A poll on birth control

[JCrawf]

Please check out and vote the following poll, and comment if you feel like it, both here and in the thread in the link.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1538481-is-birth-control-for-christians-okay-2.htmlhttp://www.christianforums.com/t2658685-poll-on-birth-control.html

Pax Vobiscum,

John

 

[lismore]

Malachi 2:15
Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring.

 

[JCrawf]

Malachi 2:15
Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring.

Pax Tecum,

John

 

[Svt4Him]

That is a classic example of taking a verse out of context. Can you explain what exactly that means to you lismore?

 

[lismore]

That is a classic example of taking a verse out of context. Can you explain what exactly that means to you lismore?

A lovely little baby has lots of potential.

 

[Svt4Him]

I agree. Now that has nothing to do with b/c.

 

[Shane Roach]

I agree. Now that has nothing to do with b/c.

:s

Okay, the deal is that there is more to life than pleasure seaking. A person who is "seeking Godly offspring" is a person who, aware of that, doesn't take sex as merely something to be done for pleasure.

Something that is lost on modern culture is that having children isn't really supposed to be a BAD thing, and controlling how many you have is not necessarily a GOOD thing. It reminds me of the concept of a sacrifice of appeasement. We have fewer children because we fear angering the earth, so to speak, in the sense of straining resources or making it hard to have enough money so that we can afford all the neat things money can buy.

The Bible has many references to children being a blessing, not the curse we are taught they are today. That's what the reference, "he was seeking Godly offspring," says to me.

It's also interesting to me that while western cultures, which have this wonderful Christian heritage but who have abandoned its Spirit, are wasting away due to a refusal to have children or allow the spread of their ideas, and so in areas where there are no such compunctions against having children, they are having many, and they are raised without the benefit of the centuries, of at the very least, lip service to the good behavior the Bible models. As a result we have genocides in Africa, religious intolerance in the Middle East (Jesus was the first to introduce the concept of the separation of church and state! Render unto Caesar...), and in China, the soulless denial of the Spirit's existence at all, and the usurpation of all matters of conscience by the state.

Can you lay that all on birth control? Maybe not... but you can lay a lot of it at the feet of the concept that children are a burden instead of an opportunity.

 

[lismore]

I agree. Now that has nothing to do with b/c.

Do you have more children if you practice b/c or if you dont?

The bible says children are a gift from God.

Where is your logic?

if you want b/c then have it, but dont bring God into the equation because the bible does not support your view.

 

[Svt4Him]

Do you have more children if you practice b/c or if you dont?

The bible says children are a gift from God.

Where is your logic?

if you want b/c then have it, but dont bring God into the equation because the bible does not support your view.

This is just plain faulty logic. My son got a gift from me. It's a good gift. That doesn't mean he has to have more in order to be complete. As a matter of fact, it takes nothing away from the gift he has.

And why someone chosing to not have a child equates to them thinking children are a curse is an equally faulty argument. Neither show that b/c is wrong.

Sex is for pleasure, sex is for comfort, sex is for procreation. To imply that one is more important than the other is a matter of personal choice, not Biblical instruction. Live your convictions, preach the word.

 

[lismore]

Sex is for pleasure, sex is for comfort, sex is for procreation.

Hi

Do you have a scriptural reference for that?

 

[Svt4Him]

Hi

Do you have a scriptural reference for that?

For which one exactly? Procreation is a given, pleasure read the Song, comfort read about David after his son died, release read about why it's not good to withhold sex lest the devil temps you. Do you want the actual verses?

 

[lismore]

For which one exactly? Procreation is a given, pleasure read the Song, comfort read about David after his son died, release read about why it's not good to withhold sex lest the devil temps you. Do you want the actual verses?

Pleasure.

Where in the Song does it mention contraception and where does it say the young couple was married?

 

[Svt4Him]

Pleasure.

Where in the Song does it mention contraception and where does it say the young couple was married?

And where does it talk about drinking? Sex was for pleasure, to add or take anything away from that is making Scripture fit a dogma. Sorry, I won't bite.

 

[crumbs2000]

I don't see anything wrong with a christian taking responsibility with contraception. Although sex should be a sacred thing, it's normal for people to be interested. Humans are human and whether they are christian or not, will explore their sexuality. People especially teenagers should educated themselves. No harm in knowing about the pill. The pill isn't always for sexual issues either, it could be for other health issues also.
No, I don't see anything wrong with it. Christianity should get with the modern times.

 

[TwinCrier]

Christianity should NOT get with the modern times. The world is getting more and more evil. The casual use of sex is a prime example.

 

[crumbs2000]

Christianity should NOT get with the modern times. The world is getting more and more evil. The casual use of sex is a prime example.

I hope you are not one of these people whom think sex is evil? Why shouldn't christianity get with the times - It's called PROGRESSION. You want Christianity to follow fundalmentalist Islam? I don't think so.

 

[TwinCrier]

I hope you are not one of these people whom think sex is evil? Why shouldn't christianity get with the times - It's called PROGRESSION. You want Christianity to follow fundalmentalist Islam? I don't think so.

No, fundamental Christianity should follow Fundamental Christianity, not Islam.

Sex isn't evil, adultry is. Birth control serves the purpose of that sin well.

 

[Shane Roach]

And why someone chosing to not have a child equates to them thinking children are a curse is an equally faulty argument. Neither show that b/c is wrong.

Sex is for pleasure, sex is for comfort, sex is for procreation. To imply that one is more important than the other is a matter of personal choice, not Biblical instruction. Live your convictions, preach the word.

A few things. First off, I do not think the use of birth control is necessarily a sin. What I was trying to do was express a way you might at least be able to relate to the response you seemed to have no understanding of.

Secondly, while using b/c may not mean you think children are a curse, as I think modern society teaches, it nevertheless says loud and clear that the child being prevented is certainly not looked at as a potential blessing.

Finally, I do agree that sex is for the things you say, but they are tied together, the pleasure, comfort, and procreation. You may not see indications that one is of a higher degree of importance than the others, but when God says, "be fruitful and multiply," and refrains from saying, "go, be pleasured and comforted," to me that indicates a certain heirarchy of importance.

Basically I see b/c as a sort of borderline thing that I would never pass some sort of judgement over but that I nevertheless do see as less pleasing than a man and woman coming together in trust of the Lord and letting nature take its course as they say. I've heard people try to pass this off as even being unresponsible, having a large family! I think the real motivation behind it is people see other human beings as competition rather than fellow brothers and sisters.

 

[crumbs2000]

No, fundamental Christianity should follow Fundamental Christianity, not Islam.

Sex isn't evil, adultry is. Birth control serves the purpose of that sin well.

Why do you think just adultry leads to pregnancy? This is so one sided. So you don't believe in education either. Are you for birth control or against, can't tell because you seem clouded.

Do you know what I mean when I say "fundamentalist"? I'm talking extreme-(social and polictical point of views).I think sometimes certain Christians and some sects become fundalmentalist, like fundamentalist Islam. Taking everything so literally.

 

[crumbs2000]

Christianity should NOT get with the modern times. The world is getting more and more evil. The casual use of sex is a prime example.

Such a negative view of the world. Let's embrace what we do have and what better solutions there are instead of focusing on the bad. Sex shouldn't be seen as an evil, it's the hearts and minds of those people that make sex sleazy.