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What God created He can certainly destroy but I am not aware of a single scripture Old or New Testament where God has or will destroy a single soul in hell or anywhere else.* * * Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Given that, "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (First Corinthians 15:26), I have a very simple question:
How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell after Death has been destroyed...?
Since when is God influenced or limited by mankind's fickle feelings and sensibilities?It's a foul slander on God's holy name to suggest he tortures people forever if they reject him. What a petty, nasty and cruel deity that would be. I'd go so far as to say that the doctrine of eternal damnation or annihilation is how satan gets Christians to worship him unknowingly!
Our God is love, and it's the kind that goes through hell and death to retrieve every last lost sheep. Holy judgment that sets us right, not to get even. Mercy that triumphs over judgment, forgives 7 times 70 times, and amazing grace that bows every knee so that we cry out 'Abba Father'!
Glad to hear that the evil one has not made merchandise of you sister.
Hell if it refers to the grave is empty holes, empty can't be literally thrown anywhere. Death is the point in time end of life and can't be thrown anywhere but there is a scriptural answer which does not entail mixing literal with figurative. There is a "death" and "hell" which can be thrown.The dead are first delivered up out of death and hell in Rev 20:13. That happens before death and hell are shown cast into the Lake of fire (which is the second death)
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
So now the dead which are delivered up out of death and hell (which are no more but in the lake of fire) are alive (delivered out of both). So there is no more death and hell in the for ever and ever sense of those, but now there are those (which were dead) delivered out of death and of these it also says
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Just as it says here
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 20:14 isnt the end all there.
[Previous post continued]
Paul used the word “aionios” eleven [11] times. It is translated “eternal/everlasting” 20 times and world 3 times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines “aionios” as eternal.
[11]Romans 5:21In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12]Ephesians 3:21In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
[13]Romans 1:20In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.
[17]1 Timothy 6:16In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]
[18]Galatians 6:8In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]
[19]Romans 2:7In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.
[21]Romans 5:21In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
[22]Ephesians 3:21In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.In this verse “aion” is parallel with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
[25]1 Peter 5:10In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
[26]Revelation 14:11In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
= = = = = = =
Footnotes ου μη/ou mé
●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
You misunderstand what being 'dead' means. Dead is a special word given to living things that have ceased to live, to convey they were once alive but now they are not.In that case, Death has NOT been destroyed, but Paul writes that it will be.
There is twice dead also
Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
The reason they all say it cannot at all be forever, even though the Bible says it is, etc, is because they do not truly know or understand what it truly is, etc, or why people truly go there, etc...Halo there,
not very long time ago we had a discussion in our chalcedonian orthodox forum with a catholic and our orthodox priest if there is a for ever hell. Well the catholic could not name any text passeges or so but he had good reason to say hell can never be for ever. I "miss the times" so to say, do not know how to say it otherwise, when people had neither bible nor church and had themselves direct contact to God. They were better in that times. How can you think God will punish forever? This is impossible. It is so that God leads the church to say such things because we people need the anxiety to be saved! This is nothinig more than church politics. There will never be a for ever hell but a very long hell. This is absolutely enough to be afraid.enough to be saved.
God will never make someone suffer without reason and never for ever. I know this because I wanted to jump from 14th floor more than 10 years ago and God started talking to me. Therefore I also know about the frequency and possibility of reincaranation, ment that a soul can be born again(in another body on earth)! This does not change that Jesus came to earth. I wish all a good experience this year with Pascha/Easter. I would like to know your sincere opinions. Leave politics aside. Do you really think God will "kill" you for ever by never ever again delivering you from hell? You should always think the best of God, you know and use your reason also. Your reason existed before the bible. And I heard this passage is translated wrongly, it could mean for ever and it could mean one aeon/one million years or so.
Since when is God influenced or limited by mankind's fickle feelings and sensibilities?
The opinions expressed here ignore the fact that God destroyed millions of mankind in a flood; men, women, old, young, children, infants by water.
God destroyed thousands of mankind; men, women, old, young, children, infants by fire.
God told Israel to enter Canaan and destroy 1000s men, women, old, young, children, infants by the sword.
Paul died daily, crucified with Christ.
Lest a grain of wheat fall to the ground and die, how can it grow and bring forth fruit?
And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them. (Rev 14:13)
Death is the sine qua non of life in Christ. Hence 'the death of death in the death of Christ' as John Owen wrote. And when death is defeated, what remains? It's life, and to the full. So the good news of the eschaton is that life triumphs, and God will be all in all.
Are you explaining or reproving the verse I cannot tell.
Just showing a bit more as to the treatment of death in scripture. Die to self, live to Christ. And that's the second death in Rev 21. We know this because the nations, presumably thrown into the fire at the GWT judgment as unbelievers, later emerge repentant in Rev 21:24 and for healing in Rev 22:2.
You completely lost me
Ultimately, everyone gets saved through Christ, just as God has promised throughout scripture, and sealed in holy blood at Calvary. Good news, glad tidings of great joy for all mankind!
Ok I understand a little better, you are a universalist.
Is there any sense otherwise?
I was there before long ago, all my freinds were, they meant well, but after some years of examining it I never came to the same conclusion and some of them have changed their minds back.
So I do understand
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