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Gabriel Anton

Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18
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Blessings, Gabriel Anton
I never said, nor has anyone else said, that the 33 Day Consecration was necessary for salvation and union with Christ. Many people have become saints without consecrating themselves to Jesus through Mary, it's just that the consecration makes becoming a saint much quicker and easier. Marian Consecration has been around for a long time, it's earliest records dating back to the Medieval Period, but it's current and perfected form Saint Louis De Montfort's True Devotion to Mary (You can get the book here: True Devotion to Mary: With Preparation for Total Consecration: Catholic Way Publishing, Saint Louis De Montfort, Reverend Frederick William Faber: 9781783790005: Amazon.com: Books) There's also a simplified version by Fr. Michael E. Gaitley MIC for people who are in a hurry and need to get straight to the to the meditations (See here 33 Days to Morning Glory: A Do-It-Yourself Retreat In Preparation for Marian Consecration: Michael E. Gaitley: 9781596142442: Amazon.com: Books).

The 33 Day Consecration period is separated into 4 parts:
First, a 12 day initial phase in which one purges oneself of the spirit of the world.
Second, one week of of self-knowledge, where oneself of one's interior sins and vices.
Then, the second week one obtains knowledge of and deep devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
And in the Final Week one obtains knowledge of and deep devotion to Our Lord Jesus Christ.
On the Day, following the 33 Day Period, which should fall on a Marian Feast day, one goes to Mass, goes to Confession and then seals the consecration, he or she also expected to do at least good work that they (I plan on inviting some of my friends who are non-believers for a feast and see if I can get some evangelization done)

The real advantage of Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary, unfortunately can through the Catholic understanding of Faith and Good Works, although, if one of your objections to the Catholic teaching on Good Works is that Good Works can only be done through selfish motivations, this might interest you.
The advantages of Total Consecration to Mary, are summed up by the following parable Saint Louis De Montfort gave:
There once was a peasant who wanted to honour his king, and obtain his favour. However the only thing he had to give to his king was a piece fruit, which wasn't very impressive, but walking down the road the peasant comes across the queen and her entourage, thus peasant decides to give the fruit to her, along with his petition. The Queen returns to the palace, polishes up the fruit, puts it on a gold platter and presents it to the king along with the peasant's petition, and thus the king is much more impressed by the fruit and more willing to grant the peasant his favour, because the of the fruit being presented, polished and on a golden platter in the hands of the queen.
When we consecrate ourselves to Mary, we give her all our good works, and she in turn, cleanses them of all our selfishness. Now this is not like the Calvin and Luther view of us getting to to Heaven by hiding Jesus' back so that the Father only sees Jesus, God will still tolerate our Good Works even if they are stained by our selfishness (like I said a lot of people became saints without this consecration) it's just that having our good works cleansed and presented to God through His Beloved Mary pleases Him even more. And we're not sneaking into Heaven behind Mary's back, in fact it's just the opposite, God loves Our Lady so much that He can't help but be pleased with those who seek to honour and serve His Beloved.

Now I can't convince you or any other Protestant on the benefit Total Consecration to Mary, that would like trying to convince an Atheist of the benefit of the Cross when he doesn't even believe that Jesus is God, because he doesn't believe in God. That's not the topic of this thread, the topic of this thread and what I hope to convince you and others of, is the Mariology of the Visitation, is Mary the Living Ark of the New and Eternal Covenant, I have presented my case for it. What is your case against it?

Peace be with you.

I'm with the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God.

This passage reveals the Blessed Virgin Mary as the Living Ark of the New and Eternal Covenant, as I will now show with the following Biblical passages.

If you believe the Blessed Virgin Mary to be the Living Ark of the New and Eternal Covenant, then to Live, you must enter the Ark or you Die. You know this or you don't know this?

Genesis 7 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 7
1 Then the Lord said to Noah: Go into the ark, you and all your household, for you alone in this generation have I found to be righteous before me.
17 The flood continued upon the earth for forty days. As the waters increased, they lifted the ark, so that it rose above the earth. 18 The waters swelled and increased greatly on the earth, but the ark floated on the surface of the waters. 19 Higher and higher on the earth the waters swelled, until all the highest mountains under the heavens were submerged. 20 The waters swelled fifteen cubits higher than the submerged mountains. 21 All creatures that moved on earth perished: birds, tame animals, wild animals, and all that teemed on the earth, as well as all humankind. 22 Everything on dry land with the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 The Lordwiped out every being on earth: human beings and animals, the crawling things and the birds of the air; all were wiped out from the earth. Only Noah and those with him in the ark were left.

That's why I suggested this:

"33 Days of Consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary Every Year is Necessary in order to be United to Jesus Christ for your Salvation."

God bless you.
 
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stuart lawrence

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On April 28th, I'll be beginning my 33 Day Total Consecration to Jesus living through Mary, which will conclude on May 31st, the Feast of the Visitation!

In preparation for this consecration, I thought I would challenge Protestants by making a case for the Mariology present in the Visitation:

"39 In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and she entered the house of Zechari′ah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” 46 And Mary said,
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;" Luke 1:39-48 RSVCE

This passage reveals the Blessed Virgin Mary as the Living Ark of the New and Eternal Covenant, as I will now show with the following Biblical passages.
In 2 Samuel 6:9 David says in reaction to the Lord striking down Uzzah,
"How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” which is extremely similar to Elizabeth's exclamation "And why is this granted to me, that mother of my Lord should come to me?," make also, two quick side notes; (1) it is the sound of Mary's greeting that causes the pre-born St. John the Baptist to leap in her mother's womb and Saint Elizabeth herself, to be filled with the Holy Spirit and (2) Saint Elizabeth calls Mary "The Mother of my Lord," we'll get to those two points later.
Earlier in the Gospel, Saint Gabriel the Archangel tells Our Lady:

“The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
therefore the child to be born will be called holy,
the Son of God." Luke 1:35 RSVCE

In the Old Testament, The Old Ark would often have the Shekhinah glory cloud hovering above and overshadowing it, the Old Ark contained the Ten Commandments; the Manna bread, come down from Heaven; and the budding staff of Aaron signifying him and his descendants as the rightful heirs to the High Priesthood. The New Living Ark, Mary contains in her womb, the Word of God Himself, the Logos; the Living Bread Himself, come down from Heaven; and the High Priest Himself.
In 2 Samuel 6:11 the Old Ark remains in Obed-Edom's house for 3 months and all his household is blessed by God, in Luke 1:56 we read that Mary stayed with St. Elizabeth's household 3 months and no one can deny that the Holy Spirit filling Saint Elizabeth and St. John the Baptist leaping in her womb is a blessing. Just as quick side note, on a historical level, the name Obed-Edom means "slave of Edom" (it is my hope that through this consecration I may no longer be a slave of Edom but of Mary and through her, the One Lord Jesus Christ Son of God) at the time of the Visitation the priesthood was working for Herod the EDOMITE building his new temple, Elizabeth was a member of the Priestly family thus it could be said the Elizabeth was an Obed-Edom, a slave of Edom.
Finally, I'll end here because this thing is already quite long, Mary's Magnificat begins with words that are similar to the words of David in 2 Samuel 6:21-22:

“It was before the Lord, who chose me above your father, and above all his house, to appoint me as prince over Israel, the people of the Lord—and I will make merry before the Lord. 22 I will make myself yet more contemptible than this, and I will be abased in your eyes; but by the maids of whom you have spoken, by them I shall be held in honor.”

David says that he was chosen by God, despite his lowliness, that he will make merry before God, and that he will be held in high regard by the maids.
In the Magnificat Mary says her soul magnifies the Lord, that the Lord has looked on her lowliness, for indeed even though she is the greatest of all God's creatures, she has done nothing to earn it, it is all a gift from God. And that all generations will call her Blessed, which begs the question why don't Protestants call her Blessed, why are you frustrating the word of the Lord O Protestants?
That's all I can say for now, though there as much more to be gleaned from this glorious event, it even gets into some of the Four Dogmas of the Blessed Virgin Mary, for example: remember how Saint Elizabeth calls Mary "the Mother of my Lord" at first glance, it may seem like a weak argument for calling Mary, the Mother of God. But let's think about this, how can St. Elizabeth call Jesus Lord? Why is Jesus called Lord? Because Jesus is the Messiah and King of Israel? But what right does Jesus have to the Messiahship and Kingship of Israel? Yes he's a descendant of David, but so are St. Joseph and many others at his time. Clearly it is because Jesus is the Son of God Himself that he can rightfully be called the Messiah and Lord, not to mention, in that 2 Samuel passage, when David said "Lord" he clearly meant "God." I'd like to get into this more but I'm running out of time and my opening post is already quite long, instead I'll address a few objections that Protestants might have to Mary as the Living Ark:

Objection: Scriptures tell us that man’s heart is the new temple of God. This is how He chose to dwell with us. Mary is not that temple, but a vessel that brought forth the sacrifice. You can’t say Mary is the new Ark of the covenant. Every Christian holds the Ark of the Covenant within his heart as the scriptures say. The function of the Ark became obsolete when God made His dwelling within.

I reply: Yes, a Christian that is baptized and has repented of all his/her mortal sins, has the Holy Spirit dwelling in him/her. What's more, a Catholic has the Son of God dwelling in him/her every time he or she goes to Holy Communion, while in a state of grace (like I did this morning). However, surely there must be a clear difference between a Christian being a temple of God, and Jesus Christ Himself stating He is the Temple of God in John 2:19-21! the obvious difference being Jesus Christ is God himself while a Christian isn't, but what about Mary? Well Mary like Catholics has both the Holy Spirit and God the Son dwelling in her, but while Catholics only receive a piece of Christ's flesh, Mary has the entire physical body of Christ developing in her womb and being dependent on her, this is the will of God. Also the recent scientific discovery of fetal microchimerism, shows that the blood of Jesus with the same DNA remains in His Mother Mary throughout her life. This why at Mary's apparition of Akita, Japan, when the scientist did DNA testing of her sweat, blood, and tears one of the blood types they found was AB, which is Jesus' blood type as found in the shroud of Turin and in every authentic bleeding host miracle.

Objection: Nowhere is Mary revealed as ark of the New Covenant. Since it is revealed that Jesus is not Himself the New Covenant but the "Mediator" of it, and that not through His birth but His sacrificial, substitutionary death.

I reply: In Revelations 11:19 the Ark of the Covenant is seen in Heaven and then in the very next chapter we see Our Lady, I know that Protestants will disagree with this, but I'm confident I can make a case for this. In regards to Jesus being the "Mediator" of the New Covenant and not the New Covenant itself, I reply that Jesus said that He was The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and what is the new Covenant if not The Way, The Truth, and The Life?

Objection: The Comparison is weak, The Ark of Covenant has only the Shekhinah Glory Cloud hovering over it while Mary has the Holy Spirit overshadowing her and the Power of the Most High coming upon her. The comparison Between Luke and 2 Samuel jumps between Elizabeth as David and Elizabeth as Obed-Edom.

I reply: The foreshadowing of Jesus' Most Holy Sacrifice on the Cross jumps around even more form the Passover Lamp, to the Bronze Serpent of Moses to Isaac on Mount Moriah, to the Ram that replaced Isaac, to name a few. History doesn't repeat itself, it only rhymes, and thus we should expect the New Testament fulfillment of what is in the Old to be not only different but greater for as 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 states:

"7 Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendor that the Israelites could not look at Moses’ face because of its brightness, fading as this was, 8 will not the dispensation of the Spirit be attended with greater splendor? 9 For if there was splendor in the dispensation of condemnation, the dispensation of righteousness must far exceed it in splendor. 10 Indeed, in this case, what once had splendor has come to have no splendor at all, because of the splendor that surpasses it. 11 For if what faded away came with splendor, what is permanent must have much more splendor."

Thus when the Lord strikes down Uzzah for touching the Old Ark, in a procession of song, lyres, harps and tambourines, David cries out, "[h]ow can the ark of the Lord come to me?” in the presence of the old, inanimate, man-made Ark of the dispensation of death and condemnation. By contrast, when, at the sound of Mary's voice, the pre-born Saint John the Baptist leaps in the womb of Saint Elizabeth, and she is filled with the Holy Spirit and she cries out, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" And all this is in the presence of the new, living, God-sown, Ark of the dispensation of the Spirit and righteousness!

So that is my case, like I said I have more, but for now this will suffice and I am more than happy to speak the truth in love with any Protestant who wants to contend.

Warning: At the risk of causing Protestants to do the contrary, I would like to warn them everyone the Lord loves Mary more than we can comprehend at least in this life and that speaking ill against her is deeply offensive to Him! At the end of every I intend to post the prayer of reparation for blasphemy and maybe offer up a few extra prayers in addition, I'd like to call on all my brother and sister Catholics to do the same and that whenever they stumble across one of these posts to take a moment and say the prayer before moving on.

For the Greater Glory of God and the salvation of souls!
AVE MARIA!!!
How can you challenge protestants with the above if the post is made in the catholic subforum. They wouldn't be allowed to respond to the challenge.
So, the challenge means nothing does it

But thank you for explaining, catholics believe:

The blessed virgin Mary is the living ark of the new and eternal covenant.


Most enlightening!
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Today is Divine Mercy Sunday, I plan on taking my family out to lunch, as way of evangelizing them, and then praying and meditating a bit, before responding to everything here, which is a shame because looks like a lot has happened since I was gone. I'll pray the Litany of Trust in Divine Mercy for everyone here

In the Name of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit
Amen

Divine Mercy, gushing forth from the bosom of the Father,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, greatest attribute of God,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, incomprehensible mystery,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, fountain gushing forth from the mystery of the Most Blessed Trinity,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, unfathomed by any intellect, human or angelic,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, from which wells forth all life and happiness,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, better than the heavens,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, source of miracles and wonders,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, encompassing the whole universe,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, descending to earth in the Person of the Incarnate Word,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, which flowed out from the open wound of the Heart of Jesus,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, enclosed in the Heart of Jesus for us, and especially for sinners,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, unfathomed in the institution of the Sacred Host,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in the founding of Holy Church,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in the Sacrament of Holy Baptism,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in our justification through Jesus Christ,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, accompanying us through our whole life,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, embracing us especially at the hour of death,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, endowing us with immortal life,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, accompanying us every moment of our life,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, shielding us from the fire of hell,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in the conversion of hardened sinners,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, astonishment for Angels, incomprehensible to Saints,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, unfathomed in all the mysteries of God,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, lifting us out of every misery,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, source of our happiness and joy,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in calling us forth from nothingness to existence,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, embracing all the works of His hands,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, crown of all of God's handiwork,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in which we are all immersed,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, sweet relief for anguished hearts,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, only hope of despairing souls,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, repose of hearts, peace amidst fear,
i Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, delight and ecstasy of holy souls,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, inspiring hope against all hope,
I Trust in You.

In the Name of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit
Amen.

Have a good and holy Divine Mercy Sunday, everyone!
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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How can you challenge protestants with the above if the post is made in the catholic subforum. They wouldn't be allowed to respond to the challenge.
So, the challenge means nothing does it

But thank you for explaining, catholics believe:

The blessed virgin Mary is the living ark of the new and eternal covenant.


Most enlightening!

Wait, I thought this was a forum for debating, as the name implies, denomination-specific Theology. Is this why Protestants are attacking the OBOB forum? I saw threads with the exact titles when I started up this challenge, I actually plan on leading some of them here.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Peace be with you.

I'm with the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God.



If you believe the Blessed Virgin Mary to be the Living Ark of the New and Eternal Covenant, then to Live, you must enter the Ark or you Die. You know this or you don't know this?

Genesis 7 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
Chapter 7
1 Then the Lord said to Noah: Go into the ark, you and all your household, for you alone in this generation have I found to be righteous before me.
17 The flood continued upon the earth for forty days. As the waters increased, they lifted the ark, so that it rose above the earth. 18 The waters swelled and increased greatly on the earth, but the ark floated on the surface of the waters. 19 Higher and higher on the earth the waters swelled, until all the highest mountains under the heavens were submerged. 20 The waters swelled fifteen cubits higher than the submerged mountains. 21 All creatures that moved on earth perished: birds, tame animals, wild animals, and all that teemed on the earth, as well as all humankind. 22 Everything on dry land with the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 The Lordwiped out every being on earth: human beings and animals, the crawling things and the birds of the air; all were wiped out from the earth. Only Noah and those with him in the ark were left.

That's why I suggested this:



God bless you.
Yes, is the Ark of Noah as well, being The Refuge of Sinners.
I don't know exactly, how important Marian devotion is for Salvation, but what I've read, heard and watched so far I know that is extremely important for one's spiritual life, but not necessary. One can, in theory be saved without Mary, but it is like next to impossible, you would have to be a complete moron not honour the Blessed Mother. I could wrong about this though.
If however your suggesting I say that for rhetorical reasons, I'm not fan of meddling with the truth, even if it's not even venial sinful. I hate relativism and non-truth philosophies with a fierce hatred, and one the arguments for these philosophies is that, "people are never act as though there were an absolute truth, they always behave differently in different social situations," so I try to be as honest as I can, though I still have a long way to go spiritually.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Interesting, I was unaware of what this practice involved.

I would see the tendency to want to become super-holy as potentially a sign of spiritual pride. In the name of self-styled holiness, a great deal of mischief can be done. If the Christian life becomes too much about "my" efforts for "my" holiness, something important about the human condition is missed.
Nay, a genuine desire for holiness is completely devoid of pride, it's all about God, and not you, in fact, when a person reaches a certain degree of holiness, God strips him or her of every and all pleasures so that, they do good purely for the sake of God, it's called The Dark Night of the Soul. You may have heard of St. Teresa of Calcutta having thoughts of extreme doubt, during a period of her life, well that was her Dark Night of the Soul.
I honestly believe that the biggest problem in the world today, is that too few people want to be saints, saints are a key part of the answer (The whole, being God Himself) to all the problems in the world today.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Wait, I thought this was a forum for debating, as the name implies, denomination-specific Theology. Is this why Protestants are attacking the OBOB forum? I saw threads with the exact titles when I started up this challenge, I actually plan on leading some of them here.
I gave criticised catholic doctrine on catholic subforum and been told I am not allowed to do that, it breaks the rules of cf
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Sometimes I wonder if Mary even ever finds out that you guys do this kind of stuff in her name. I can't imagine she'd be too happy about it.
My guess is that Mary's thought about that comment, and particularly how at has addressed NONE of my arguments for Mary being the living Ark of the New Covenant, are somewhat akin to a more merciful, pitiful version of 2 Kings 19:21. But that's just a guess, I'm more interested in what God thinks, The Holy Spirit has let me know by providing me with the material I presented at the beginning of this thread and much more, The Son provides all of us with John 19:27.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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No, it's my marriage. My husband does not feel as I do theologically, and wants us to attend church together.
Would you like me to pray for your husband's conversion?
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Okay I'm retiring for tonight, some Protestants are raiding the OBOB Catholic forum so I'm going to lead them to this thread, and we'll see if things start to heat up. I'll conclude Divine Mercy Sunday with the Litany to Divine Mercy:

In the Name of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit
Amen

Divine Mercy, gushing forth from the bosom of the Father,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, greatest attribute of God,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, incomprehensible mystery,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, fountain gushing forth from the mystery of the Most Blessed Trinity,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, unfathomed by any intellect, human or angelic,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, from which wells forth all life and happiness,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, better than the heavens,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, source of miracles and wonders,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, encompassing the whole universe,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, descending to earth in the Person of the Incarnate Word,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, which flowed out from the open wound of the Heart of Jesus,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, enclosed in the Heart of Jesus for us, and especially for sinners,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, unfathomed in the institution of the Sacred Host,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in the founding of Holy Church,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in the Sacrament of Holy Baptism,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in our justification through Jesus Christ,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, accompanying us through our whole life,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, embracing us especially at the hour of death,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, endowing us with immortal life,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, accompanying us every moment of our life,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, shielding us from the fire of hell,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in the conversion of hardened sinners,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, astonishment for Angels, incomprehensible to Saints,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, unfathomed in all the mysteries of God,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, lifting us out of every misery,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, source of our happiness and joy,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in calling us forth from nothingness to existence,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, embracing all the works of His hands,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, crown of all of God's handiwork,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, in which we are all immersed,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, sweet relief for anguished hearts,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, only hope of despairing souls,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, repose of hearts, peace amidst fear,
i Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, delight and ecstasy of holy souls,
I Trust in You.
Divine Mercy, inspiring hope against all hope,
I Trust in You.

Our Lady of Mercy,
Pray for us.

In the Name of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit
Amen.
 
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SeventyOne

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My guess is that Mary's thought about that comment, and particularly how at has addressed NONE of my arguments for Mary being the living Ark of the New Covenant, are somewhat akin to a more merciful, pitiful version of 2 Kings 19:21. But that's just a guess, I'm more interested in what God thinks, The Holy Spirit has let me know by providing me with the material I presented at the beginning of this thread and much more, The Son provides all of us with John 19:27.

I didn't address any of your points in the OP because after reading it the second and third times, it still sounded incoherent. It was like being asked to refute the statement, "salt flies wetter than physics". It was at that point where I thought, "Poor Mary, I really hope she doesn't have to hear about this stuff in Heaven" because it's probably ruining her experience. Hense, my response.
 
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ripple the car

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I didn't address any of your points in the OP because after reading it the second and third times, it still sounded incoherent. It was like being asked to refute the statement, "salt flies wetter than physics".

Well, technically, one could say that while salt does not fly on its own, it can at least be moistened and flung, or transported wet via airplane, and is there for able to fly wetter than physics, as physics is an academic and scientific field of study and not a tangible or wettable object that can be transported via air.

Bazinga. And Salve, Regina.
 
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stuart lawrence

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I didn't address any of your points in the OP because after reading it the second and third times, it still sounded incoherent. It was like being asked to refute the statement, "salt flies wetter than physics". It was at that point where I thought, "Poor Mary, I really hope she doesn't have to hear about this stuff in Heaven" because it's probably ruining her experience. Hense, my response.
.
 
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MrMoe

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Hello, you posted a lot of stuff so I will just try to answer a few.

And that all generations will call her Blessed, which begs the question why don't Protestants call her Blessed, why are you frustrating the word of the Lord O Protestants?

We do call her blessed. Catholics seem to have this thing that because protestants don't gush about Mary or venerate her like they do, it means that we somehow hate her. We don't.


Objection: Scriptures tell us that man’s heart is the new temple of God. This is how He chose to dwell with us. Mary is not that temple, but a vessel that brought forth the sacrifice. You can’t say Mary is the new Ark of the covenant. Every Christian holds the Ark of the Covenant within his heart as the scriptures say. The function of the Ark became obsolete when God made His dwelling within.

I reply: Yes, a Christian that is baptized and has repented of all his/her mortal sins, has the Holy Spirit dwelling in him/her. What's more, a Catholic has the Son of God dwelling in him/her every time he or she goes to Holy Communion, while in a state of grace (like I did this morning). However, surely there must be a clear difference between a Christian being a temple of God, and Jesus Christ Himself stating He is the Temple of God in John 2:19-21! the obvious difference being Jesus Christ is God himself while a Christian isn't, but what about Mary? Well Mary like Catholics has both the Holy Spirit and God the Son dwelling in her, but while Catholics only receive a piece of Christ's flesh, Mary has the entire physical body of Christ developing in her womb and being dependent on her, this is the will of God.

I noticed you used 'has' present tense when talking about Mary. Mary had God the Son physically dwelling in her. Mary is not still physically carrying Jesus. This doesn't really refute the claim that Scripture tell us that man’s heart is the new temple of God.

Also the recent scientific discovery of fetal microchimerism, shows that the blood of Jesus with the same DNA remains in His Mother Mary throughout her life. This why at Mary's apparition of Akita, Japan, when the scientist did DNA testing of her sweat, blood, and tears one of the blood types they found was AB, which is Jesus' blood type as found in the shroud of Turin and in every authentic bleeding host miracle.

One of the blood types? I'm guessing that means more than one blood type was found. So that means either Mary had more than one blood type or it could be a hoax.


Objection: Nowhere is Mary revealed as ark of the New Covenant. Since it is revealed that Jesus is not Himself the New Covenant but the "Mediator" of it, and that not through His birth but His sacrificial, substitutionary death.

I reply: In Revelations 11:19 the Ark of the Covenant is seen in Heaven and then in the very next chapter we see Our Lady, I know that Protestants will disagree with this, but I'm confident I can make a case for this.

Yeah I disagree with you. The connection is pretty weak, especially since the woman in Revelation 12 is most likely the nation of Isreal and not Mary.


In regards to Jesus being the "Mediator" of the New Covenant and not the New Covenant itself, I reply that Jesus said that He was The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and what is the new Covenant if not The Way, The Truth, and The Life?

No, a covenant is basically a contract or agreement. A contract/agreement can point to The Truth but it is not The Truth itself, and a contract/agreement cannot itself give life.

Objection: The Comparison is weak, The Ark of Covenant has only the Shekhinah Glory Cloud hovering over it while Mary has the Holy Spirit overshadowing her and the Power of the Most High coming upon her. The comparison Between Luke and 2 Samuel jumps between Elizabeth as David and Elizabeth as Obed-Edom.

I reply: The foreshadowing of Jesus' Most Holy Sacrifice on the Cross jumps around even more form the Passover Lamp, to the Bronze Serpent of Moses to Isaac on Mount Moriah, to the Ram that replaced Isaac, to name a few.

Those are seperate events and they are consistent, they do not jump from person to person within the same story.
For example Issac consistently stays the Christ figure, but you switch Mary from a non human object to a man and Elizabeth to another man all within the same story.

This is a quote from a book called Who is my Mother:

“We are told that Mary is paralleled with David (both ‘arise’ and ‘set out’), while other times Mary is paralleled with the Ark. Moreover, the statement of David in 2 Sam 6:9, ‘How can the ark of the LORD come to me?,’ changes the parallelism from Mary/David to David/Elizabeth . . . The fluctuation of the parallelism from Mary/Ark to Mary/David to David/Elizabeth to Elizabeth/Obed-Edom seems too capricious to be valid, and is for that reason alone rightly rejected by most scholars” (Eric Svendsen, Who is my Mother? The Role of and Status of the Mother of Jesus in the New Testament and Roman Catholicism, [Calvary Press, 2001], p. 168).
 
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Albion

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I think that's right. Although I've read over the OP several times, I can't find an actual challenge in it, unless we count daring anyone with another POV to go ahead and post their own lecture in the manner of the OP. I guess I expected something more specific.
 
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