don't really care… hence you are an atheist
 
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Hazelelponi

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...for the truly spiritually aware here who have encountered and recovered from this virus.

Did feel it? The evil that invaded you? The chilling, merciless killer that tried to overcome not only your body, but your mind and soul? The battle that took place in you to eliminate it, the power of praying in the name of Jesus Christ that saved you.

I say this because I think I've just had a lucky escape. Only recently I fell ill with what seemed like a cold, then it suddenly plunged me into 3 nights and days of battle quite unlike anything I've ever known. The darkness, sickness and rapid elimination my body mounted was a process I never want again. I believe because I am double vaccinated, healthy and above all, I prayed ceaselessly, I was able to get rid of it.

I am ok, hospital was avoided. But no way was that a cold! I had two negative tests, but deep inside, I know that was covid trying to get me. I've had colds and flu in my life, but this was different. On a whole other level. There was a spiritual aspect to it.

My main impression was, this thing was pure evil. It was cold, murderous and merciless. I know all viruses are destroyers of life, but I feel I've had a close encounter with an actual hellish entity. I had 3 nights of visions, nightmares, cold sweats. I felt such black impenetrable darkness all round me.

It may sound absurd, but the level of fear I felt, deep in my soul, I have never had before. As if death itself passed through but just couldn't get a hold of me. I prayed Jesus' name, cried out for help constantly and I am fine now, I escaped. Jesus saved me from real harm.

Has anyone here been ill with covid
and felt anything like this spiritual warfare going on inside them?

I was COVID positive and never sick. No, I never felt afraid or like I was being attacked in any way, not spiritually or otherwise.

To me it sounds as if you're experiencing or experienced a great deal of fear because you were sick.

Something you should read is this article here: Why the world needs viruses to function

"If given the choice to magically wave a wand and cause all viruses to disappear, most people would probably jump at that opportunity, especially now. Yet this would be a deadly mistake – deadlier, in fact, than any virus could ever be.

“If all viruses suddenly disappeared, the world would be a wonderful place for about a day and a half, and then we’d all die – that’s the bottom line,” says Tony Goldberg, an epidemiologist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. “All the essential things they do in the world far outweigh the bad things."


Viruses aren't evil, they are actually essential to life. You should give the full article a read when you have time.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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you want to be forced to care and that's against free will

the right approach would be caring about the supernatural

but you don't really care… hence you are an atheist
You really have no idea at all what I want or what I care about. I suspect you're just trolling.
 
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Whyayeman

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you want to be forced to care and that's against free will


the right approach would be caring about the supernatural


but you don't really care… hence you are an atheist

I think the reference to free will is a red herring here. On one of the very few Christian forums where atheists are welcome there needs to be an understanding that not everybody believes in the supernatural.

I do not understand the last bit.

In response to the first post's question: 'Did you feel ... the evil invade your body?'

I have not had any covid symptoms but I have been ill a few times, like most people. I have never regarded illness as evil. Flu-like symptoms are deeply uncomfortable and debilitating, of course - but evil, not at all.

Covid 19 is a serious business, but let us not be melodramatically Old Testament about it.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I think the reference to free will is a red herring here.
His statement is nonsensical - particularly as I think libertarian (dualist) free will is an incoherent concept.

I have not had any covid symptoms but I have been ill a few times, like most people. I have never regarded illness as evil. Flu-like symptoms are deeply uncomfortable and debilitating, of course - but evil, not at all.

Covid 19 is a serious business, but let us not be melodramatically Old Testament about it.
Quite. Evil is a moral attribution and viruses are not moral agents.
 
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