A poll on birth control

[IndyRider]

Not to my knowledge, LOL.

I can say that I am pretty confused at this point. How can you and your husband hold differing views on birth control? Especially when you say if you use birth control, you are sinning? You have repented, but in your view your own husband is living in sin. How do you make these polarizing opinions mesh together into one marriage? How does your current husband currently feel about birth control?

 

[TwinCrier]

We hold different political views too, I'm a conservative republican, he's a liberal democrat. I don't demand that people believe exactly as I do to love them, do you?

 

[IndyRider]

We hold different political views too, I'm a conservative republican, he's a liberal democrat. I don't demand that people believe exactly as I do to love them, do you?

It is somewhat hard to understand how you believe that you are not using birth control and preaching against it, when your husband has a vesectomy. Whether you believe it or not, that is birth control, and it is what your husband and you as a couple have chosen to use. You may not be using it, but the spirit of the decision is that you, as a couple, will not have anymore of the precious "blessings" that you speak of. The rest of this disussion is semantics. I believe using birth control is fine. You may believe what you choose as it is a matter of conviction. There is no God ordained law that speaks to birth control. If there was, you and I would both be in the wrong.

 

[TwinCrier]

You don't understand. I am also divorced, yet I abhor divorce and would never dare say it's now OK, no longer a sin just because I committed it. I also have used the pill, lied, had premarital sex and a miriad of other sins I'm too ashamed to mentioned. But Praise the Lord I have been forgiven and washed clean. I can't undo my sin, but I can help save others from the pain of birth control. It's a deadly sin (Genesis 38:9) that degrades humanity on every level. Turns the beautiful God-given act of sex into a fruitless joyride.
Perhaps in heaven God will reveal the plans He had and we'll learn of the souls that never were because we refused to surrender out bodies to God.

 

[IndyRider]

You don't understand. I am also divorced, yet I abhor divorce and would never dare say it's now OK, no longer a sin just because I committed it. I also have used the pill, lied, had premarital sex and a miriad of other sins I'm too ashamed to mentioned. But Praise the Lord I have been forgiven and washed clean. I can't undo my sin, but I can help save others from the pain of birth control. It's a deadly sin (Genesis 38:9) that degrades humanity on every level. Turns the beautiful God-given act of sex into a fruitless joyride.
Perhaps in heaven God will reveal the plans He had and we'll learn of the souls that never were because we refused to surrender out bodies to God.

It's as simple as this....

1. You believe birth control is a sin.

2. From how I understand it, you are currently married to a man who has a vesectomy.

3. I don't believe that birth control is a sin.

4. I do believe that preaching conviction and living against your conviction is a sin.

Please correct me if I have missed something.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

She can't control what her husband has done. It sounds to me you blaming her for the actions of another. That doesn't make much sense to me.

It's as simple as this....

1. You believe birth control is a sin.

2. From how I understand it, you are currently married to a man who has a vesectomy.

3. I don't believe that birth control is a sin.

4. I do believe that preaching conviction and living against your conviction is a sin.

Please correct me if I have missed something.

 

[cubanito]

She can't control what her husband has done. It sounds to me you blaming her for the actions of another. That doesn't make much sense to me.

The operative verb tense there is "has", past tense. Wether vasectomies are wrong or not, they are for the most part irreversible. Thus twincrier is being consistent. Were her husband actively involved in ongoing behaviour that was sexually immoral there may well be a reason to separate. In addition, though rare, pregnancies have occured after vasectomies, for various reasons, and so intercourse with her husband still offers the slim chance of procreation.

BTW I have a vasectomy, with my wife's approval, and consider it no sin.

JR

 

[IndyRider]

BTW I have a vasectomy, with my wife's approval, and consider it no sin.

I am glad, cubanito, that you and your wife were able to come to an aggreement on the use of such a procedure. I too will be pursuing said procedure in the very near future.

The operative verb tense there is "has", past tense. Wether vasectomies are wrong or not, they are for the most part irreversible.

Many people would disagree with you on your stance that vesectomies are "for the most part irreversible." Check out some of the testimonials on vesectomyreversal.net for more information.

Thus twincrier is being consistent. Were her husband actively involved in ongoing behaviour that was sexually immoral there may well be a reason to separate.

As you and I have both stated, we don't believe getting a vesectomy to be immoral. I also believe that non-abortive contraception is definitely an option for Christians. Where TwinCrier and I, and I assume you, disagree is with the application of the convictions that have been displayed. This situation could be compared to someone getting some sort of piercing. After days/months/years of having the piercing that person becomes convicted that they should no longer have that piercing. Should they take out the stud or leave it since it was already placed there years ago?

In addition, though rare, pregnancies have occured after vasectomies, for various reasons, and so intercourse with her husband still offers the slim chance of procreation.

This does not change the initial reason for the vesectomy. If there is such a strong conviction about contraception, they should be encouraged to not "keep wearing the piercing" and get the procedure she finds a sin reversed.

 

[TwinCrier]

I am glad, cubanito, that you and your wife were able to come to an aggreement on the use of such a procedure. I too will be pursuing said procedure in the very near future.



Many people would disagree with you on your stance that vesectomies are "for the most part irreversible." Check out some of the testimonials on vesectomyreversal.net for more information.



As you and I have both stated, we don't believe getting a vesectomy to be immoral. I also believe that non-abortive contraception is definitely an option for Christians. Where TwinCrier and I, and I assume you, disagree is with the application of the convictions that have been displayed. This situation could be compared to someone getting some sort of piercing. After days/months/years of having the piercing that person becomes convicted that they should no longer have that piercing. Should they take out the stud or leave it since it was already placed there years ago?



This does not change the initial reason for the vesectomy. If there is such a strong conviction about contraception, they should be encouraged to not "keep wearing the piercing" and get the procedure she finds a sin reversed.

How would you suggest I go about reversing my husband's vasectomy? He doesn't want it reversed, so should I use ether to knock him out then drag his body to a doctor who will perform elective surgery without patient consent? You piercing scenario is grand. The person definitely should not continue to wear earrings when their convictions tell them piercing is wrong, but the hole will remain, as with tattoos. I know many Christians who bear tattoos because they do not desire to waste the money and suffer the pain involved to replace it with scar tissue. However, in this case, it's not even my body or my sin that has left the mark. I believe perhaps you are so vapid about proving me a hypocrite as to not be forced to intellectually examine this issue by your own conscious and in light of scripture. I recognize this tactic because I used it against Catholics in debate over this very same issue.

 

[IndyRider]

How would you suggest I go about reversing my husband's vasectomy? He doesn't want it reversed, so should I use ether to knock him out then drag his body to a doctor who will perform elective surgery without patient consent? You piercing scenario is grand. The person definitely should not continue to wear earrings when their convictions tell them piercing is wrong, but the hole will remain, as with tattoos. I know many Christians who bear tattoos because they do not desire to waste the money and suffer the pain involved to replace it with scar tissue. However, in this case, it's not even my body or my sin that has left the mark. I believe perhaps you are so vapid about proving me a hypocrite as to not be forced to intellectually examine this issue by your own conscious and in light of scripture. I recognize this tactic because I used it against Catholics in debate over this very same issue.

The convictions we are given by God are worth obeying to the fullest no matter how much money or pain is involved.

In closing, it is quite obvious you are not going to answer my question that I have been asking from the beginning (How does your current life situation align with your conviction on birth control?) I know you feel as though you have answered it, but from my perspective you have not. Quite frankly, you don't have to answer the question, because I am not your judge. You have made your stand against my view by saying that my views are not Biblical or intellectual enough to debate properly. I apologize if I have upset you in any way. This will be my final post on this thread.

 

[TwinCrier]

How does your current life situation align with your conviction on birth control?

I believe I did answer it, but for clarification, in case you come back, it doesn't. See post 84 for the explanation. In short, I have committed sins that in your eyes are far worse than this one. You don't seem to argue that divorce is wrong, yet you also don't demand I remarry my ex-husband. Some sins can be fixed, some can't. Unless you are offering to pay for my current husband's vasectomy as we have no health insurance and are a one income family of six, I guess you really don't have anything else to say. Though you probably have deadened that prick to your conscious you obviously felt on this subject.

I don't really think you were trying to convince me to force my husband to have a reversal, I think you were trying to convince yourself that birth control is alright because you were having your doubts.

 

[cubanito]

Twincrier, I can't see where you're a hypocrite on this. But I do have a question.

How did you come to be married to someone that you disagree with so much?

Please ignore the question if you think it too personal.

JR

 

[cooloola]

Interesting read. The thread, I mean.

I am very much for birth control. Not the pill, because it causes cancer, but that's another issue.

Times change, as much as some of us seem to rather they wouldn't. Boys and girls do, and always have done, I might add, it simply wasn't socially acceptable not so long ago, partake in sex before marriage. A child just cannot be a possible outcome, if neither is equipped to care for it, or simply if neither wishes to.

Also, sex is for pleasure. If it were not for pleasure, it would not BE pleasurable. A child cannot be created every time someone has sex. The world is overpopulated as it is.

No, I am not going to reference that with scripture or something. *insert rolling eyes here*

I am capable of an opinion all my own.

 

[TwinCrier]

Twincrier, I can't see where you're a hypocrite on this. But I do have a question.

How did you come to be married to someone that you disagree with so much?

Please ignore the question if you think it too personal.

JR

Not too personal. I love him because he treats me with a profound respect and dignity despite our disagreements on things that are of a carnal nature. Like Aruna, jetgirl and MichaelFJF and a few others on this forum, I get along better with them then I do with some people, like a certain person in this thread, who agree with me in far more ways on more issues. I would rather debate with someone who is fair and polite then someone who gets so heated over one single issue they attack you relentlessly then report you for flaming when you respond. Love isn't agreeing with someone on every issue, but remembering that the person you counter is indeed still a person.

 

[cubanito]

Thanks, I would hope to reflect the same attitude.

JR

 

[BeHis]

Thx.