A question about covid-19...

[Grace2022]

...for the truly spiritually aware here who have encountered and recovered from this virus.

Did feel it? The evil that invaded you? The chilling, merciless killer that tried to overcome not only your body, but your mind and soul? The battle that took place in you to eliminate it, the power of praying in the name of Jesus Christ that saved you.

I say this because I think I've just had a lucky escape. Only recently I fell ill with what seemed like a cold, then it suddenly plunged me into 3 nights and days of battle quite unlike anything I've ever known. The darkness, sickness and rapid elimination my body mounted was a process I never want again. I believe because I am double vaccinated, healthy and above all, I prayed ceaselessly, I was able to get rid of it.

I am ok, hospital was avoided. But no way was that a cold! I had two negative tests, but deep inside, I know that was covid trying to get me. I've had colds and flu in my life, but this was different. On a whole other level. There was a spiritual aspect to it.

My main impression was, this thing was pure evil. It was cold, murderous and merciless. I know all viruses are destroyers of life, but I feel I've had a close encounter with an actual hellish entity. I had 3 nights of visions, nightmares, cold sweats. I felt such black impenetrable darkness all round me.

It may sound absurd, but the level of fear I felt, deep in my soul, I have never had before. As if death itself passed through but just couldn't get a hold of me. I prayed Jesus' name, cried out for help constantly and I am fine now, I escaped. Jesus saved me from real harm.

Has anyone here been ill with covid
and felt anything like this spiritual warfare going on inside them?

 

[Tinker Grey]

It may sound absurd

Yup

 

[Blade]

Yup

"for the truly spiritually aware here who have encountered and recovered from this virus."

Please... thanks for being here.. knowing Christ loves the world died for all the sin of the world for no one loves as He does the only way only truth and only life.

Anyway to the op covid and "spiritual warfare " no yet is it being used by the world to get power and control fear yes.. that part there is a "spiritual warfare" going on.

 

[splish- splash]

Haven't yet but even if I did, that would never stop me from loving my King Jesus ...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

My main impression was, this thing was pure evil. It was cold, murderous and merciless. I know all viruses are destroyers of life, but I feel I've had a close encounter with an actual hellish entity. I had 3 nights of visions, nightmares, cold sweats. I felt such black impenetrable darkness all round me.

It may sound absurd, but the level of fear I felt, deep in my soul, I have never had before. As if death itself passed through but just couldn't get a hold of me. I prayed Jesus' name, cried out for help constantly and I am fine now, I escaped. Jesus saved me from real harm.

If you go through life believing in heaven, hell, good and evil supernatural entities, and the power of prayer, is it any wonder that you perceive and interpret strongly emotional events in those terms?

Having Covid is bad enough without all that extra baggage.

 

[Grace2022]

If you go through life believing in heaven, hell, good and evil supernatural entities, and the power of prayer, is it any wonder that you perceive and interpret strongly emotional events in those terms?

Having Covid is bad enough without all that extra baggage.

Hi, so you don't believe in this 'baggage'?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hi, so you don't believe in this 'baggage'?

No; I see no reason to - it saves a lot of hassle. The world is just as one would expect if those beliefs were 'baggage' and not at all as one would expect if those beliefs had any basis in reality.

But I acknowledge that beliefs, whatever their basis, are powerful motivators...

 

[Grace2022]

No; I see no reason to - it saves a lot of hassle. The world is just as one would expect if those beliefs were 'baggage' and not at all as one would expect if those beliefs had any basis in reality.

But I acknowledge that beliefs, whatever their basis, are powerful motivators...

Hi, I find this interesting. So, firstly, you are a Christian?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hi, I find this interesting. So, firstly, you are a Christian?

No - few atheists are. I was brought up Christian until I left school, but it never 'took'.

 

[Grace2022]

No - few atheists are. I was brought up Christian until I left school, but it never 'took'.

Hi, aha, I wondered. Then a warm welcome to you here. I am truly glad you are here. I love talking to atheists! I was one myself a few years ago.

You are interested in us obviously. Please do ask me anything. I will not argue because I am not clever enough. But I promise to tell you the truth as I see it. Then maybe, just maybe, you might change your mind. But no pressure from me.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hi, aha, I wondered. Then a warm welcome to you here. I am truly glad you are here. I love talking to atheists! I was one myself a few years ago.

Thank you, you make me feel like a newcomer

I'm sorry you lost your atheism - what happened?

You are interested in us obviously. Please do ask me anything. I will not argue because I am not clever enough. But I promise to tell you the truth as I see it. Then maybe, just maybe, you might change your mind. But no pressure from me.

I'm here for two main reasons, curiosity about the psychology of belief - why some people believe in the supernatural and others don't; and to help get the science right - there's a lot of time wasted arguing misunderstandings of science.

You can change my mind with evidence. Objective, verifiable, testable evidence. But I've been around long enough to know that the 'supernatural' is remarkably elusive in that respect...

 

[Grace2022]

Hi Frumious,
I have no science to offer. Evidence only of my own testimony.

I had no belief in God, I assumed it was all nonsense. Then things happened.

7 years ago I faced my husband's cancer death. I sat there and simply realised I needed God. I had nowhere else to go as my world caved in. So I prayed and everything suddenly changed. I felt strength, peace and comfort as I had never before known.
I felt a great power embraced me.
From that time I coped with everything. Life was still very difficult, but I had a power on my side that carried me.
I began church, reading the Bible. Learning all I could and talking to others. I realised that Jesus Christ not only existed 2000 years ago but that He is here now. For anyone who will receive Him. I got baptised, confirmed. I learned to pray and I find my prayers are answered. I have rebuilt my life and I am fine. I know I couldn't have done this without God's power with me.

As I talk to other Christians, I hear of the miracles of new life in their lives.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hi Frumious,
I have no science to offer. Evidence only of my own testimony.

I had no belief in God, I assumed it was all nonsense. Then things happened.

7 years ago I faced my husband's cancer death. I sat there and simply realised I needed God. I had nowhere else to go as my world caved in. So I prayed and everything suddenly changed. I felt strength, peace and comfort as I had never before known.
I felt a great power embraced me.
From that time I coped with everything. Life was still very difficult, but I had a power on my side that carried me.
I began church, reading the Bible. Learning all I could and talking to others. I realised that Jesus Christ not only existed 2000 years ago but that He is here now. For anyone who will receive Him. I got baptised, confirmed. I learned to pray and I find my prayers are answered. I have rebuilt my life and I am fine. I know I couldn't have done this without God's power with me.

As I talk to other Christians, I hear of the miracles of new life in their lives.

I'm sorry for your loss.

But there are some interesting commonalities in why people come to change their worldviews in traumatic times. As I mentioned above, we are predisposed to try and avoid uncertainty, it makes us anxious, even frightened.

There is little more anxiety-inducing than uncertainty about the future when your world has been turned upside-down by a traumatic event, and the uncertainty of a random or unpredictable traumatic event is itself traumatic. We like to have reasons, explanations for things; 'stuff happens' is neither a reason nor an explanation. We want significant events to have significant causes, and if we don't see them we'll try to find them. We're predisposed to look for clear and simple explanations, ones that remove the uncertainties, and we're inclined to look no further when we get one.

Another thing to throw into the pot is - the attribution of agency; when we look for causes of or reasons for unexplained events, we're predisposed to think in terms of agency, i.e. the influence of some benign or malicious entity or entities, human or otherwise. From Lady luck, the fates, fortune, gremlins, faeries, etc, of superstition, to the gods, angels, devils, and demons of religious beliefs, we personify the unexplained.

Also, being social creatures, we tend to seek out the company of others like us. They give us emotional support, reinforce our viewpoints, increase our certainties, and decrease our anxieties.

The power of beliefs should not be underestimated too - people can literally worry themselves sick, or become suicidal in depression; equally, the effect of engaging with like-minded people, and the relief of having anxieties lifted, can be incredibly positive and life-affirming.

These predispositions, heuristics, and biases underlie a lot of human behaviour, from the everyday - such as superstitions, to the more significant - such as conspiracy theories, cults, and, of course, religions and religious beliefs. We are most susceptible to their influences when traumatised, when the rational veneer of normal life is disrupted by life-changing circumstances.

It is arguable that these predispositions, heuristics, and biases evolved because they helped us make quick decisions and act with certainty in tumultuous and uncertain times; they clearly did not evolve because they helped us discover the truth.

 

[Grace2022]

Hi. I take all that on board.
Yet, what if there ARE reasons for everything? What if God does exist and Jesus IS real?
What if, it is that simple?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Hi. I take all that on board.
Yet, what if there ARE reasons for everything? What if God does exist and Jesus IS real?
What if, it is that simple?

Then he's got a lot of explaining to do.

 

[Grace2022]

No God hasn't. All the answers are in the Bible, in the 4 Gospels. Start with John and consider the implications and magnitude of Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself for us. Consider the numerous healings Jesus was seen to perform.

Never mind other people and their opinions. What matters is what YOU think as you read the eye Witnesses accounts of Jesus's life, which is what the gospels are.

 

[Grace2022]

Ps I recommend listening to Nicky Gumbel of HTB church, find on YouTube. His testimony of becoming a Christian is very helpful to listen to. He began the Alpha Courses which are an excellent introduction to Christianity. I hope that helps your curiosity.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hi. I take all that on board.
Yet, what if there ARE reasons for everything? What if God does exist and Jesus IS real?
What if, it is that simple?

It depends what you mean by reasons - it's not even clear that the arrow of time and cause & effect are fundamental. It's absurdly anthropocentric to suppose that some all-powerful thinking entity created and/or runs the universe, let alone for our benefit (although many earlier gods were disinterested in human affairs).

What if Zeus or Baldur or Osiris or Kaminokaze or any of the thousands of other gods that have been worshipped at one time or other were real? what if Valhalla or Olympus, or Pagan Summerland... really DOES exist?

In that case, as I said before, I would expect the world to reflect that; it doesn't. The world is exactly as one would expect if religions were human inventions. One 'tell' is faith, trust or belief in the absence of evidence. If the supernatural claims of religion were true (any religion), I would expect some unambiguous evidence for them.

As it is, there have been thousands of different religions with a wide variety of supernatural claims and entities, often directly contradictory. They clearly can't all be correct, but there's no evidence that any of them are, and no clear indication of exactly what each belief system entails - which is why so many persist and why there are so many competing & conflicting schisms & branches (I think Emo Philips's funniest religious joke of all time sums it up nicely).

On the contrary, there's clear evidence that humans construct religions, invent supernatural claims, and imagine supernatural entities at the drop of a hat - and large numbers of people are inclined to believe them, however weird and fantastical the claims. It shows just how powerful is our drive to believe in the mystical, magical, and/or supernatural to explain what we can't explain, and the social 'groupthink' that reinforces it.

There is another reason for this that I haven't mentioned - our enthusiasm for stories; not for nothing have we been called 'Homo narrans' (storytelling man). In the days of mainly oral cultures, storytelling was a way to transfer cultural and moral foundations, traditions, and history, and to make them memorable and interesting, with heroes, villains, beasts, magical entities, and everyman as actors. I suspect that, in those times, the distinction between fact and fiction, fantasy and reality, was less explicit, and there was less need for it.

We tend to think of the stories behind other, less familiar, belief systems as 'weird' or 'crazy', but that's really just a question of familiarity - when you disinterestedly consider the basic stories underlying the most popular versions of Christianity and most other major religions, they're no less weird or crazy than those of Raelism, Cao Dai, or Scientology.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

No God hasn't. All the answers are in the Bible, in the 4 Gospels. Start with John and consider the implications and magnitude of Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself for us. Consider the numerous healings Jesus was seen to perform.

Never mind other people and their opinions. What matters is what YOU think as you read the eye Witnesses accounts of Jesus's life, which is what the gospels are.

I don't know what you're referring to in the first paragraph - it helps if you quote the section of the post you're responding to. Also, if you use the quote feature, I'll get a notification of it.

There's considerable debate whether the gospels are eye-witness accounts, but they differ in significant respects and there is very little, if any, independent corroboration of the events described beyond the basic history of the time, and much of that is incorrect.

In biblical times, there were many prophets and holy men, and many claims of wisdom and miraculous works. It doesn't seem so surprising that one was a radical thinker as well as charismatic, and his ideas caught on. Followers love to enhance the reputation of their leader with tall stories and exaggerations. The fact that a new belief system spread to become major doesn't make it credible, and many of the ideas and stories in Christianity were recycled from previous belief systems & stories.

Even today, there are gurus in India that are worshipped for their holiness and the many claims of wondrous miracles they have performed, none of which can be verified. Plus ca change...

 

[Tinker Grey]

I don't know what you're referring to in the first paragraph - it helps if you quote the section of the post you're responding to. Also, if you use the quote feature, I'll get a notification of it.

There's considerable debate whether the gospels are eye-witness accounts, but they differ in significant respects and there is very little, if any, independent corroboration of the events described beyond the basic history of the time, and much of that is incorrect.

In biblical times, there were many prophets and holy men, and many claims of wisdom and miraculous works. It doesn't seem so surprising that one was a radical thinker as well as charismatic, and his ideas caught on. Followers love to enhance the reputation of their leader with tall stories and exaggerations. Even today, there are gurus in India that are worshipped for their holiness and the many claims of wondrous miracles they have performed, none of which can be verified.

I think she may have been responding to me.