A man achieved Sinless Perfection!

[Grafted In]

I'm on the opposing side of that, but we won't hash it out here, especially since it's been done to death already.

That's for sure.

 

[Freedom Now]

Christendom agrees and holds it to be true that Christ was and is sinless.
He came in the form of a man, and lived a sinless life.

However, as for the rest of us, can we ever become sinless too?

By that I mean, from a certain point in life, is it possible to abstain from sin for a decent amount of time. Let's say, a month, but we can say any long period of time for the sake of discussion.

(Not even "small" sins. Some mention, gossip, jealously over a car, etc.)

So, do you think it's possible, and if so, how can one become sinless for a month or more?

If you don't think it's possible, please explain why.

Edit:
Perhaps I should add this in a signature, but I'll just say,
be warned, I like to pick apart claims, and find out exactly what a person is saying. I also like to challenge claims, so if I challenge one of your claims, don't be too surprised.

Is it possible for a follower of Christ to live a sinless live on earth?

I think if I read your post correctly, this is what your asking.


Is it possible? Definitely


If I believe it were not possible, I would have to declare that Christ crucification, death, resurrection

and ascension was not enough to deal with sin and death.

If this were the case, I might as well throw out the scriptures and abandon the faith.


It is plainly stated that we are crucified with Him, dead and buried with Him....

And Paul declares if we have died, we are freed from sin.

Peter declared,... whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,.....

Jesus declared,...he whom the Son makes free is free indeed...


Further John declares, he who is born of God cannot sin....


The question is are we walking in the fulness of these truth yet?

First of all, this walk is by Faith in His Spirit....

If you don't believe it is possible to live a sinless life, then most likely it is not going to happen.


Jesus plainly stated, he who loves Me, keeps My commandments , very straight forward, isn't it?


But some will say, ..keeping the commandments is a work!!!!!

Let me ask you something simple....

If you don't steal, is that a work?

If you do steal, is that a work? Go to your neighbor, then steal something, then hide it,
sounds like work to me.

Work=do something
Commandments= do not

Now would keeping the commandments be a work, or you abstain from doing something?


How is a sinless life possible?

By having the old man, sinful nature, flesh crucified with Christ, until it is put to death, then have buried,

Then we are raised to newness of life, and is living in this newness of life faith, that we can live

sinless, because the sinful old man is done with.

In this new life with every temptation there will be a way of escape.

Every thought that comes is taken captive unto the obedience of Christ.


How do we come to this death of the old man?

Surrender it completely, everything, everything you have, you own, your dreams, your desires,

Surrender the very right to live your own life, in other words surrender your free will, and let it die.


That from point forward your life does no longer belong to you, but Christ your Lord is in complete

control, then He will fill you with His life and lead and guide in all things.

Your walk will be a life of complete obedience.

When you walk in this life, there is no need to sin anymore, because the old self man with all
its lusts and desires is gone and burried.

Most sin , if not all is about feeding the Self, what I want, etc...

If your only desire is to love your Lord with your whole heart, you will be obedient, you
don't even have to try, you just will do His will



1 Peter 4
Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same thought,

for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,

so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer by human passions,

but BY THE WILL OF GOD.


As Christ suffered .................crucified, dead, and buried. .
our suffering...............crucified, dead, buried with Him

so for the rest of the time we live no longer by human passions (flesh) but
BY the will of God........Christ in us.

As Paul said..... I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live, but Christ Who lives in me.


Or as Jesus says,...he loses his life , will have life..


But as long as we want to live OUR life by our will (freewill), we will sin.

Until you completely surrender your will to run your life, Jesus is not your Lord yet.

Jesus said, whoever does not renounce All that he has, cannot be My disciple, that

includes your freewill.


Oh Father, impregnate our souls with these Truth, so that we can be made free, and live

real lives for your good pleasure.


Thank you Father for your abundant mercy and grace.


May God bless you.

 

[Grafted In]

Near, why do you suppose Christ died on the cross for us? So we can keep every single law?
Why is it that you must have a set of laws? You are free in Christ. You have taken on His rightiousness. The division between yourself and God has been done away with.
Jesus Christ walked the walk and talked the talk so that we don't have to.
Do you honestly believe He went through all that so you can sometimes, in a way, sort of manage to obey Torah for short periods of time. Then you wind up and take another stab at perfection, only to disappoint yourself all over again. Is that why Jesus Christ suffered the most awful death and shame .. .so you can perhaps rack up some uptime having kept all that Torah requires.
Can you just once see that your efforts are all a total waste of time, and with the fields ripe for harvest?
What did a very young Jesus say to His parents when they had finally found Him after a long trip back to The Temple? They were upset with Him.

48And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

What is our heavenly Fathers' business? Drawing sinners to His Son, Jesus Christ.

Whether ir not you may or may not live a sinless life is dead works.
If we love Jesus and have His indwelling Holy Ghost we have fulfilled the law. He has called us to do good works, not dead works.

 

[Near]

Near, why do you suppose Christ died on the cross for us? So we can keep every single law?
Why is it that you must have a set of laws? You are free in Christ. You have taken on His rightiousness. The division between yourself and God has been done away with.
Jesus Christ walked the walk and talked the talk so that we don't have to.
Do you honestly believe He went through all that so you can sometimes, in a way, sort of manage to obey Torah for short periods of time. Then you wind up and take another stab at perfection, only to disappoint yourself all over again. Is that why Jesus Christ suffered the most awful death and shame .. .so you can perhaps rack up some uptime having kept all that Torah requires.
Can you just once see that your efforts are all a total waste of time, and with the fields ripe for harvest?
What did a very young Jesus say to His parents when they had finally found Him after a long trip back to The Temple? They were upset with Him.

48And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

What is our heavenly Fathers' business? Drawing sinners to His Son, Jesus Christ.

Whether ir not you may or may not live a sinless life is dead works.
If we love Jesus and have His indwelling Holy Ghost we have fulfilled the law. He has called us to do good works, not dead works.

Irrelevant Grafted In, mostly* irrelevant. If you want to questions me personally, l'll start a A.M.A: Near edition.

 

[Grafted In]

Irelevant?!!!

 

[Near]

Irelevant?!!!

For the most part.

In response to some of what you wrote, I'll briefly mention:

I'm not a reformed christian. I don't subscribe to penal substitution, vicarious atonement, total depravity, nor the Billy Graham popularized notion of "implanted" (wrongly called imputed) righteousness. It seems like you do, but i don't. I'm not a messianic jew, so I don't keep Torah, nor desire to. Additionally, dead works, are sin, literal sin. Dead works are not "trying to be holy". Abstaining from sin, is not a waste of time.

 

[Grafted In]

For the most part.

In response to some of what you wrote, I'll briefly mention:

I'm not a reformed christian. I don't subscribe to penal substitution, vicarious atonement, total depravity, nor the Billy Graham popularized notion of "implanted" (wrongly called imputed) righteousness. It seems like you do, but i don't. I'm not a messianic jew, so I don't keep Torah, nor desire to. Additionally, dead works, are sin, literal sin. Dead works are not "trying to be holy". Abstaining from sin, is not a waste of time.

Ok. I get it now. You've moved on to yet another mindset.

 

[Geralt]

not possible to be sinless. we are after all sons of fallen adam- we inherit his fallen nature.
christ was NOT fallen, in fact described as a 'new' adam (1Cor15:45). so unlike Christ, we are NOT new adams.

but assuming (the impossible) that you yourself achieve sinless perfection in this life, then that is the moment you no longer need faith nor christ. and thus the irony.

Christendom agrees and holds it to be true that Christ was and is sinless.
He came in the form of a man, and lived a sinless life.

However, as for the rest of us, can we ever become sinless too?

By that I mean, from a certain point in life, is it possible to abstain from sin for a decent amount of time. Let's say, a month, but we can say any long period of time for the sake of discussion.

(Not even "small" sins. Some mention, gossip, jealously over a car, etc.)

So, do you think it's possible, and if so, how can one become sinless for a month or more?

If you don't think it's possible, please explain why.

Edit:
Perhaps I should add this in a signature, but I'll just say,
be warned, I like to pick apart claims, and find out exactly what a person is saying. I also like to challenge claims, so if I challenge one of your claims, don't be too surprised.

 

[Near]

not possible to be sinless. we are after all sons of fallen adam- we inherit his fallen nature.
christ was NOT fallen, in fact described as a 'new' adam (1Cor15:45). so unlike Christ, we are NOT new adams.

but assuming (the impossible) that you yourself achieve sinless perfection in this life, then that is the moment you no longer need faith nor christ. and thus the irony.

What is a fallen nature?

Anyways, even if we had such a fallen nature, we are a new creation in Christ.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

As for no longer needing Christ, it seems that you think Christ's only purpose would be for cleansing one of sin. That is incorrect. In order to be righteous, one must follow God consistently, and have faith in Christ. For without faith, and Christ, one cannot be regarded as righteous by God.

Edit: so, to tie this in with sinlessness, being righteous, as partly evident in behavior, is the same thing. You can't be righteous if you're committing an act of murder, and the same goes for all the sins. So, if you abstain from each of the sins, and you have faith in Christ, sinlessness is within righteousness.

 

[Geralt]

im not sure what your issue is now, i thought your thread topic was about 'achieving sinlessness', and now you are taking about 'how to be righteous'. please how do you relate both these thoughts, i would be interested to know.

What is a fallen nature?

Anyways, even if we had such a fallen nature, we are a new creation in Christ.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

As for no longer needing Christ, it seems that you think Christ's only purpose would be for cleansing one of sin. That is incorrect. In order to be righteous, one must follow God consistently, and have faith in Christ. For without faith, and Christ, one cannot be regarded as righteous by God.

 

[Near]

im not sure what your issue is now, i thought your thread topic was about 'achieving sinlessness', and now you are taking about 'how to be righteous'. please how do you relate both these thoughts, i would be interested to know.

simple... in order to do one, you have to do the other consistently

 

[Geralt]

alright, so here is the question now

- at what point can you possibly conclude you have achieved 'sinless perfection' ? is it a final state or conditional (variable) state ?

- OR are you suggesting that your view of 'sinless perfection' is a constant state of running the race, rather than reaching a finish line ? constantly obeying the commands and 'have faith' in christ.

im assuming that in running the race of sinless perfection, there is no room for error or sin or repentance. otherwise it defeats the word 'sinless' and your whole concept collapses.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

simple... in order to do one, you have to do the other consistently

 

[Near]

alright, so here is the question now

- at what point can you possibly conclude you have achieved 'sinless perfection' ? is it a final state or conditional (variable) state ?

- OR are you suggesting that your view of 'sinless perfection' is a constant state of running the race, rather than reaching a finish line ? constantly obeying the commands and 'have faith' in christ.

im assuming that in running the race of sinless perfection, there is no room for error or sin or repentance. otherwise it defeats the word 'sinless' and your whole concept collapses.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Since the phrase is made up, all I'm referring to is any state in which a person is fully cleansed from sin, and is not practicing sin. I'm not exclusively talking about life-long sinless perfection. I'm rather suggesting it's possible from a certain point in time, to another point in time, to be in a state of non-sinning, as a usual way of being.

It only has to be constant in the sense that it's occurring. For example, a humble 1 day without sin. If a man sins again during his walk, he stops being sinless at the point of sin, but if he repents, and gets back on track, he's on the sinless road once again.

There's no room for error if the goal is sinlessness forever, but if error does occur, it can be repented of, and one can get back on track. I'm not advocating that if a person sins after salvation, that it's over, and they go to hell no matter what.

 

[Freedom Now]

Since the phrase is made up, all I'm referring to is any state in which a person is fully cleansed from sin, and is not practicing sin. I'm not exclusively talking about life-long sinless perfection. I'm rather suggesting it's possible from a certain point in time, to another point in time, to be in a state of non-sinning, as a usual way of being.

It only has to be constant in the sense that it's occurring. For example, a humble 1 day without sin. If a man sins again during his walk, he stops being sinless at the point of sin, but if he repents, and gets back on track, he's on the sinless road once again.

There's no room for error if the goal is sinlessness forever, but if error does occur, it can be repented of, and one can get back on track. I'm not advocating that if a person sins after salvation, that it's over, and they go to hell no matter what.

I like your insight and understanding in this area.

Keep at it.


To me this is the main reason Christ came, so that through Him we might walk right with God,
just as Jesus set an example for us.

Some talk about His righteousness imputed, yes that happens at the initial saving, but
from thereon we are to walk the walk...

....he who says he abides in Him ought to walk in the same way he walked.

What you are speaking of, I started to put in practice in 1991

Let me encourage you, keep looking to the Lord and it is possible to walk without sinning,

and it is God's will for our lives.


May God bless you.