A Pondering of the Peculiar

[anyathesword]

You said a mouthful: "if you want to". If you want to enough you can believe anything. That's why scientists rely on evidence rather than emotional need as a basis for finding out about reality. Emotional need is totally, utterly unreliable.

Yes only the physical world, that's right. But unfortunatly we live in more dimensions than meets the eye.

That's where science can not go because it's a baby.

 

[anyathesword]

Why is that? What evidence did I have before I believed? You think we all had evidence before we believed? Your criterion is a dead end street. The only thing we had was a love reserved for God if we were ever to find God.

Its not about being blase. "Oh! There is finally evidence! Now I will believe. "

When you fall in love? You did not need evidence before you did. You found yourself in love. And, some others who have have failed to find love? Who had dissipated themselves in their frantic search to make love happen in their lives? They had become calloused and apathetic towards the thought of love. Some may demand that you prove to them it is love, and that you are just not acting. Should you try?

Yes good analogy about love, so true!!

 

[GenemZ]

Without evidence you have no way of knowing you aren't deluding yourself.

Oh! There will be evidence! It will be its own evidence! But nothing that could be duplicated in a lab for others to experience.

People usually fall in love with real people. The evidence is right there in front of them. It can be independently verified. If it's love yourself you are doubting than we have this thing called the endocrine system and a hormone called oxytocin. Plenty of evidence for that and its effects. So you'll need to try and find a better analogy.

Please... Don't confuse lust and having compatibility with true love. Lust with compatibility has been known to create great emotional and hormonal responses.

I wonder if that dog who mounts and begins hugging a human's leg is also producing oxytocin. Anyone ever test for it?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Yes only the physical world, that's right. But unfortunatly we live in more dimensions than meets the eye.

Really? Are you going to invoke string theory now?

That's where science can not go because it's a baby.

Actually, the imagination and the emotions aren't quite such a closed book as you think.

 

[Sayre]

Sigh... I hate it when I agree with atheists more than theists. The dissonance... it kills me.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Oh! There will be evidence! It will be its own evidence! But nothing that could be duplicated in a lab for others to experience.

Ah, there will be evidence will there? That's nice. When is this evidence going to pop up? Oh, it can't be duplicated, i.e. independently verified. Still no way of knowing you aren't deluding yourself then. You're back to square one again.

Please... Don't confuse lust and having compatibility with true love. Lust with compatibility has been known to create great emotional and hormonal responses.

Love and oxytocin. Look it up.

I wonder if that dog who mounts and begins hugging a human's leg is also producing oxytocin. Anyone ever test for it?

Quite possibly. Amongst other hormones. Stick enough of the right chemical in the appropriate place in the brain and you can make mammals like you and me feel almost anything.

You might find this interesting:
The science of love.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/love/

 

[GenemZ]

That's where science can not go because it's a baby.

Science does not think, nor have feelings. Its simply a tool. A tool that can be used for either good, or evil.

For example... science can not enjoy good music.

Measuring the hormones produced in people while enjoying good music? Will not make someone who does not like music, if injected with that hormone while listening to music, to make him like music.

 

[GenemZ]

Ah, there will be evidence will there? That's nice. When is this evidence going to pop up? Oh, it can't be duplicated, i.e. independently verified. Still no way of knowing you aren't deluding yourself then. You're back to square one again

Others who have truly found true love... do not require your so called need for evidence. They have witnessed to the evidence. They also can know it in others when they see it.

Those who fail to find true love take on an attitude like yours. Sad to see that is the case. God is love. He produces love in a person... without oxytocin. Oxytocin is a result of physical love, not a cause. Other things as well can cause the production of oxytocin.

Love and oxytocin . Look it up.

I know what it is.

Infatuation (which is not love) produces an abundance of oxytocin.

Its not proof of love. Its an animal drive hormone. It does not prove love is real. Only that the pleasures of sex and attraction are real... and among the other things, it effects in both animal and human functions.

Virtually all vertebrates have an oxytocin-like nonapeptide hormone that supports reproductive functions and a vasopressin-like nonapeptide hormone involved in water regulation.

Oxytocin​

 

[AV1611VET]

If god would actually be willing to answer, I do have a lot of questions to ask. God, not the bible, god would have to personally be willing to answer.

So did others.

Mark 15:4 And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.

What would be your reaction if He refused to do so?

Please answer this specifically, as I'm curious how you would react, should Jesus not meet your expectations.

I'll bet you never even thought about it.

People can talk big before the LORD shows up.

I'm wondering if they have a contingency plan after He shows up.

It is my contention that, in the heat of the moment, you would shout: AWAY WITH HIM!

But I could be wrong.

 

[Sayre]

The New Testament is better organized than the Old Testament, which is why many creationists refer to it rather than the Old Testament when arguing in favor of the bible. It is to be expected, the books of the Old Testament were written as independent religious texts that would later be forced together into one text. And whoever edited it, if it was even edited for consistency, didn't do a good job.

I suspect the editing was done by Ezra. Though I'm not sure we really appreciate what Ezra was trying to achieve. Given the editing was achieved very much in a pre-enlightenment era, and that their understanding of the importance of stories and myth and "history" (which isn't the same thing as our modern idea of history) I don't know that we are in a position to judge how well Ezra achieved his task.

For example, when the two creation accounts were put together, and the two flood accounts smashed together - was Ezra really trying to blend them seamlessly into the appearance of one account? I doubt it. I don't think the surface level details were of much concern to Ezra, as we see in the fact that the OT contradicts itself when read literally.

IMHO Ezra was doing something else. Piecing together, from a variety of sources (JEPD and all that) of Israel's past in order to give them a hope for the future. Who cares how long the creation of the earth took and whether or not man was created before animals... that isn't the point. The point is that Israel has a common thread, a common hope going forwards.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Others who have truly found true love... do not require your so called need for evidence. They have witnessed to the evidence. They also can know it in others when they see it.

Those who fail to find true love take on an attitude like yours. Sad to see that is the case. God is love. He produces love in a person... without oxytocin. Oxytocin is a result of physical love, not a cause. Other things as well can cause the production of oxytocin.

Ah, your love is special and has nothing to do with chemicals in your brain. I see. And your evidence to back up this bizarre assertion is....because you want it to be so. Good luck with that.

I know what it is.

No, clearly you don't.

Infatuation (which is not love) produces an abundance of oxytocin.

That is one stage of falling in love.

Its not proof of love. Its an animal drive hormone.

You must get over this idea that you experience things other than what is happening in the slosh of chemicals between your ears.

It does not prove love is real.

The existence of love isn't the question. It is what makes love feel like it does that is of interest.

Only that the pleasures of sex and attraction are real

Well, love and sexual attraction are driven by the same system, just different washes of hormones regulating them, so we know they are both equally real.

... and among the other things, it effects in both animal and human functions.

Virtually all vertebrates have an oxytocin-like nonapeptide hormone that supports reproductive functions and a vasopressin-like nonapeptide hormone involved in water regulation.

Oxytocin​

Humans are animals, which is why (surprise, surprise) the same system that uses emotions to drive behaviour in other mammals is found in humans.

Look, I know you don't want it to be so, because it upsets your religious fantasies, but hormones regulate your feelings during love and long-term pair bonding.

And because I've noticed that these things have to be actually thrust under the noses of those who have a deep emotional requirement not to see them, I will post the link in full:


Three Stages of Falling in Love

Stage 1: Lust
Lust is driven by the sex hormones testosterone and oestrogen. Testosterone is not confined only to men. It has also been shown to play a major role in the sex drive of women. These hormones as Helen Fisher says "get you out looking for anything".
Stage 2: Attraction
This is the truly love-struck phase. When people fall in love they can think of nothing else. They might even lose their appetite and need less sleep, preferring to spend hours at a time daydreaming about their new lover.
In the attraction stage, a group of neuro-transmitters called 'monoamines' play an important role:

• Dopamine - Also activated by cocaine and nicotine.
• Norepinephrine - Otherwise known as adrenalin. Starts us sweating and gets the heart racing.
• Serotonin - One of love's most important chemicals and one that may actually send us temporarily insane.

Discover which type of partner you're attracted to by taking our face perception test.
Stage 3: Attachment
This is what takes over after the attraction stage, if a relationship is going to last. People couldn't possibly stay in the attraction stage forever, otherwise they'd never get any work done!
Attachment is a longer lasting commitment and is the bond that keeps couples together when they go on to have children. Important in this stage are two hormones released by the nervous system, which are thought to play a role in social attachments:

• Oxytocin - This is released by the hypothalamus gland during child birth and also helps the breast express milk. It helps cement the strong bond between mother and child. It is also released by both sexes during [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and it is thought that it promotes bonding when adults are intimate. The theory goes that the more sex a couple has, the deeper their bond becomes
• Vasopressin - Another important chemical in the long-term commitment stage. It is an important controller of the kidney and its role in long-term relationships was discovered when scientists looked at the prairie vole

Find out how the three stages can feel even stronger for teenagers in love, experiencing first love and first sex.

BBC Science | Human Body & Mind | Science of Love

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Science does not think, nor have feelings. Its simply a tool. A tool that can be used for either good, or evil.

For example... science can not enjoy good music.

Measuring the hormones produced in people while enjoying good music? Will not make someone who does not like music, if injected with that hormone while listening to music, to make him like music.

Lol, I could make a joke here about the drug ecstasy, but I doubt you'd see the funny side.

 

[anyathesword]

A huge mistake!!!!!!!!

Hades and hell are 2 different places, but both are in the earth.

Hades is where all unbelievers and believers BEFORE Jesus' death go. And all unbelievers today go.

God is coming back again right? So Jesus will come again to bring those believers such as Abraham to Heaven.

The unbelievers will be judged one more time and have one more chance to believe in God in Hades.

Finally Hades will be thrown into Hell, the Lake of Fire in the end times.

http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/~remnant/hades.htm

Sorry for this mistake, I kept thinking of Abraham and Hades and the fact that Jesus will come back to bring them out of there.

 

[Black Akuma]

Hades and hell are 2 different places, but both are in the earth.

What layers?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Hades and hell are 2 different places, but both are in the earth.

So we could visit these places if we had a big enough drill to bore down with could we?

 

[SkyWriting]

Hades and hell are 2 different places, but both are in the earth.

"In the earth" may not mean exactly what most think.
Try "Of the Earth" and I think you'll be more accurate.

The scripture writers were not intending to create mapping instructions
for the google earth camera squad.

 

[PsychoSarah]

So did others.

Mark 15:4 And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.

What would be your reaction if He refused to do so?

Please answer this specifically, as I'm curious how you would react, should Jesus not meet your expectations.

I'll bet you never even thought about it.

People can talk big before the LORD shows up.

I'm wondering if they have a contingency plan after He shows up.

It is my contention that, in the heat of the moment, you would shout: AWAY WITH HIM!

But I could be wrong.

Jesus and god have already not met my expectations. To such an extent that I doubt their legitimacy. Actually meeting them, even if they would completely reject meaningful interaction with me, would still only increase their legitimacy in my eyes (considering that even if it were just Jesus, if it were provably him, he has been dead for thousands of years, so it would be an actual miracle).

But, I am not talking big. Do you have any idea how depressing it is to think that when people die they are gone forever, and that eventually you too shall be gone? It is agony sometimes, as that thought keeps me awake at night. I think of the loved ones that died as gone.

It is a worse feeling then you could ever imagine, I take no pleasure in being atheist, but I cannot force myself to believe something just because I want it to be true.

 

[AV1611VET]

Jesus and god have already not met my expectations. To such an extent that I doubt their legitimacy. Actually meeting them, even if they would completely reject meaningful interaction with me, would still only increase their legitimacy in my eyes (considering that even if it were just Jesus, if it were provably him, he has been dead for thousands of years, so it would be an actual miracle).

But, I am not talking big. Do you have any idea how depressing it is to think that when people die they are gone forever, and that eventually you too shall be gone? It is agony sometimes, as that thought keeps me awake at night. I think of the loved ones that died as gone.

It is a worse feeling then you could ever imagine, I take no pleasure in being atheist, but I cannot force myself to believe something just because I want it to be true.

Alright if I pray for you from time to time?

 

[PsychoSarah]

A huge mistake!!!!!!!!

Hades and hell are 2 different places, but both are in the earth.

Hades is where all unbelievers and believers BEFORE Jesus' death go. And all unbelievers today go.

God is coming back again right? So Jesus will come again to bring those believers such as Abraham to Heaven.

The unbelievers will be judged one more time and have one more chance to believe in God in Hades.

Finally Hades will be thrown into Hell, the Lake of Fire in the end times.

Salvation for the Dead (Second Chance Theology) - Hades is not Hell

Sorry for this mistake, I kept thinking of Abraham and Hades and the fact that Jesus will come back to bring them out of there.

Hades is the Greek god, the place is called the underworld. Hades and hell are sometimes used synonymously, but what is being thrown into the lake of fire is the god Hades, not the place. Also, the underworld of Greek myth contains all after life's, the good, the bad (very similar to hell, called Tartarus), and the neutral afterlife that isn't particularly good or bad (the Greeks believed that the majority of people were not particularly good or bad, and experienced this limbo like afterlife).

And then their was the epically good afterlife, reserved for souls who had achieved the level of benevolence needed for the good afterlife 3 times in a row (people who tired of the afterlife could have their memories erased and be reborn).

 

[bhsmte]

You do not see the evidence because you are blinded.

What makes me any more special to see evidence (creation) and people's testimonies than you are?

Actually I never thought about this, only recently. But another evidence for God that you could feel is by going to a huge Christian conference. I've been to a few and they are powerful!!! When you worship and pray, you will feel something powerful tugging at your heart. When you see how much people commit their lives to follow Jesus and try to get as many souls as possible, it's amazing.

Maybe try to go to one if you want to see evidence besides being outside and listening to people's changed lives.

What makes you see the evidence in your own mind?

BECAUSE YOU DESPERATELY WANT TO!!!