A hypothetical

[Syd the Human]

Okay, I have seen this a couple of times on this site. Theists say that since scientists cannot create life from non-life in a lab, it proves that a god exists (I'm not saying it does, obviously, but that's another thread).

But what if a scientist was able to do so? What if a scientist was able to create life from non-life, what would that mean to a theist?

 

[AV1611VET]

What if a scientists was able to create life from non-life, what would that mean to a theist?

Intelligent design.

 

[davidbilby]

Okay, I have seen this a couple of times on this site. Theists say that since scientists cannot create life from non-life in a lab, it proves that a god exists (I'm not saying it does, obviously, but that's another thread).

But what if a scientist was able to do so? What if a scientists was able to create life from non-life, what would that mean to a theist?

Define "life". It's not as easy as you think.

 

[AV1611VET]

Define "life". It's not as easy as you think.

Life, according to science, is defined as something that can: 1) replicate itself, and 2) adjust to its environment.

 

[Syd the Human]

Define "life". It's not as easy as you think.

"life noun \ˈlīf\
: the ability to grow, change, etc., that separates plants and animals from things like water or rocks

: the period of time when a person is alive

: the experience of being alive
plural lives

Full Definition of LIFE

1
a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body
b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings
c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction
2
a : the sequence of physical and mental experiences that make up the existence of an individual
b : one or more aspects of the process of living <sex life of the frog>"

But, for the sake of this debate, that for each person whatever they think is life is what is correct (not really accurate, but this a hypothetical about a situation not a discussion about the actual details science). And then, when a scientist is able to create life, whatever that means for that person, what would that mean to them.

 

[davidbilby]

In these senses, the creation of "life" by humans would not really be a problem for religion, except if they claim that only their God can do it...do they?

 

[Syd the Human]

In these senses, the creation of "life" by humans would not really be a problem for religion, except if they claim that only their God can do it...do they?

Some do yes, as part of their god of the gaps type argument. I just focused on this one because it peaked my interest.

 

[Strathos]

That reminds me of a joke I heard once (AV will probably love this):

One day a group of scientists told God that they didn't need him anymore since they had figured out how to create life themselves.

God said, "Okay, let's see you do it. Create life from some dirt."

The scientists took a handful of dirt from the ground, but then God said "No, no, no. That's my dirt. Get your own dirt!"

 

[hedrick]

I think the original argument in invalid, the claim that God has to exist because we don't know how life started. This is called "God of the gaps." It makes God the explanation for things we don't understand. It dooms God to an ever-decreasing role. I think we have to locate God in what he did with Israel and Jesus, and his continuing presence with people today.

 

[ChetSinger]

Define "life". It's not as easy as you think.

Life, according to science, is defined as something that can: 1) replicate itself, and 2) adjust to its environment.

The smallest universally-recognized living thing, according to the Guinness Book of World Records, is Nanoarchaeum equitans.

Smallest living organism

The smallest entity universally recognised to be a living organism (not everyone considers the slightly smaller nanobes to be alive) is Nanoarchaeum equitans. This minuscule microbe was only discovered in 2002, in a hydrothermal vent on the seafloor off the coast of Iceland, and its cells are only 400 nanometres across. In addition, its genome is only 490,885 nucleotide bases long, which makes it the smallest non-viral genome ever sequenced.

If a scientist actually assembles that thing in a lab I'll be impressed, and will consider him an extremely intelligent designer.

If I see that thing just coming together without man-made assistance, then I think atheists might have an excuse for believing in abiogenesis.

 

[AV1611VET]

That reminds me of a joke I heard once (AV will probably love this):

One day a group of scientists told God that they didn't need him anymore since they had figured out how to create life themselves.

God said, "Okay, let's see you do it. Create life from some dirt."

The scientists took a handful of dirt from the ground, but then God said "No, no, no. That's my dirt. Get your own dirt!"

 

[lesliedellow]

To me personally, it wouldn't mean a great deal. It is very easy to get blase about technology.

I would be really really impressed the day I saw organic chemicals going in one door, and a newly manufactured horse coming out the other door, but even that wouldn't disuade me from the view that God exists.

 

[durangodawood]

That reminds me of a joke I heard once (AV will probably love this):

One day a group of scientists told God that they didn't need him anymore since they had figured out how to create life themselves.

God said, "Okay, let's see you do it. Create life from some dirt."

The scientists took a handful of dirt from the ground, but then God said "No, no, no. That's my dirt. Get your own dirt!"

God added terms after the challenge was accepted.

Dishonest.

 

[juvenissun]

Okay, I have seen this a couple of times on this site. Theists say that since scientists cannot create life from non-life in a lab, it proves that a god exists (I'm not saying it does, obviously, but that's another thread).

But what if a scientist was able to do so? What if a scientist was able to create life from non-life, what would that mean to a theist?

If A than B,
Not A, so not B.

Lesson 1.1 in Logic.

 

[lesliedellow]

If A than B,
Not A, so not B.

Lesson 1.1 in Logic.

I would think twice about giving any lessons in logic if I were you.

If a dog, then four legs.

Not a dog, so not four legs.

Doesn't work. A cat is not a dog, and it has four legs.

What does work:

If A then B

Not B, so not A.

 

[Strathos]

God added terms after the challenge was accepted.

Dishonest.

The point is that anything human science does is just working within what God already created.

 

[Davian]

"life noun \&#712;l&#299;f\
: the ability to grow, change, etc., that separates plants and animals from things like water or rocks

: the period of time when a person is alive

: the experience of being alive
plural lives

Full Definition of LIFE

1
a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body
b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings
c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction
2
a : the sequence of physical and mental experiences that make up the existence of an individual
b : one or more aspects of the process of living <sex life of the frog>"

But, for the sake of this debate, that for each person whatever they think is life is what is correct (not really accurate, but this a hypothetical about a situation not a discussion about the actual details science). And then, when a scientist is able to create life, whatever that means for that person, what would that mean to them.

Life, according to science, is defined as something that can: 1) replicate itself, and 2) adjust to its environment.

If the dichotomy is "life came from life", where do gods fit into these definitions? Anyone?

 

[durangodawood]

The point is that anything human science does is just working within what God already created.

Yes. I can see the point. But God had to cheat to make it.

Also, if this stipulates that science has learned how to make life out of dirt, lets just stipulate that science has learned how to make dirt out of nothing.

 

[AV1611VET]

If the dichotomy is "life came from life", where do gods fit into these definitions? Anyone?

It started with Lucifer.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It started with Lucifer.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

...