A Pondering of the Peculiar (2)

[Black Akuma]

It appears from what is written that Hell is located somewhere below a sea area.

So if we dug deep enough in a certain area, we could actually get to hell?

 

[GenemZ]

Dude, I understand the concept. But that's not what Anya seems to be saying.

Anya isn't using conventions.

She's saying it's ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY THERE. Those were her own words. She is, in no uncertain terms that hell is in the Earth.

She is agreeing with the Bible. You want to fault her for that? Come on! You're an atheist! Are you suppose to believe it? No. We know that. But, you asked. So, we told you. If you only want answers you are going to approve of? Don't ask next time.

 

[GenemZ]

It's not a moot point. You asked for documentation here:

And, I got it.

Yet, the whole issue is a moot point. For, there was no need for having a shaft to begin with, to get unregenerate souls into Hades. The argument began and was based upon a false premise. Now, the Abyss is another story. That is not Hell.

I simply provided it.

And, I thank you..

 

[PsychoSarah]

She is agreeing with the Bible. You want to fault her for that? Come on! You're an atheist! Are you suppose to believe it? No. We know that. But, you asked. So, we told you. If you only want answers you are going to approve of? Don't ask next time.

The issue is that we can prove that hell is not a physical place within the earth (I suppose if you want to get all supernatural about it, you could say it occupies the same space on another physical plane) and therefore someone LIVING could never get there.

 

[Loudmouth]

How could I ever demonstrate what you ask of me? And, why the requirement to? For...

The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come
from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he
cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

(1 Cor 2:14)



​

The Greek word that was translated.. "foolishness," is a Greek word from which we derive the term 'moronic.'

The Bible makes sure to let those Christians naive enough to think they can reason with your likes - on the terms you have set before me - would be a total waste of time and only used against me if you could find a way.. You are not as smart as you think you are. For you only base your ability upon your comparison with other men. Not, with what you remain oblivious to.

I only try to answer questions that I believe you may have some capacity for receiving. And, even the ones I have tried, I do not think you do. As its becoming evident by your responses.

A christian who tells us that we are foolish for not believing as they do. Wow, that sure is convincing.

[turns sarcasm off]

 

[PsychoSarah]

A christian who tells us that we are foolish for not believing as they do. Wow, that sure is convincing.

[turns sarcasm off]

Nah, leave it on, you'll need it later.

 

[GenemZ]

The issue is that we can prove that hell is not a physical place within the earth (I suppose if you want to get all supernatural about it, you could say it occupies the same space on another physical plane) and therefore someone LIVING could never get there.

Tell you what. Send me a post card when you get there. Then we will know. Is that what you want to hear?

Jesus Christ must open your heart before you can see anything, even if we are wrong about this issue.

Well.. There is Hades beneath the earth somewhere. How can we know? God does not lie. But, first you have to know that God is not a lie. That is the problem.

In our eyes, what you are doing? Is like a deaf man sitting in someone's living room, and insisting that he turn down his stereo. You are not in position to even know what you claim were true, if it were true! That is the raw irony of arguing with you over something you can not know. Then you insist that we tell you how we can know? Its crazy to argue over what you are not in the position (spiritually) to know.

How can you try to tell us things that do not pertain to your ability to know? You want to get us to see things from a perspective that can not see the real issue.

Now, tell me what the following means? If you can? Then I will be able to listen to you about what you have to say about Hell.

Matthew 8:21-23
​

Then another of His disciples said to Him,
“Lord, let me first go and bury my father.
”But Jesus said to him,
“Follow Me, and let the dead bury
their own dead.”
​

Ephesians 2:1-2a

And you He made alive, who were dead
in trespasses and sins, in which you used to
live when you followed the ways of this world.


​

Can you tell us what those passages are telling us?

Start there. Then, you can begin to establish yourself as having ability to be seen as a possible expert on the topic of Hell. In the mean time, dogmatic guessing does nothing for us.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Tell you what. Send me a post card when you get there. Then we will know. Is that what you want to hear?

Jesus Christ must open your heart before you can see anything, even if we are wrong about this issue.

Well.. There is Hades beneath the earth somewhere. How can we know? God does not lie. But, first you have to know that God is not a lie. That is the problem.

In our eyes, what you are doing? Is like a deaf man sitting in someone's living room, and insisting that he turn down his stereo. You are not in position to even know what you claim were true, if it were true! That is the raw irony of arguing with you over something you can not know. Then you insist that we tell you how we can know? Its crazy to argue over what you are not in the position (spiritually) to know.

How can you try to tell us things that do not pertain to your ability to know? You want to get us to see things from a perspective that can not see the real issue.

Now, tell me what the following means? If you can? Then I will be able to listen to you about what you have to say about Hell.

Matthew 8:21-23
​

Then another of His disciples said to Him,
“Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”But Jesus said to him,

“Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
​

Ephesians 2:1-2a

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways
of this world.


​

Can you tell us what those passages tell us? Start there. Then, you can begin to establish yourself as having ability to be seen as an expert on the topic of Hell. In the mean time, dogmatic guessing does nothing for us.

In my eyes I see a self-righteous old man who lowers all that share his beliefs with his rudeness and arrogance, who is having to exert effort to contend in a discussion with people less than half his age.

 

[bhsmte]

Tell you what. Send me a post card when you get there. Then we will know. Is that what you want to hear?

Jesus Christ must open your heart before you can see anything, even if we are wrong about this issue.

Well.. There is Hades beneath the earth somewhere. How can we know? God does not lie. But, first you have to know that God is not a lie. That is the problem.

In our eyes, what you are doing? Is like a deaf man sitting in someone's living room, and insisting that he turn down his stereo. You are not in position to even know what you claim were true, if it were true! That is the raw irony of arguing with you over something you can not know. Then you insist that we tell you how we can know? Its crazy to argue over what you are not in the position (spiritually) to know.

How can you try to tell us things that do not pertain to your ability to know? You want to get us to see things from a perspective that can not see the real issue.

Now, tell me what the following means? If you can? Then I will be able to listen to you about what you have to say about Hell.

Matthew 8:21-23
​

Then another of His disciples said to Him,
“Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”But Jesus said to him,

“Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
​

Ephesians 2:1-2a

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways
of this world.


​

Can you tell us what those passages tell us? Start there. Then, you can begin to establish yourself as having ability to be seen as an expert on the topic of Hell. In the mean time, dogmatic guessing does nothing for us.

Scripture interpretation is a dime a dozen. And since, there is no objective evidence to support one interpretation over another, it isn't a coincidence, that many decide to choose the interpretation, that best fits their personal agenda.

 

[GenemZ]

A christian who tells us that we are foolish for not believing as they do. Wow, that sure is convincing.

[turns sarcasm off]

You read it backwards. Try again. It says that the Christian is the one who is seen as speaking moronic words by you. But, your response now has me wondering as to whom it pertains!

 

[selfinflikted]

Genez,

After having read several of your posts in this thread, I notice you have on multiple occasions alluded to having gotten some kind of super powers from belief in god. In other words, you must first believe to be able to "see."

Do you really not understand the problem with this?

(and I don't for one second think that Christians are somehow more "aware" or however else you want to say it, of the supernatural.)

 

[GenemZ]

Scripture interpretation is a dime a dozen. And since, there is no objective evidence to support one interpretation over another, it isn't a coincidence, that many decide to choose the interpretation, that best fits their personal agenda.

Translation:

You are incapable. Therefore, everyone else must also be incapable.



That why Jesus said?

John 8:32

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”



.
​

 

[PsychoSarah]

Translation:

You are incapable. Therefore, everyone else must also be incapable.



That why Jesus said?

John 8:32

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”



.
​

Yeah, but he forgot to mention that thinking you know everything would also make you an insufferable, egotistical person.

 

[bhsmte]

Translation:

You are incapable. Therefore, everyone else must also be incapable.



That why Jesus said?

John 8:32

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”



.
​

Don't tell me, it is you who decides who is capable of interpreting the bible correctly? And, I'd bet, you choose the one that fits your personal beliefs the best and call all the other interpretations are wrong.

Heck, even the devout evangelical biblical scholars, can't agree on interpretation on some major points and they are all over the map.

Reminds me of this famous Susan B. Anthony quote:

“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
― Susan B. Anthony

 

[GenemZ]

Genez,

After having read several of your posts in this thread, I notice you have on multiple occasions alluded to having gotten some kind of super powers from belief in god. In other words, you must first believe to be able to "see."

If you were blind? And, were cured?

Does that mean you received super powers?

No. It means you simply became normal.

God designed man to be spiritually alive. Adam's sin caused the spiritual death of all. That is why Jesus told Nicodemus that they who could not determine what he was, need to be born again.

The first time you were born body and soul. Physical birth. Dichotomous.

The second time you become body, soul, and human spirit. Spiritual birth. This issue concerning the Holy Spirit is unique to the Church age only. The believers in the Torah were also born again. Moses became body, soul, and human spirit. A tricotomous being.

Its not super powers. It what man was originally designed for by God.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If you were blind? And, were cured?

Does that mean you received super powers?

No. It means you simply became normal.

God designed man to be spiritually alive. Adam's sin caused the spiritual death of all. That is why Jesus told Nicodemus that they who could not determine what he was, need to be born again.

The first time you were born body and soul. Physical birth. Dichotomous.

The second time you become body, soul, and human spirit. Spiritual birth. This issue concerning the Holy Spirit is unique to the Church age only. The believers in the Torah were also born again. Moses became body, soul, and human spirit. A tricotomous being.

Its not super powers. It what man was originally designed for by God.

God called, he said allowing you into heaven would make it hell for other people. Sorry.

 

[GenemZ]

Don't tell me, it is you who decides who is capable of interpreting the bible correctly? And, I'd bet, you choose the one that fits your personal beliefs the best and call all the other interpretations are wrong.

Heck, even the devout evangelical biblical scholars, can't agree on interpretation on some major points and they are all over the map.

Reminds me of this famous Susan B. Anthony quote:

“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
― Susan B. Anthony

Boy... you got all the defensive soundbites lined up on your pond. And, you know nothing as you should. Nothing as you could.

 

[bhsmte]

Boy... you got all the defensive soundbites lined up on your pond. And, you know nothing as you should. Nothing as you could.

Boy...I like to deal in reality and part of that reality is recognizing there are people in this world that like to tell others how they should feel and what they should believe in and ignore any evidence that would state otherwise.

And, I am very familiar with psychological defense mechanisms, which are commonly seen on these boards.

 

[selfinflikted]

Translation:

You are incapable. Therefore, everyone else must also be incapable.

No, not really. Two points:

1) Those that are "capable" (as you put it) cannot show that they are. It's not like I'm the only one not seeing.

2) You have probably made the mistake that I, and many other atheists, weren't once Christian. Some of us were. I was. I didn't see things any differently then, than I do now. Except, of course, to understand now that the Bible is simply the product of superstitious man trying to make sense of the world around him, with whatever tools he had at his disposal at the time (which were very few).

ETA: I almost forgot: You obviously do notsee the problem with first believing and then seeing. (it's called confirmation bias, btw)

 

[PsychoSarah]

Boy... you got all the defensive soundbites lined up on your pond. And, you know nothing as you should. Nothing as you could.

And their lies in that final sin
That man should think himself so high
To know completely god's every whim
And reach above to grasp the sky

But all they shall hold is empty air
The knowledge of god they shall not reach
God did not put heaven there
For those who don't practice what they preach

You inspired a poem genez. Even though I know that shall now enter the common domain, it was worth it.